What is H4V? Click to go the source website for it ...

It is stereo x 2. It requires a camera that can render out a four-viewpoint final file. The result: sophisticated depth on a Leia-screen enhance device. No glasses required. The first of these is about to hit the market, the Hydrogen One from red.com

There is already a plugin for Maya that can do this, but who has $190/month for Maya?

Is there such a thing as "building a custom camera in Poser?"

::::: Opera :::::

This is a complete guess, but maybe you could do it through scripting, but guess it depends on how the camera is suppose to work.

I looked at the page you linked and have to admit that I know nothing about this technology, but I got a weird feeling straight away, that something seems a bit off. I watch the trailer and it shows nothing, the only thing you see are peoples reaction to something that they see on the screen. Which obviously got me more interested to find out why exactly their main trailer doesn't show anything. So looked further and finally found another video on their site showing what they are talking about and my guess for why they don't show what people is seeing on the camera in the trailer, is most likely because its not really that amazing, Maybe you have to see what it looks like in reality, but to me, it seems more like some people desperately trying to sell a product by saying that its over the top amazingly good and trying to convince people that its the case, when it ain't. :)

This is the video im talking about where he shows all the cool stuff. Try to compare that with those people in the trailers reaction. Something doesn't really add up I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=784&v=qA5qECI9xX0

What is H4V? Click to go the source website for it ...

It is stereo x 2. It requires a camera that can render out a four-viewpoint final file. The result: sophisticated depth on a Leia-screen enhance device. No glasses required. The first of these is about to hit the market, the Hydrogen One from red.com

There is already a plugin for Maya that can do this, but who has $190/month for Maya?

Is there such a thing as "building a custom camera in Poser?"

::::: Opera :::::

Sorry, no. Poser's camera's operate on the principle of vantage points. There are four of them aiming from four different vantage points. You can create a custom camera, but it's basically just a regular camera that gives you more control of how you aim and control it.

3D-Mobster, you are welcome to your opinion, of course. However, I have two developers in a major media corporation who have the units, and they confirm the results are fantastic. They are hotly developing content for it on a show-time level. Maya, Adobe, Unity, and Android are all pouring resources into this concept.

I won't purchase the Hydrogen myself ($1300) until I prove out my content concept for it, which I am pursuing full speed ahead as we speak.

And remember, this is depth-effect ... with no glasses.

Red/Leia have constantly remarked that it is futile to show the effect of H4v on any 2D device. If this were fake, Red would lose stupendous face in Hollywood and around the world. Many films are shot on their Red cameras, and they are all the way in for high stakes. Also, there have been three tremendous failures to bring non-glasses depth-viewing to devices, and we are all aware. The critics would have no qualms about pouncing, so RED and Leia are making sure this is "a thing."

::::: Opera :::::

@ EClark1894,

Since a substitute 4-viewpoint camera (The Leia Camera) has been accomplished for Maya and Unity, I would think it could be created for Poser, but you are saying that "Poser's camera's operate on the principle of vantage points" and that means there is a fundamental barrier intrinsic to how Poser understands cameras that rule out a Leia Camera for Poser?

::::: Opera :::::

Would probably require the image/animation rendered four times with a script to position the camera for each pass and then another utility to convert to the H4v codec. Is this the only format for holograms?

Some more detail https://h4vuser.net/t/h4v-codec-details/245/18. Unity could be another approach.

Yes, I am thinking Unity, since the scene could be set up in Poser and exported for uptake into Unity. That is a proven flow. Leia's plugin for Unity looks smooth. It's just that a pipeline directly out of Poser in H4V would be one less layer.

The description of how the Leia Camera works is very cool. You see a three dimensional floating highlight called the Leia Fulstrum, for the full resolve-depth of the camera, with a convergence plan of sharp focus in blue. See attached image.

From Leia's published pdf:

LeiaCamera The LeiaCamera script component replaces the standard single Unity camera with a custom group of cameras that are automatically aligned to produce content for our displays. This array of cameras produce the individual views needed to create auto-stereoscopic content. The spacing between those cameras is called the baseline. Increasing baseline will always result in more depth/parallax, but too much baseline will produce uncomfortable and sometimes blurry images, so care must be taken so set this parameter properly.  

Leia Frustum: Leia’s SDK offers a visual guide for the depth settings in Unity: The convergence plane is drawn as a blue plane; A translucent region indicates the “safe” disparity region. Content in the Leia Frustum will have disparities bounded by a max value set at 5px by default. 

ironsoul posted at 2:50AM Fri, 26 October 2018 - #4338234

Is this the only format for holograms?<

I'm not sure how to answer that. This tech is strictly to produce a .jpg with metadata that informs LeiaScreen-supplied devices with the 4-view info. Leia tries to not use the word "hologram" because it really is not. It's just convincing depth in the output, not a hologram that appears floating like something out of R2D2.

I am sure Leia is cooperating with other 3D software products, hopefully Blender and I wish Poser. I'm going to figure out how/where to 'submit suggestions' to Smith Micro and pitch a LeiaCamera plugin for Poser.

operaguy posted at 11:20AM Fri, 26 October 2018 - #4338231

3D-Mobster, you are welcome to your opinion, of course. However, I have two developers in a major media corporation who have the units, and they confirm the results are fantastic. They are hotly developing content for it on a show-time level. Maya, Adobe, Unity, and Android are all pouring resources into this concept.

I won't purchase the Hydrogen myself ($1300) until I prove out my content concept for it, which I am pursuing full speed ahead as we speak.

And remember, this is depth-effect ... with no glasses.

Red/Leia have constantly remarked that it is futile to show the effect of H4v on any 2D device. If this were fake, Red would lose stupendous face in Hollywood and around the world. Many films are shot on their Red cameras, and they are all the way in for high stakes. Also, there have been three tremendous failures to bring non-glasses depth-viewing to devices, and we are all aware. The critics would have no qualms about pouncing, so RED and Leia are making sure this is "a thing."

::::: Opera :::::

It might look really cool in real life, which I guess will be known very quickly if it is as great as they claim. Maybe its just their promotional stuff that rubs me the wrong way. :D I hope they can pull it off and it can launch a wave of new technologies, however I wanted to be fair, so I looked for reviews and found one from a person that have seen it in action. And he doesn't really seem to impressed either and actually have the same impression that I did, that this is a bit hyped for no reason.

You can read it here if you are interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/Filmmakers/comments/8kt7by/hands_on_review_of_red_hydrogen_prototype_demo/

Anyway, you obviously have no obligation to defend it and if people think its a good product they will buy it and make it popular. But then again it doesn't really matter since you asked about cameras in Poser. :)

Does this affect require stereoscopic vision? A cyclops wants to know.

They are hotly developing content for it on a show-time level. Maya, Adobe, >Unity, and Android are all pouring resources into this >concept..

These Softwares and platforms represent either the Apex industry standard in their respective Markets or are one of the two leading standards (Unity& unreal) (Android& Apple). Typically any new content technologies wil lsupport those platforms due to the massive market penetration they would have if adopted.

Poser 11 supports FBX export IIRC so you may be better off sending your poser content to unity as it seems highly doubtful that the primary maker of this tech will bother with any direct support for a program like poser with its tiny user base.

And as for SM adding support for this tech??...its seems they would have more immediate priorities given the state of the poser content market.

Hi Wolf, I agree with what you wrote. Overnight, I "dreamed up" what going on the learning curve for Unity would get me besides the Leia tech, and I also examined links for non-game movie-making with Unity. I'm leaning. I have a collaborator already on Unity, as well, for games.

The people at Leia I've spoken to are thrilled to be launching on the RED Hydrogen One, but realize even that is a small niche. However, it is a perfect first gambit for them to prove its buzz. Their ambition is to realize a presence on devices from Apple, Microsoft, Samsung, and Google. That might take two years.

One element here is this: a decent number of films for standard 2D in theaters and cable are being filmed in 3D. To watch them in 3D on a current device such as an iPad, you have to wear glasses. Leia is counting on a surge by Big Media to harvest that content. Imagine watching Avatar or Lord of the Rings on an iPad in "depth" with no glasses. The guy next to you on the plane is going to see that and go nuts.

At some point, Leia plugins for Blender will happen. That is NOT a tiny user-base of content makers. I bet Daz is looking at this. I hope Poser does too.

::::: Opera :::::

Hi Boni. I think Leia believes they have figured out how to trick the brains of cyclopsi and biclopsi into seeing like quads!

:: og ::

LOL!! Aren't you the clever one, og!!! Thanks for the giggle.

Marketing Hype and naming can have a great effect on perception. H4V (Hydrogen 4 Viewport) means exactly what? There are 4 cameras (viewports) on the device, however 2 face front and 2 face to the rear. So in effect you have a stereoscope camera that can record a image. Looking at both the Ops link and the one 3D-mobster listed what I come away with is a camera phone that emulates an old style camera with an aperture dial that can change what is in focus or not. On the other hand looking at the Leiainc website they talk about a nanotube plate that goes between the device and front LCD. Add the fact that the effect can be turned on and off on the phone it looks like a very small market, since none of the displays out today can show the effect. So in effect you can take this really cool picture and then invite all your friends over to look at your phone to show them your trip.

As far as Poser being able to create the images for this should be no problem as there have been dozens of threads on this site asking how to make stereoscopic images, and basiclly it comes down to make a scene render and then move the camera a small amount to the side and render agian. The math behind making the blur is simple as the further an object is from the camera the less it will move on the X axis between camera images, conversely the closer the more the X axis shift.

As a final question what does the phrase "better then 3D without glasses" mean to you? on one hand you could infer they are talking about 3D without glasses, but they really don't say anything about it being 3D just that it is better. Better could also mean Holographic which would imply that you should able to turn the phone and then see the backside of the thing you took the picture of, which is not really possible using todays tech.

"...So in effect you can take this really cool picture and then invite all your friends over to look at your phone to show them your trip."

For the moment. Just like when the automobile raged into the culture when "there aren't any good roads for it." And when digital filmmaking, in part pioneered by RED, faced the challenge of "there are no cinemas that can project digital movies."

When Leia's tech is on millions of tablets, laptops, and phones from Apple and Samsung, you will be sending your "deep" selfie to your friend for them to see on their cool deep screen. Yes, that may never happen. Perhaps RED will only sell a million sets, and Leia will never convince another device-maker to adopt it, and this effect will be for "a very small market." Perhaps.

Ever since the invention of photography, the urge to view in depth has persisted. Its a delightful thrill. I loved my View-Master as a kid. Always, however, these ventures have been imperfect or burdened with clumsy glasses or viewers.

All ye doom-sayers, go for it. In the forums for H4V there is even a separate topic room for thrashing.

For myself, I'm enjoying the kool-aid. It feels like the first time I set eyes on a Macintosh, April, 1984.

::::: Opera :::::

@ Richard60. NOTE: Leia/RED are not calling it 3D, and not calling it Holographic. This is conscious, careful, and honest. [irony follows...] You have to see it to understand it.

On your comment that effecting the LeiaCamera or equivalent in Poser being easy, are you personally of mind and ability to tackle it, if you could make it worth your while financially?

I don't know if the existing SDKs were written by Leia, or by Maya/Android/Unity, to a developer's spec issued by Leia. I'm going to ask them.

A couple points: The auto came out and at first they used the same trails as wagons or streets in towns just like the horse and buggies, in fact most had the same type of wheels as wagons. It took many years before there were paved roads as we know them, although many very busy streets were covered in bricks not for the autos but to prevent grooving by wagons during the wet seasons.

As far as depth, doing simple Depth of Field blurring shows the effect of separation. Currently I am watching Moulin Rouge and part of the effects are exaggerated camera speed and depth of field. Even on my old TV you can see the separation of objects making some appear to be standing apart from the rest of the scene, much like the View Masters of old. Part of what makes cell phone cameras so plain is that everything is in focus mostly due to the fact the optics are so small and close to the sensor, they really can't produce much if any DoF. A couple of years ago there was a camera that could take 1,000,000 x 1,000,000 pixel pictures, it took up a small van in size, but could take a single picture and you can zoom in on the details and make out the writing on a pile of lumber sitting on the dock across the bay 20 miles away. So in effect it is the same as a cell phone high detail but no depth.

So given what most people are use to when looking at a cellphone camera something that shows DoF and blur will be appear to be magic, but really no different then what is available with an old fashion camera with all the control for aperture and film speed etc. So given that they are not calling it 3D or Holographic, and given what was discussed on the video on YouTube in the link provided by 3D-Mobster, it is still stereoscopic photography with some neat tricks.

As far as Poser is concerned or any other program for that matter the biggest issues you will need to take in account is scale and distance. You just need to make a scene and render a picture then move the camera the proper amount in the X direction and render again. Make sure not to have the camera set to point at something as this will effect the pixel offset. The factors off the top of my head you need to be concerned with are picture dimensions, lens offset and angle of view for the lens. The angle of view varies by lens type, on a 35MM camera the angle of a 18MM lens is much wider then for a 105MM. The first one is easy to setup as you just copy whatever the native value is for the camera. The second one should also be easy as it fixed by the physical camera specs. The last one is where you are going to have to experment a little as a given angle of view will completely fill the frame (but not exceed it) with a given width object a set distance from the camera. The last thing is the render needs to have NO Depth of Field, as that is what the camera produces itself two flat pictures that are processed inside to give the illusion of depth it gives.

This effect is far more dramatic than that accomplished by DOF. I only used the word "depth" to avoid saying "3D" or "Hollogram." Sorry to repeat my ironic statement, but "you have to see the effect on the Hydrogen One to "get it.""

And, well, yes, it is stereoscopic photography ... but actually quadroscopic, which dazzles the viewer's eyes to the next degree better. But the tricks are more than neat. And again, i have to repeat my obnoxious alert: this effect runs on digital screens ** without glasses**.

Thanks for outlining that stereo sequence, although i already have that in my knowledge set. Also, I am learning more about it from Poser-user Allstereo, who has explored it for Poser. Additionally, there is a way to convert stereo content into h4v, so using poser to produce stereo could be valuable. What I'm really wishing for is the true LeiaCamera inside Poser, and script to render out the 4-view standard H4V file.

::::: Opera :::::

Hmm... on reflection ...

I wonder if there is a way to home brew this in Poser. Follow the pattern of Richard60 above, and that which I'm getting from AllStero and others, but for four offset renders, not two.

Then a script to patch the four panes properly.

I don't think that will get all the way to the official Hv4 format, however.

Now I'm definitely contacting Leia on monday about the authoring of SDK's.

:: og ::

operaguy posted at 12:43PM Sun, 28 October 2018 - #4338344

Hmm... on reflection ...

I wonder if there is a way to home brew this in Poser. Follow the pattern of Richard60 above, and that which I'm getting from AllStero and others, but for four offset renders, not two.

Then a script to patch the four panes properly.

I don't think that will get all the way to the official Hv4 format, however.

Now I'm definitely contacting Leia on monday about the authoring of SDK's.

:: og ::

For the purposes of a static image 4V Quad format POC a simple four frame animation sequence with just the camera parameters being changed might be enough to prove the theory,and avoid the need for a script at this stage. The animation can be stored as a Pose file so no need to recalc each time - just a thought in case they slap a NDA on the process and make life complicated.

Hi ironsoul,

For POC, not only could that 4-frame be produced, it could attempt to conform with the notion of the "convergence plane" as shown in the image above in this thread. I can even imagine a python script in Poser that would throw a fustrum in, to use for guidance. Allstereo wrote a script to make the Poser camera systematically move completely around a Poser environment and take 64 renders for stitching together for immersive results.

However, Leia has not released the specs on the H4V CODEC. Yet. They have indicated they will. That will open the world to authoring content for the Leia screen. Here's what I know: the file extension for a static image is .jpg, and the information that carries the 4-variation data is (somehow) in the metadata of the file. This apparently does not turn a normal-sized JPG into a monster, either.

I've mis-typed and mangled it several times, so, for clarity:

Frustum: Click for definition and explanation on Wikipedia

Another post, for clarity: I wrote above "this effect runs on digital screens without glasses."

And i should have included the context, like this: "this effect runs on LeiaScreen-equipped digital screens without glasses.