If I'm understanding this right, Genesis 3 is a unimesh figure on which all of their current line of characters are based...V7, Eva 7, Josie 7, etc.

It seems like Genesis 1 you could mix Victoria 1, 2, 3, 4 and all of their varietal characters no problemo, and all of their hair, clothes, props, textures went along for the ride.

Now, with Genesis 3, each character is quasi-proprietary? Meaning what works for Eva may not work for Karen? Am I understanding this correctly? Each of these new character packs have an entirely new UV mapping so the textures are not interchangeable???

That seems crazy to me....I understand the need for different grouping, perhaps, or different joint parameters/weight mapping...but it's supposed to be a unimesh, yes? So why on earth screw with the UVs???

Please let me know if I am all pear-shaped on this as my new found enthusiasm Is fading fast and I'd hate to fade due to a simple error on my part.

There is one base figure - Genesis, Genesis 2 Female, Genesis 2 Male, and now Genesis 3 Female - for each line. The geometry and rigging is in that though joint centres can be adjusted for different shapes.

The UV set is a surface property, so they can just be swapped out by material presets or by the user in the Surface pane. The different base characters have, as they did with Genesis and the Genesis 2 figures, their own UVs to avoid any stretching but there's nothing to stop people using a different texture set, with a different UV set, on them - or even using different UVs on different surfaces, though aside from eyes and teeth there would be few occasions that was desirable (perhaps for face and make-up on the head and second skin gloves or monster skin on the hands or legs, with clothes hiding the join). G3F does have a new split into surfaces, meaning that old textures can't be applied via a UV set, however (as with the move from Victoria 3 to Victoria 4) - we are all hoping for something like the old texture Converter to address that.

Clothing can generally be autofitted - at worst from older generations (four is supported out-of-the-box) to Genesis then from Genesis to G2 then from G2 to G3 - though there are clone shapes for G3F (and G2F/M) in the store to allow a more direct conversion. Morphs can be converted with GenX 2, though G3 support is not yet available (I think the author is planning an upgraded version when G3M is out).

V4 was a base character. Other Generation 4 characters were morphs of V4.

For Generation 7, Genesis 3 is the base character and is free, although the morph packs to create a variety of features is not free. Victoria 7, Eva 7, Karen 7 ... are custom morphs of the Genesis 3 base. These DAZ characters each have custom UVs for their skin. These UVs are suppose to be optimized for their body shape. I can see this with an extreme body shape, but the benefit with the normal body shapes is modest. In any event if you purchase Victora 7, then you can use the Victoria 7 skin on any Genesis 3 based character shape. You can use the Victoria 7 UVs on Eva or Karen body shapes, even though the skins for those characters use different UVs.

While Victoria 4 only supported one UV set, Genesis 1, 2 and 3 all have multiple UV support. Genesis 3 comes with support for the Genesis 3 base female UVs. If you purchase Victoria 7, you get V7 UV support on any Genesis 3 character shape. Now the only skin I know of that uses the Victoria 7 UVs is the Victoria 7 skin. Even the other characters that come in the Victoria 7 bundles all use the Genesis 3 base female UVs. For generation 7, characters that require Victoria 7 means they use the Victoria 7 body shape morph as part of the body shape. If you do not own Victoria 7, you can still load the character. There will probably be an error about missing Victoria 7 morphs and the body shape will be different. The skin will work because it uses the base female UVs.

In generation 5 and 6 this was not always true. Some other characters that said they required Victoria 5 or 6, used the Victoria 5 or 6 UVs. You could not load the skin correctly unless you had the Victoria 5 or 6 characters. As far as I know PAs have stopped doing this in generation 7, but it is always possible that a character will be released in the future that uses the Victoria 7 UVs.

Ug, it is as I feared. Quite a labyrinth. I suppose if the end result is "better" than I can't fault them.

Think of it as DS being able to apply a .uvs file on the fly, but only within the existing material zones. But as markht says, most texture sets will use the default UVs anyway as a lot of users value flexibility over the last word in unstretchiness (a lot of us treat characters as resource packs to be split into texture and morph sets, not necessarily used together).

Couple of related questions, also new to Studio.

I've noticed that some characters show at the base level of the appropriate character directory branch, e.g. genesis 3 female, and have an icon. I can import the complete character from that file at that level. However, some characters don't have this top level file and rely on the 'morph' etc. in a named sub-directory. Is there a way to add such a top level file to these to make them show at the same level as the rest?

Additionally, some characters, e.g. Victoria 7, have their materials in a separate sub folder outside of their character sub folder whereas others just put everything in the character folder. I assume this is just down to how the vendor has decided to 'pack' their character and there is nothing stopping me re-organising them manually to follow the same format?

Same sort of thing with some hair and pose packages - they get installed as sub folders of a character rather than at a higher, global level. Again, I assume this is just down to the particular package and there is nothing stopping me re-organising where they actually sit in the folder hierarchy to tidy things up and reduce things being split up in different folders?

Thanks.

Magic_Man posted at 12:37PM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229791

Couple of related questions, also new to Studio.

I've noticed that some characters show at the base level of the appropriate character directory branch, e.g. genesis 3 female, and have an icon. I can import the complete character from that file at that level. However, some characters don't have this top level file and rely on the 'morph' etc. in a named sub-directory. Is there a way to add such a top level file to these to make them show at the same level as the rest?

Additionally, some characters, e.g. Victoria 7, have their materials in a separate sub folder outside of their character sub folder whereas others just put everything in the character folder. I assume this is just down to how the vendor has decided to 'pack' their character and there is nothing stopping me re-organising them manually to follow the same format?

Same sort of thing with some hair and pose packages - they get installed as sub folders of a character rather than at a higher, global level. Again, I assume this is just down to the particular package and there is nothing stopping me re-organising where they actually sit in the folder hierarchy to tidy things up and reduce things being split up in different folders?

Thanks.

I am not sure why DAZ has not standardized some of this organization, but these inconsistencies you point out have been there for years.

While it is possible to move things around, you have to know what you are doing. Some files can be moved and some cannot. Also, if you start moving files around, then the Daz Install Manager (DIM) will get confused. DAZ does regularly send out up updates to fix problems with content. If you have moved your content around, DIM will not be able to update it correctly.

What I have done is use Categories in the Content Pane (not smart content) to create my own organization. Stuff from the DAZ store usually comes with default categories, which is the organization you see in smart content also. I created my own top level category and created my organization under it. By creating my own top level category, DAZ will not mess with it. I tried re-organizing the default categories, but that was hopeless, because every time I installed something new, it screwed things up again.

The category data is saved in a data base along with the smart content information. You can organize things how ever you like. In DAZ older poser items are organized totally differently than the newer DAZ studio content, but I have both Poser format and DAZ format content in a single organization.

It is a lot of work to organize all your content every time you buy something, but I could never find anything until I did.

Thanks for the reply.

You could also load a character and save a Character preset to the folder you wanted, or at the file-system level you could create a shortcut (Windows) or alias (Mac) pointing to the file and place it where you want - those will then show in the Content Library pane under the various ... Formats headings..

Good idea, much thanks

thanks for nice reading. I find that genesis has very complex constructure when it is done by uv tool,so sometimes uv tool read it very slowly and sometimes uv tool shutted off when loaded genesis obj. and I used blender to do genesis that it is rather a tough job.Because genesis has complex topology so that some distort comes out.And when it is be loaded into uv tool that said topology was wrong. But I want to say genesis is a really mankind ,though it is 3d model..

"So why on earth screw with the UVs???"

I've asked a time or two, and made comments about the multiple UV types; they seem to be to make money, and serve no other useful function.

Often, a character based off of a particular UV set works fine without; this means if you don't want to buy the new character (eg: Eva 7, Josie 7), but did want to buy one of the character's based on those, it would work; Daz offers refunds so if it didn't work you could return it. I've bought characters based on a particular one, but it shows as being Base Female; one such example is Camile HD for Bethany 7; states she requires Bethany 7, yet uses Base Female UVs not Bethany 7, although she uses some of the morphs, these could be manually dialled in, to approximate if Bethany wasn't owned. So it is misleading imo. So it uses the character morphs, not always the UVs.

thanks but where can be finded a free morpher maker software and uv that is nice. so that it makes v6,7,8,9,etc,which is easy done.

Writers_Block posted at 10:14AM Thu, 01 October 2015 - #4231673

"So why on earth screw with the UVs???"

I've asked a time or two, and made comments about the multiple UV types; they seem to be to make money, and serve no other useful function.

Often, a character based off of a particular UV set works fine without; this means if you don't want to buy the new character (eg: Eva 7, Josie 7), but did want to buy one of the character's based on those, it would work; Daz offers refunds so if it didn't work you could return it. I've bought characters based on a particular one, but it shows as being Base Female; one such example is Camile HD for Bethany 7; states she requires Bethany 7, yet uses Base Female UVs not Bethany 7, although she uses some of the morphs, these could be manually dialled in, to approximate if Bethany wasn't owned. So it is misleading imo. So it uses the character morphs, not always the UVs.

In principal the different UVs are suppose to allow skins to fit the body shape of each character better without stretch marks on the skin. You can really see stretch marks when you use a skin with lots of freckles, but none of the DAZ characters have a skin with freckles or other features on the skin that make is easy to see stretching. I have some skin textures with lots of freckles, mostly V4 skins, but one is a V5 texture that uses V5 UVs. You can see some stretching with those skins on extreme body shapes, but with most skins, people don't notice the stretching.

In generation 7 it seems most PAs that create characters are using the Base Female UVs for all characters, even the characters that come in the bundles. So the only character that uses V7 UVs is V7 herself. Likewise for Eva, Bethany and Karen. I don't know about the younger characters, Josie, ect. Different UVs make more sense for child characters or the highly stylized characters.

In generations 5 & 6 there were characters created by PA that used the V5 or V6 UVs, but I have not seen any using V7 UVs. That could change, but I think the PAs have gotten the message that people prefer characters on the base UVs and don't mind a little stretching of the skin, since it is difficult to see anyway.

markht posted at 5:54AM Fri, 02 October 2015 - #4231871

Writers_Block posted at 10:14AM Thu, 01 October 2015 - #4231673

"So why on earth screw with the UVs???"

I've asked a time or two, and made comments about the multiple UV types; they seem to be to make money, and serve no other useful function.

Often, a character based off of a particular UV set works fine without; this means if you don't want to buy the new character (eg: Eva 7, Josie 7), but did want to buy one of the character's based on those, it would work; Daz offers refunds so if it didn't work you could return it. I've bought characters based on a particular one, but it shows as being Base Female; one such example is Camile HD for Bethany 7; states she requires Bethany 7, yet uses Base Female UVs not Bethany 7, although she uses some of the morphs, these could be manually dialled in, to approximate if Bethany wasn't owned. So it is misleading imo. So it uses the character morphs, not always the UVs.

In principal the different UVs are suppose to allow skins to fit the body shape of each character better without stretch marks on the skin. You can really see stretch marks when you use a skin with lots of freckles, but none of the DAZ characters have a skin with freckles or other features on the skin that make is easy to see stretching. I have some skin textures with lots of freckles, mostly V4 skins, but one is a V5 texture that uses V5 UVs. You can see some stretching with those skins on extreme body shapes, but with most skins, people don't notice the stretching.

In generation 7 it seems most PAs that create characters are using the Base Female UVs for all characters, even the characters that come in the bundles. So the only character that uses V7 UVs is V7 herself. Likewise for Eva, Bethany and Karen. I don't know about the younger characters, Josie, ect. Different UVs make more sense for child characters or the highly stylized characters.

In generations 5 & 6 there were characters created by PA that used the V5 or V6 UVs, but I have not seen any using V7 UVs. That could change, but I think the PAs have gotten the message that people prefer characters on the base UVs and don't mind a little stretching of the skin, since it is difficult to see anyway.

Actually I don't think that's the message. If you're referring to those vendors that quickly put out characters, they're using the base UV not because they hear the customer, but they aren't creating that resource from scratch. Thus you're probably paying for the same resource over and over.

If someone is targeting the UV a character then they are creating the texture from scratch to match that character and most likely getting a higher quality and unique texture; but it's a crapshoot depending on how popular that characters is. Except for V7, what you would think is popular in the forums wasn't in sales especially any ethnic characters. Personally I would target V7 as the UV as the body shapes vary much more between the base and V7 than V7 and the other characters based from G3F, except for Bethany and Josie (done by PAs), as one modeler does the architecture of the generation and the other does the characters based on it.

Male_M3dia posted at 7:52PM Fri, 02 October 2015 - #4231947

markht posted at 5:54AM Fri, 02 October 2015 - #4231871

Writers_Block posted at 10:14AM Thu, 01 October 2015 - #4231673

"So why on earth screw with the UVs???"

I've asked a time or two, and made comments about the multiple UV types; they seem to be to make money, and serve no other useful function.

Often, a character based off of a particular UV set works fine without; this means if you don't want to buy the new character (eg: Eva 7, Josie 7), but did want to buy one of the character's based on those, it would work; Daz offers refunds so if it didn't work you could return it. I've bought characters based on a particular one, but it shows as being Base Female; one such example is Camile HD for Bethany 7; states she requires Bethany 7, yet uses Base Female UVs not Bethany 7, although she uses some of the morphs, these could be manually dialled in, to approximate if Bethany wasn't owned. So it is misleading imo. So it uses the character morphs, not always the UVs.

In principal the different UVs are suppose to allow skins to fit the body shape of each character better without stretch marks on the skin. You can really see stretch marks when you use a skin with lots of freckles, but none of the DAZ characters have a skin with freckles or other features on the skin that make is easy to see stretching. I have some skin textures with lots of freckles, mostly V4 skins, but one is a V5 texture that uses V5 UVs. You can see some stretching with those skins on extreme body shapes, but with most skins, people don't notice the stretching.

In generation 7 it seems most PAs that create characters are using the Base Female UVs for all characters, even the characters that come in the bundles. So the only character that uses V7 UVs is V7 herself. Likewise for Eva, Bethany and Karen. I don't know about the younger characters, Josie, ect. Different UVs make more sense for child characters or the highly stylized characters.

In generations 5 & 6 there were characters created by PA that used the V5 or V6 UVs, but I have not seen any using V7 UVs. That could change, but I think the PAs have gotten the message that people prefer characters on the base UVs and don't mind a little stretching of the skin, since it is difficult to see anyway.

Actually I don't think that's the message. If you're referring to those vendors that quickly put out characters, they're using the base UV not because they hear the customer, but they aren't creating that resource from scratch. Thus you're probably paying for the same resource over and over.

If someone is targeting the UV a character then they are creating the texture from scratch to match that character and most likely getting a higher quality and unique texture; but it's a crapshoot depending on how popular that characters is. Except for V7, what you would think is popular in the forums wasn't in sales especially any ethnic characters. Personally I would target V7 as the UV as the body shapes vary much more between the base and V7 than V7 and the other characters based from G3F, except for Bethany and Josie (done by PAs), as one modeler does the architecture of the generation and the other does the characters based on it.

@Markht too. That is good to know, but to be a really valid reason, wouldn't the body shape have to be dramatically different? Seeing as most are not, then the reason must be for something else? It would also make sense to make it a marketting ploy, if indeed it was accurate; all I've had happen is have posts removed. In addition, as texture sizes increase, won't this make the affects of stretching less noticeable?

Writers_Block posted at 3:11PM Fri, 02 October 2015 - #4231992

Male_M3dia posted at 7:52PM Fri, 02 October 2015 - #4231947

markht posted at 5:54AM Fri, 02 October 2015 - #4231871

Writers_Block posted at 10:14AM Thu, 01 October 2015 - #4231673

"So why on earth screw with the UVs???"

I've asked a time or two, and made comments about the multiple UV types; they seem to be to make money, and serve no other useful function.

Often, a character based off of a particular UV set works fine without; this means if you don't want to buy the new character (eg: Eva 7, Josie 7), but did want to buy one of the character's based on those, it would work; Daz offers refunds so if it didn't work you could return it. I've bought characters based on a particular one, but it shows as being Base Female; one such example is Camile HD for Bethany 7; states she requires Bethany 7, yet uses Base Female UVs not Bethany 7, although she uses some of the morphs, these could be manually dialled in, to approximate if Bethany wasn't owned. So it is misleading imo. So it uses the character morphs, not always the UVs.

In principal the different UVs are suppose to allow skins to fit the body shape of each character better without stretch marks on the skin. You can really see stretch marks when you use a skin with lots of freckles, but none of the DAZ characters have a skin with freckles or other features on the skin that make is easy to see stretching. I have some skin textures with lots of freckles, mostly V4 skins, but one is a V5 texture that uses V5 UVs. You can see some stretching with those skins on extreme body shapes, but with most skins, people don't notice the stretching.

In generation 7 it seems most PAs that create characters are using the Base Female UVs for all characters, even the characters that come in the bundles. So the only character that uses V7 UVs is V7 herself. Likewise for Eva, Bethany and Karen. I don't know about the younger characters, Josie, ect. Different UVs make more sense for child characters or the highly stylized characters.

In generations 5 & 6 there were characters created by PA that used the V5 or V6 UVs, but I have not seen any using V7 UVs. That could change, but I think the PAs have gotten the message that people prefer characters on the base UVs and don't mind a little stretching of the skin, since it is difficult to see anyway.

Actually I don't think that's the message. If you're referring to those vendors that quickly put out characters, they're using the base UV not because they hear the customer, but they aren't creating that resource from scratch. Thus you're probably paying for the same resource over and over.

If someone is targeting the UV a character then they are creating the texture from scratch to match that character and most likely getting a higher quality and unique texture; but it's a crapshoot depending on how popular that characters is. Except for V7, what you would think is popular in the forums wasn't in sales especially any ethnic characters. Personally I would target V7 as the UV as the body shapes vary much more between the base and V7 than V7 and the other characters based from G3F, except for Bethany and Josie (done by PAs), as one modeler does the architecture of the generation and the other does the characters based on it.

@Markht too. That is good to know, but to be a really valid reason, wouldn't the body shape have to be dramatically different? Seeing as most are not, then the reason must be for something else? It would also make sense to make it a marketting ploy, if indeed it was accurate; all I've had happen is have posts removed. In addition, as texture sizes increase, won't this make the affects of stretching less noticeable?

No, that's the reason, nothing sinister about it. You may not see it, but some see do. And that's the difference if you're making a quality product. If you're making the UV to go with that particular shape you want to take care of the nuances and also there's enough difference between the base and the character to warranty a UV. Also not every person buys a particular character, so a UV to go with that character makes sense. The difference is probably more noticeable between the male shapes than the females due to size and muscularity of the shape, but that just so all figures are consistent in setup in a generation.

That's said some people just buy characters just for the skin, however if vendor makes a character, they're not making so you would only buy the skin or they would just put out a merchant resource.. would be a better and more efficient use of their time.