With all that I read like negative points about the version c8.5, I quite simply did not make the upgrade…
I don't need it, what Genesis have moreover than Generation 4 ?
It is necessary to also say that I'm not a purchaser of items DAZ, I builds the maximum myself either uses free objects from ShareCG or Renderosity.
The majority of my commercial objects come from Poser or are included in Carrara.
I prefer to await a possible version 9, but if it not include, for example, the dynamic clothing simulation (animated), or an improvement of the particles system, I' ll be not either interested…
I'm not on the forums since a long time, but if I read what you written, the solution would be that another company repurchases Carrara ?

Quote - With all that I read like negative points about the version c8.5, I quite simply did not make the upgrade…
I don't need it, what Genesis have moreover than Generation 4 ?

Easy versatility and autofit. ya it works poorly in C8.5 but the truth is it works about as well as it does in Studio  ; sands the CMS prerquisit. I can dress Genesis in virtually any mil3/4 clothes for pratically any character. Even though I have to do it in Studio and why I am consistently aggitated that DAZ hasn't fix it in C8.5. {Fixed as in works as well with G2F/M and with out the CMS requirement.}

More over in Studio I can easily fix autofit issues by simply sending to Hex2.5 and fixing it lol C8.5 wont let you fix it.

Quote -
It is necessary to also say that I'm not a purchaser of items DAZ, I builds the maximum myself either uses free objects from ShareCG or Renderosity.

If that is what you like doing. I worked that way 10 years ago. Still make things for scenes when I can't find what I want. But why cut up food with a small knife when I have a food processer? Shopping at DAZ for content to use in carrara suports carrara; maybe, not even sure DAZ takes in to account what app you are buying the contnet to use in. But it's certainly not like DAZ has done much aside from giving me refunds, to make me feel like a valued customer; think about it. DAZ is more whiling to give me my money back then retain me as a customer.

Quote -
The majority of my commercial objects come from Poser or are included in Carrara.
I prefer to await a possible version 9, but if it not include, for example, the dynamic clothing simulation (animated), or an improvement of the particles system, I' ll be not either interested…

To date I haven't heard anything about what might possibly be in C9. May be little more then what C8.5 was promissed to be.

Quote -
I'm not on the forums since a long time, but if I read what you written, the solution would be that another company repurchases Carrara ?

Don't see it happening. DAZ would rather it wither on the vine then have some other company pick it and become compatition.

DAZ has hidden a light under a basket, and let it go out.

aH Daz let the basket go out? Again? Needs more petrol....  :)

"It' Books by david, no I didnt see 'it'coming :)

Quote - aH Daz let the basket go out? Again? Needs more petrol....  :)

"It' Books by david, no I didnt see 'it'coming :)

Man, you better watch 'it'. You could step in 'it'. You don't want 'it' all over your shoes. You could put 'it' in that basket, though.

I'm out, I just can't do this any more. I'm weary of this battle with DAZ, I'm sick of fighting to try to get a scene staged, I'm fed up with wating for DAZ to fix something, I'm tired of spending money just to turn around and get a refund.

I just do not want to do this any more. I can thank DAZ for killing my artistic interests. This is suposed to be enjoyable but it has gotten far to frustrating to be enjoyed.

Mans tan, stick around, have fun like the rest of us, daz doesn't really exist except in our minds, they are just an artificial construct written by the guy who wrote do androids dream of electric sheep,  you are fighting something that doesn't exist, just make art and post it here so we can learn from it, 

cheers from here !

Quote - Mans tan, stick around, have fun like the rest of us, daz doesn't really exist except in our minds, they are just an artificial construct written by the guy who wrote do androids dream of electric sheep,  you are fighting something that doesn't exist, just make art and post it here so we can learn from it, 

 

cheers from here !

Well said!

thanks :)

yes you cant fight something that doesnt exist,

well you can never win, but then again, you can never lose - except within your own mind :)

Quote - I'm out, I just can't do this any more. I'm weary of this battle with DAZ, I'm sick of fighting to try to get a scene staged, I'm fed up with wating for DAZ to fix something, I'm tired of spending money just to turn around and get a refund. I just do not want to do this any more. I can thank DAZ for killing my artistic interests. This is suposed to be enjoyable but it has gotten far to frustrating to be enjoyed.

Hang in there Stan.

Daz is frustrating a LOT of us these days.

Don't let them grind you down.

"I just do not want to do this any more. I can thank DAZ for killing my artistic interests. This is suposed to be enjoyable but it has gotten far to frustrating to be enjoyed."

If it's any consolation I feel exactly the same, have done for many, many years.  I think the main problem is the way these software companies are structured.  It's just not conductive to a healthy product and it seems there are no laws against the sheer incompetence the purchasers have to put up with regards bugs in a software product because I know of no other industry where a company can charge for a product and not deliver what was advertised, in full working order.

The only way to avoid it is to go back to traditional media; draw, paint, airbrush or whatever, and you'll even have a physical peice of art to show for it.  No companies, no manipulation, no file format restrictions, no bugs, no compatibility to worry about.  Draw, and the only thing you need to concern yourself with is sharpening your pencil.

Although I still mess around with 3D, I've already gone back to drawing traditionally now and then, started slowly getting back into it a while back.  I reached your current level of unbearable dismay a long time ago.  You're so right, and I know for a fact that these companies destroy artistic passion because they well and truly destroyed mine for every waking moment I was dependent upon their products.

As you would expect, creativity is reignited since getting back into traditional media - in fact it never left.

But you'll never drop 3D no matter how pissed-off you get with the software vendors.  Trust me, pick up a pencil and draw, and if you can't draw, learn to draw, visit YouTube and you'll discover it's actually the 3D market that is the minority, traditional still rules and there's masses of stuff out there on YouTube and the web teaching it.  Having something else to keep you occupied means that you can take it all in your stride, they can't effect you because you're not dependent upon their product anymore.

If this were a few years back, I'd very likely be mouthing-off about the state of Carrara, but because I'm back into the traditional stuff, I couldn't care less.  The reason I couldn't care less is because my creativity isn't at the mercy of a company anymore.  If inspiration strikes, I pick up a pencil.  Nothing, no company and no person can stop me.

It's their product, Stan, and they'll either sort their programs out or will go out of business eventually because people will only stand for a finite level of instability and problems.  The dumbest company of all is the one that thinks it can treat customers to bug ridden software when there are free alternatives out there that actually work

It's like tsarist said, don't let them grind you down.  They got me down, they even turned me into a whiner.  I'm a totally different person since I started using forums, because although I've made friends over the years I feel like I've been subjected to a massive wave of stress that should never have existed.  It's been a constant struggle to either get the tool I want, to have it do what it's supposed to do - and both.

It ain't ever gonna happen mate, and the only thing that'll ever result in all of this for both you (and I) is that eventually we'll be banned from the communities we like being a part of.  Already neither of us can visit DAZ anymore, but the fact that our tempers are the result of their own incompetence, has no bearing in any of it, and it never will.

Companies hate being told what epic failures they are, it never did go down well.

Visit a forum for 3D software and you'll notice the topics are almost entirely about bugs and problems and how to get something to work.  It's a rarity these days for it to be about "art" or "creativity".  Visit a forum for traditional media though, and you'll find yourself transformed into another world.  It's all about art and creativity because none of that other crap exists in the world of traditional media.

See what I mean?

Well I give up on Carrara and Daz now, the thread I started over there can rot for all I care, I tried to help, tried to get things moving, but in the end no one wanted to get off their ass and do anything, so they can stay with a broken app.

Last time I try to help a "community"

Here in Belgium, we always says “we cannot make drink an ass which is not thirsty!”.
Personally, I'm follower of Carrara since version 1 and when I see the other 3D programs as they evolve, I believe that, when my film in progress will be finished, I will see the competition (certainly not DAZ Studio)…
You do something usefull, it is well and I'm sure that DAZ takes into account the interventions on your thread, but why this silence ???
It would be quite pleasant to share the problems with them!

Daz has unsticked the thread over at Daz as they say you have to go through the Zen Desk, I am done with Daz, I will continue to use Carrara as I have just bought Octane, other than that Daz will not be getting any of my cash

I think that if it is unsticked it will be more visible, with the condition to feeding it regularly.
I never think to looking at the threads with the yellow files and I'm certainly not alone!

Quote - Daz has unsticked the thread over at Daz as they say you have to go through the Zen Desk, I am done with Daz, I will continue to use Carrara as I have just bought Octane, other than that Daz will not be getting any of my cash

dont worry, it was a good try

I didnt contribute because I dont use 8.5 though I own it. - so I had nothing to say!

Daz can go F themselfs now, they have removed many posts I made pointing out the flaws, and rather than address them, they just removed the posts, and gave BS reasons, typical Daz.

The way they treat their so called customers is disgusting, and has left me very hostile towards a company I liked, guess I now know how Stan feels :p

Maybe I should go back to Poser, at least that works

Hi, the wonderful thing is, when you make a post , subsribers to the thread get an email withe post, but when we go there there is an offer to log in, that way we get to reaf the post, and see it has been censored..... Until you get banned that is. Daz is about  making money. You are hurting their income. Its their cricket bat, they make the rules .... On their forum anyways...  Sorry about the typos.... Just make the use of their rules. Its like the matrix, if you get my meaning.

Oh don't worry, I took the Mod's to task for removing a whole post that had a few good ideas in, and advised them that in order to be better mod's it would be best for them to edit the parts of the post that so say break the ToS, and marking it as edited, instead of removing it completely, but if this is how Daz wants to be then they can kiss my behind

DAZ knows I am a rabel rouser, I have freely admitted to it. But you can't rouse an apithetic rabel. We live in a generation of apithy, people are quicker to make excuses for bad application development, then do anything about it. It is all too common in video game players.

I, as well as quite a few here, are old enough to remember what a united people could do to change a company's polices.  But this generation lacks the comitment it takes to change things. As I have said on a few game forums; what? You think I'm different else where? If 75% of the regular players did not log in for 24-48 hours, they would have the developers undivided attantion Wont ever happen.

To get DAZ to do something; even if it's make a statement, you couldn't reach enough carraraests that would commit to an act, with out usings DAZ's carrara forum. I'll toss out off the top of my head numbers and say only 10-15% of carraraests read this forum. Less for the carraracafe. There are other carrara forums but they are about dead. So it would be rather difficult to reach enough carraraests.

I don't know, in order to even try to do something you would have to find a way to reach all carraraests, and a place to meet/chat on line. And you would have to have the heavy hitters of carrara onboard.

Now I have no credability with the big dogs; can't say I blame them. But in order to get DAZ's attantion, you will need at least 3/4 of carraraests commited to doing something, and do it.

{nope, this part stepped over the line, thought better of it in the proof read}

This generation or any other have nothing to do with it, I think they just understand that Daz couldnt give a crap about them so why bother, I really did like Daz and wanted to try and help them out, but after this, and the lack of help from the so called community, I will not bother again, and I would advise anyonme thinking of doing something in reguards to Carrara to seriously leave me out of it, I will limp on with 8.1 for now, removed 8.5 due to the immence bugginess of it, and see where my Art takes me, but after all this I am one step away from leaving it and finding something else to do as a hobby

Quote - This generation or any other have nothing to do with it, I think they just understand that Daz couldnt give a crap about them so why bother, I really did like Daz and wanted to try and help them out, but after this, and the lack of help from the so called community, I will not bother again, and I would advise anyonme thinking of doing something in reguards to Carrara to seriously leave me out of it, I will limp on with 8.1 for now, removed 8.5 due to the immence bugginess of it, and see where my Art takes me, but after all this I am one step away from leaving it and finding something else to do as a hobby

ArtistX

I wouldn't be too harsh. A lot of us went over and supported you in the Daz forum. 

Like you, I'm disappointed in 8.5. When you can read in the forums that one person says it's great and they have no problem, the next guy says it's crap and doesn't work for damn, that should raise a massive red flag at Daz HQ.

Genesis SHOULD work right out of the box for damned near everyone. Daz bet the farm on Carrara, created a rift between Poser community and DS community (compatibility wise) and made Carrara less stable than it has been in awhile (I never had trouble with C6 or C7). Genesis should work as effortlessly as V4. No weird workarounds, no "it works for me, but not for you" rubbish.

Anyhow, stick with us ArtistX.

I think it is just frustration and anger atm, plus I have a few medical issues to deal with which aren't helping, but my mind is made up with Daz, apart from the odd Howie Fawkes scene as and when one comes out, that will be the only thing I get from there, clothes and other stuff I will not buy as its for the Genesis crap, which doesnt work in any program other than DS, so I won't waste my time or money on it.

Might be able to save up for Octane for Poser and the Enhance C plugin by not buying all the other junk I used to, about the only plus side I can see :p

Quote - Daz bet the farm on Carrara, created a rift between Poser community and DS community (compatibility wise)

THIS SHOULD HAVE READ

**
**Daz bet the farm on Genesis, created a rift between Poser community and DS community (compatibility wise)

sorry, the edit button vanished on me.

More censorship from the Daz mods, Daz really doesn't like it when you point out a few home truths do they :D

Here is the post they have "temporarily removed for review"

Cristina Galloway, Oct 07 14:38:

I apologize for the inconvenience. Unfortunately, there isn't much I can do.

The developers are well aware that there are Carrara customers waiting for a new release. I can relay your message, however; you message will be heard by more using the forums (censored or not).

Please let me know if there is anything else I can assist you with.

Thanks,
Crissie

Which is ironic, when you show how displeased you are with Daz they remove your post's - :D

Here, it is the proof that DAZ has like absolute rule : “not to communicate with the users”!
I would have hoped that it stays only a commercial tactic, but obviously, it's not the case…

ArtistX

Sorry you got posts removed.

I think they remove a percentage of my posts as Standard Operating Procedure.

I tried to "play nice" and post kittens and rainbows, but a few Dazzers who knew me called me out on it (via PM) because my posts then meant nothing.

So, I post every so often, but not much. 

I'm too busy anyway.

I am done with Daz, I now see all they care about are the people who drink their kool aid, use Genesis, and use the toy program that is Daz Studio.

Oh and the final insult is that they have deleted my "Help" request, where I pointed out a few things and told them I would no longer be a customer while they treated people like dirt, so they have shown themselves to be excatly what I said in my posts and emails.

I would post an official complaint to the "help desk" and their forum, but see little point as the nazi mods would remove it and the help desk would delete it again.

For those of you still holding out hope I would give up, seems Daz has made itself loud and clear on Carrara

I refuse to give up on Carrara, but I gave up on DAZ long ago.

Good news Manley :)

Good to see you back!

Consider banging your head against a brick wall, who gets hurt? The bRick wall or your head? 

Walk away from the brick wall and at least one of you will be better off :) 

The silence from DAZ about C9 is defening. It's my opinion DAZ is trying to figure out some way to get out of developing carrara with out losing carraraests as customers.

Even Studio; which may be updated once and a while, is far past it's time for a new build. Studio 4 is the longest running build of studio so far.

As I have said DAZ is little more then a content broker any more, the biggest profit from the least work or expence.

Ignoring customers is no way to keep their busness.

Too late to add this to above. When I saw it I about busted a gut laughing. Carrara hasn't had an update since release over a year ago lol http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/47406/

latest version

I did reply to that thread but yet again the daz nazi's (mods) removed my post for telling people the truth

 IamArtistX, We have removed a post that you made to the "Latest version of Carrara 8.5 Pro" tread for being both an attack and pure speculation. You have made several posts of this nature recently and so we give you warning that if this sort of Posting behaviour continues we will have no option but to temporarily suspend your posting privileges

My Reply

Sorry but it is bassed on what I have seen and have had done to me by daz, we all know daz doesnt like the facts being told to the masses so do what ever you like as this proves my point excatly, you silence people, I have used C8.5 since it was beta so when I say it was slapped together i know that foir a fact as I BETA TESTED IT.

Please show me where my post was an attack, and please show me how it was speculation when daz THEMSELVES have said they are more interested in being a BROKERAGE, they have said it in the forums.

They say the truth hurts, and you may be able to silence me on the daz forums, but you can silence me everywhere

So now I am 100% done with them, this is how they treat "customers" like crap just because some of us have the guts to stand up to them

Quote - I did reply to that thread but yet again the daz nazi's (mods) removed my post for telling people the truth

 IamArtistX, We have removed a post that you made to the "Latest version of Carrara 8.5 Pro" tread for being both an attack and pure speculation. You have made several posts of this nature recently and so we give you warning that if this sort of Posting behaviour continues we will have no option but to temporarily suspend your posting privileges

This is the reason I don't post over there very often. They yank down posts at whim and it really keeps us from having an honest discussion.

I got PMs from people who supported my posts back when people were upset about the new "PC Club +". The only posts that didn't get yanked down or shouted down were Pro Higher prices.

I'm spending what money I do have over here at Rendo for the most part.

Yup, DAZ will surely ban you for telling the truth and then call it speculation. It's not wild speculation if it is based in fact and holds true over time. And assumptions don't seem so unfounded when they become facts.

I'm not worried about it. I'm just setting here eating popcorn watching long time DAZ customers leave DAZ. Watching the quality of the DAZ galleries go down as the most talented render artist move on.{my holloween renders "night nurse" and "Sister Vivian{?}, goblin slayer" will be postsed to my gallery here}

DAZ's only options now are a 3; going on 4, year old version of Studio; which is the last version of Studio developed by the origenal DAZ crew. And Carrara 8.5; which the same could be said of {C8.5 was in production when that online avatar company bought out DAZ}.

And that is when things started going horrably wrong at DAZ. Ya, I had issues with the way DAZ has done things since I was conscripted with Carrara 5, but it went from aggrivating to infuriating when that new company took over. And DAZ has done no real application development since. All they have done is some updates to Studio and slapped a few bandaids on the C8.5 beta and called it a realese version. {Then took a big step back from thier promised release pricing, and wondered why people weren't grabbing the crappy end of the stick they were offered}.

I'm sure most will agree that I am one of the most stubborn men they have ever met, and I have given up on DAZ.

When you make it all about the profit it is nolonger about the customers, and as such, costs you long term customers. People will eventually get fed up with the crap and move on.

I have given up on Daz, I pointed out to the mods in the email I sent that it was not an attack or speculation as i beta tested C8 and C8.5 so i was fully aware of what Daz had done to it, so when I said it was a mismash i was speaking from expeience, they have yet to respond to my request explaining how having beta tested i could speculate on it being a mish mash.

I aslo asked them to prove it was speculation or an attack when i said daz didnt care about its customers, as they never bothered in over 3 months with the thread I made, and the fact i am hearing how disgusted people are with the way daz has treated them.

I still havent had a response nor do i expect to, as I know they cannot prove either, yet what they have accused me of is excatly the thing they are doing to me, attacking and speculating as to why I am saying what i am.

So F**K Daz - I hope they go bust

Quote - Yup, DAZ will surely ban you for telling the truth and then call it speculation. It's not wild speculation if it is based in fact and holds true over time. And assumptions don't seem so unfounded when they become facts. I'm not worried about it. I'm just setting here eating popcorn watching long time DAZ customers leave DAZ.

Yeah, that's the funny part. There were a LOT of people posting back during the PC Club "Plus" debacle saying the new club was rubbish. Then those posts would vanish and Daz would say how all but a few were discontented losers and the club was the best thing ever.

These were LONGTIME PC Club members speaking out.

If the new PC Club was so good, why bar people from being able to go back to PC Club original?

Why get rid of the opposing views?

Why did the new club get snuck in and forced on us without warning?

Daz didn't like my questions and deleted them.

Sad

Need to start typing it as "DA$"

Attached Link: Shade 3D ver 14 Professional

Shade Pro is on special now until 11/01/2014 for $199, even without the crossgrade.

Quote - > Quote - For anyone who might be interested, Shade3D Pro is on sale right now, and you can crossgrade from Carrara for $199. This was posted over in the Poser Forum, and thought someone here might be interested.

Shades interface is much different than Carrara's (I don't get along with it very well), but it has some great features, and could make a good companion tool to Carrara, especially if you have Poser Pro (Poser Fusion).

Shade Pro is on special now until 11/01/2014 for $199, even without the crossgrade.

So, it's $199 either way? Or does the crossgrade come in even lower than the sale price? Just curious.

wow, new forum look here. But does it function better.

Hey, my spell checker works now, so that is a hugantic improvement lol

Oh my got, the renderosity forum has stepped up to the 21st century. O.O

Argh!, Lost one thread.

Ok, I guess I need a tutorial on how to post a thread with this new forum software. I've had 3 vanish after posting.

Ok, I give up, I just can not post a new thread. That is 4 times it looked like I was starting a new thread which just does not make it to the forum.

You didn't know that you were censured here too ?

You didn't know that you were censured here too ?

No I'm not censured here lol The new forum software is screwing up. or there is some button some place I need to click to post new thread to the forum and I ain't finding it. ok, I feegurditout.

Was reading the DAZ carrara forum; like the work diomede64 is doing. I will refrain from  comments about other forumites.

But to respond to diomede64 post on "Best practices? using genesis and genesis 2 content in Carrara" Why ask why? Why did DAZ include geographte parts as part of the the C8.5 freebies when DAZ knew good and well they didn't work? Why did DAZ break modeling in the assembly room so fixing poke though wasn't as easy as it was for the mil 4 figures? Why hasn't DAZ done anything to fix C8.5 issues with DAZ content in 2 years? Why hasn't DAZ updated C8.5 so it can use the new poses/morphs for Genesis and G2F/M?

Don't drive yourself nuts asking why, you wont ever get an explanation.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/49208/

Hex works just fine on my W8.1 machine. Carrara can model but not near as well as Hex, in my opinion.

Carrara is compatible with Daz figures up to gen 4 and poser figures up to Poser 8.{no you can't work with genesis or G2F/M in the modeling room in C8.5}

That is a question we all want answered, but DAZ has never been good about advertising carrara and why us carraraest have always felt like second class DA$ customers.

Don't think because there is a beta DAZ is actually fixing carrara, it's just an update so it works with DAZ's latest customer leash. And has broken a lot of things.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/49609/

Normal maps are 3D bump maps and only work in the bump channel when you select to use a normal map in it; bump just gives height normal gives angles. Normals are just a color map in any other channel.