anupaum posted at 11:29 PM Tue, 14 March 2023 - #4458474

And one more thing . . . . It would SURE be nice to have an updated cloth room -- one that can simulate in real time. We've been stuck with the P5 version since it came out, and it's never been improved. The Hair Room, for me, is totally useless, as is the Setup Room.

Not even Marvelous Designer - a very pricey program that ONLY does clothing - can simulate anything in real time. You get real time in simpler outfits only.

You people are wishful thinking on that request, sorry.

Though going aside from the request of real-time, I've been begging for better clothing simulation for Poser for YEARS.

As far as I understand (these were discussed ad nauseam before), since both the hair and the cloth room used licensed technology from other companies, those were not/ couldn't be updated. They'd need to be yanked out and completely rewritten. And then people would complain about things being broken from their old runtimes.

The first step was the base code rewrite for poser 13. Then they can start faffing with the rest of it. I just wish there was more ifnormati0on and what will be new/ different about P13. Some teaser renders (saw the ones the Hivewire team constantly posted about the new Dawn since they announced it what, m ore than a year ago?) Hells, any marketing would be nice besides a newsletter that only those who subscribe get and only in the vaguest possible terms. It's mid-March.

Well, if they're really re-writing Poser from the ground up, maybe we'll finally get improvements in the cloth and hair rooms. Eventually.

The easiest way to make improvements to the cloth room is to address the UI.

I have been using it forever, but it is still quite cryptic.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 6:14 AM Wed, 15 March 2023 - #4458487

Not even Marvelous Designer - a very pricey program that ONLY does clothing - can simulate anything in real time. You get real time in simpler outfits only.

You people are wishful thinking on that request, sorry.

Okay, I'll grant that I worded that statement badly. I'd like to see cloth simulation speeds similar to programs like Marvelous Designer.

Is that better?

Though going aside from the request of real-time, I've been begging for better clothing simulation for Poser for YEARS.

IMO:

* the cloth room and the hair room should stay as is, to keep old stuff functioning. 
* the best they can do is indeed to rewrite from the ground up, but in a new tab, shifting these old ones to the right...

anupaum posted at 12:27 PM Wed, 15 March 2023 - #4458521

Okay, I'll grant that I worded that statement badly. I'd like to see cloth simulation speeds similar to programs like Marvelous Designer.

Is that better?

Better, but still wishful thinking. You gotta keep in mind that Marvelous Designer's ENTIRE purpose is clothing, it does ONLY that, and is so good at that that you gotta pay per YEAR almost twice what you pay for a permanent license of Poser.

I feel that, if we expect a piece of  software to add to it what specialty programs do on their single specialty, we'll always be let down.

To Y-Phil's proposal: imagine the confusion. I think it would be a mess. What I'd propose would be, (best case scenario) revamp the entire cloth system and give us a script to have a best attempt to convert old cloth room values to it, or (easier case scenario) give us a Cloth Room quick tab with a wizard to set the simulation up, leaving all the complexity and numbers to content creators.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 7:23 AM Thu, 16 March 2023 - #4458658

Better, but still wishful thinking. You gotta keep in mind that Marvelous Designer's ENTIRE purpose is clothing, it does ONLY that, and is so good at that that you gotta pay per YEAR almost twice what you pay for a permanent license of Poser.

I feel that, if we expect a piece of  software to add to it what specialty programs do on their single specialty, we'll always be let down.

To Y-Phil's proposal: imagine the confusion. I think it would be a mess. What I'd propose would be, (best case scenario) revamp the entire cloth system and give us a script to have a best attempt to convert old cloth room values to it, or (easier case scenario) give us a Cloth Room quick tab with a wizard to set the simulation up, leaving all the complexity and numbers to content creators.

It is also true that it is important to evolve what we have.

I think it would be interesting if Bullet Physics could be optimized for clothing simulation.

Bullet Physics is a bit cumbersome to adjust the weights, but I think it has the potential to be more than a clothing simulation.

If we can build a UI and program specifically for clothing, I think it would be a very good real-time clothing simulation.

My Bullet Physics test　
Sorry for this Japanese blog.
http://mneposer.blog.2nt.com/blog-entry-332.html

Translated with DeepL

MNE posted at 11:02 AM Thu, 16 March 2023 - #4458697

I think it would be interesting if Bullet Physics could be optimized for clothing simulation.

Bullet Physics is a bit cumbersome to adjust the weights, but I think it has the potential to be more than a clothing simulation.

If we can build a UI and program specifically for clothing, I think it would be a very good real-time clothing simulation.

Personally, I find bullet physics clunky. It bogs my computer to the point where it will just run endlessly, but not do anything. I'd thought it would be a great tool in my Poser arsenal, but I've been disappointed.

Now that VWD isn't working anymore, animating hair will HAVE to be done in bullet physics. Let's see if P13 has some improvements in store.

anupaum posted at 5:43 PM Thu, 16 March 2023 - #4458758

MNE posted at 11:02 AM Thu, 16 March 2023 - #4458697

I think it would be interesting if Bullet Physics could be optimized for clothing simulation.

Bullet Physics is a bit cumbersome to adjust the weights, but I think it has the potential to be more than a clothing simulation.

If we can build a UI and program specifically for clothing, I think it would be a very good real-time clothing simulation.

Personally, I find bullet physics clunky. It bogs my computer to the point where it will just run endlessly, but not do anything. I'd thought it would be a great tool in my Poser arsenal, but I've been disappointed.

Now that VWD isn't working anymore, animating hair will HAVE to be done in bullet physics. Let's see if P13 has some improvements in store.

I too find it difficult to use.

That is why it needs to evolve.

Bullet Physics does not have to be a dedicated piece of clothing.

It can be used as a real-time cloth simulation in many ways, such as just the skirt part of a conform cloth, or just the scarf or tie part of a conform cloth.

Currently, Bullet Physics is designed for animation and is designed to bounce off soft objects.

If Bullet Physics evolves and can be configured specifically for cloth, it could be used as a real-time cloth simulation that approaches Marvelous Designer.

I suspect you are likely more clever than I am . . . .

I have used the cloth room for simulating parts of conforming cloth props. It's really slow, and doesn't always result in ideal simulations, but it DOES work. I'd post an image here, but the Modesty Police annoy me . . . .

:)