When you add an IBL light, it brings up a a dialog box where you select your image to use. Didn't use to do this. (In previous versions, you would create an IBL and then you had to go to the material and select Setup IBL and then chose your image.) 

So I select my image from the new implementation and then try to render and all I get is a silhouette of the figure. Doesn't matter how high I set the intensity. 100, 1000, 5000 all give you a silhouette. Changing the angle of the light doesn't help either. 

But if I go to the material room and click on set up IBL and then choose the same image, then it works like it use to.

So either there is something wrong with that new implementation or I'm missing a step. But I can't think of what.

Actually what I said above isn't true. IBL lights do not appear to be working in Superfly anymore with the latest building.

I didn't realize that Poser was switching me to Firefly when I got the results stated above. Doesn't matter whether I set up the IBL myself or use the prompts presented when I add the IBL all I get in superfly is a silhouette. It used to work in superfly, didn't it? That's what I always use. 

This is what I get in Superfly when I select an image and set the am occlusion. If I go in the material room and and click on Set up IBL, I can choose the same image and it will render. But what I didn't realize was happening is that Poser has switched me to firefly and that is why it is rendering. When I switch back to superfly and render again, this is what I get. The silhouette. 

IBL Light settings

The ground is hidden. Otherwise you would have a solid black image. But I verified that visible is unchecked on the ground.

As far as I understand, Superfly does not use either AO or IBL. Scenes and lights should be set up totally differently.  I am reworking a ton of my old scene files from before Superfly times because of that. 

The manual states that IBL is not supported in Superfly.  Never has been since it was introduced in P11.

Okay, then. I guess I just thought I was using it when I rendered in superfly. I always added an IBL and a distance light or an area light. So I guess I got fooled. Too funny. But IBL lighting is some of the best lighting. Superfly should really support it. Oh, well.

Thanks.

All you need is a good background shader on the Background with a HDRI on it. Maybe one light with that.

Bastep has one set for P12 here in Freestuff that works very well in P13 as well for me. But P13 comes WITH pre-made scenes that are set up that way as well.

A lot simpler, is the PBR way.

If superfly doesn't support IBL, then why do the two included P13 scenes (Mondello Beach and Wide Street), both have IBL with the bg images attached?

Rendering those scenes in firefly produces a black render, so they must be intended for superfly.

Some clarification is needed here.

Ok, it's just a preview light, so it has no effect on rendering, just used to set up the scene I'm guessing...

The IBL is probably there so you can see what your doing in the preview. I use a hidden line preview in Poser, so not entirely sure thou....

Edit, seems we cross posted, lol

From what I can determine, the IBL in those P13 scenes is only for Preview and is not intended for Superfly rendering.  The lighting comes from the HDR background which renders very well in Superfly but will give you a black background with Firefly.  The Environment Preview is a projection prop that, I believe, captures the image from the IBL.  That, in conjunction with the light and HDR background, works as a rotatable platform to change the background scene in real-time.  I have the misfortune that one of my computer's onboard graphics cannot handle those scenes very; the IBL lighting is in the wrong x rotation to properly illuminate the Preview and the Material Room setup disagrees with how the arrangement should work.

From the manual: "IBL Lights work differently in SuperFly. They will not work with an enclosed environment like an environment sphere or Poser's construct scene. If you need to create a HDRI Environment in Poser please use one of the included HDRI environments as a starting point to setup your scene."

I honestly  only tried those environments once and found  them way too bright for what i do, so I am using the Background node HDRI method from P12, with preview lights. For interior scenes I use Afrodite-Ohki's Superfly sets or ghostship2's Superfly lights, both from the marketplace here.

All it provides is an additional light source, nothing more, nothing less.  As I stated above, the workload of the lighting is achieved from the HDR Background.  The Bestep setup that Rhia mentions in her post makes the HDR Background easily rotatable even though it incorporates the same nodes as the Setup Scenes.  I disagree with using the Gamma node to control intensity output, it distorts color output at higher values, but I found a solution for that.

I've always had issues with lighting in Poser, more so than any other app I've ever worked in.

But it's becoming a bit clearer now, thanks.

You know,...I was sure I was using IBL in superfly in Poser 12 and Poser 13 before the update that I just installed yesterday. So I went back to Poser 12 and tested it. And it worked. Here's a quick test. I have 1 light. An IBL. I set the intensity to 300% and then I rendered in superfly and this was the result. I did have to hide the ground sphere or else I would just get a black screen. 

There is also a video on youtube created by Renderostiy and in the video, he does exactly what I did. In fact I learned to do this from that video. And I was doing this in Poser 13 too until yesterday.

So maybe there's something in the latest building besides the ground that is blocking the light. Or maybe it was working and it wasn't suppose to be working. But it was. I did it many times. Until yesterday. And I can still do it in Poser 12.

But I will try to use the HDRI method. (I actually thought IBL was Poser's version of HDRI lighting.)

I actually did a render today using an HDRI after I set it up from a tutorial I found online. The HDRI showed in the preview, but it did not render. And the HDRI was blurry. Is there a way to make it show in the render and not be blurry?

I did buy those products Rhia474 mentioned above. I will try them when I get them installed.

Yes, IBL did work in 11 and 12 and I can't find where in the manual that it states superfly doesn't support it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_paY90kz40&list=PLHskz2PNix3A5yg-x4tRQF5xPWPsRV5Q5&index=9

Video from Poser 11 (SM days I believe), around the 12 minute mark is when he explains how it works and how to set it up.

But a lot has changed since then and word has it SF is a complete rewrite in 13 so I'm sure that has something to do with it.

If you get the background material from free stuff I mentioned, it will set up correctly for HDRIs. It is not just loading it onto background and go.

https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/90149/background-shader

You know,...I was sure I was using IBL in superfly in Poser 12 and Poser 13 before the update that I just installed yesterday. So I went back to Poser 12 and tested it. And it worked. Here's a quick test. I have 1 light. An IBL. I set the intensity to 300% and then I rendered in superfly and this was the result. I did have to hide the ground sphere or else I would just get a black screen. 

There is also a video on youtube created by Renderostiy and in the video, he does exactly what I did. In fact I learned to do this from that video. And I was doing this in Poser 13 too until yesterday.

So maybe there's something in the latest building besides the ground that is blocking the light. Or maybe it was working and it wasn't suppose to be working. But it was. I did it many times. Until yesterday. And I can still do it in Poser 12.

But I will try to use the HDRI method. (I actually thought IBL was Poser's version of HDRI lighting.)

I actually did a render today using an HDRI after I set it up from a tutorial I found online. The HDRI showed in the preview, but it did not render. And the HDRI was blurry. Is there a way to make it show in the render and not be blurry?

I did buy those products Rhia474 mentioned above. I will try them when I get them installed.

I actually did a render today using an HDRI after I set it up from a tutorial I found online. The HDRI showed in the preview, but it did not render. And the HDRI was blurry. Is there a way to make it show in the render and not be blurry?

You need high resolution HDRI for sharper renders.  Anything between 4-8k will work but could slowdown your system.  You might get away with 3k depending the scene.

Preview is through the preview render engine, based on OpenGL. OpenGL does not support image based light, so there is a light in the environment scenes so that you can see something during preview. The light is discarded during render. All environment light in these scenes comes from the background. You can of course add more local lights when the scene requires them.

Same holds for the background in preview. OpenGL does not support it, so an environment sphere is used during preview and ignored during render.   

On PolyHaven you find a wealth of environments, including nighttime shots for reduced light. Visible backgrounds work best for large spaces. 

The HDRI is used in 3 shaders:  Render background/light, preview light and preview background. You can change the HDRI used in all three shaders in one go via 'replace all identical maps' | 'in scene' option in the texture manager.

Use 'Render on transparent background' if you want only the light and not the background image.

I downloaded the product by Bastep and I installed it into poser. I start Poser 13 and load an empty scene. I find the product under Materials.  I try to load it but it tells me to select something to apply it to. But there's nothing but the ground pretty much. So I go look at the tutorial I found and I think I am suppose to go to the material room and select the background from the dropdown. I do that and I apply that material by Bastep. It loads it into the shader tree. But now there is a fixed image in the Preview window. I go back to the Pose room and I see that fixed image. I try to rotate around the scene. But it appears that I am locked on that background image. Then I load a figure. He is rather dark. (Not a lot of light on him.) But I find that when I rotate the camera that he does indeed rotate. But that background image never changes. When I render, I do see my figure in the environment and not that fixed image and my figure is floating in the air. But I can't try to fix it because all I see in the preview is that fixed background with my figure in front of it. I think I must have something wrong. In the material room, I see that the dropdown is set to BackgroundMaterial. I think maybe I should select something else like just background. But I don't see anything else to select. So, I know I must be doing something wrong. But I don't know what. I didn't see any instructions in the freebie. Help.

Also this seems different that the two scenes that come with Poser. They have stuff loaded onto to three environmental objects. But this is loading onto the background. Or maybe I'm loading it on the wrong thing.

I didn't see those environmental things to select. But maybe that's because I loaded an empty scene.

I tried to find tutorials on youtube on how to do this but all the lighting tutorials I find are about all kinds of lighting except HDRI lighting.

I also tried adding an infinite light to the scene. It made a bright hotspot in the scene. But when I rendered, that hot spot wasn't visible but the light didn't appear to do anything.

Thanks.

Hi-why don't you take a look at this tutorial, it may help with the basics.

https://www.posersoftware.com/article/536/poser-basics-how-to-use-hdr-lighting

In short, your image does not rotate because it is on the backgound, not on a sphere. To rotate the background image, change the Y value in the rotation of the mapping node. (It is explained in the tutorial).
If you purchased the lights I recommended, there is a light set in those that says 'lights the scene but does not render'. Use those--you will see in the scene but it won't be visible on the render as they are set already that way. (Both of those sets contain a light set like that).
The point of the HDRI is that you don't *need another light.

Result:

Hi-why don't you take a look at this tutorial, it may help with the basics.

https://www.posersoftware.com/article/536/poser-basics-how-to-use-hdr-lighting

In short, your image does not rotate because it is on the backgound, not on a sphere. To rotate the background image, change the Y value in the rotation of the mapping node. (It is explained in the tutorial).
If you purchased the lights I recommended, there is a light set in those that says 'lights the scene but does not render'. Use those--you will see in the scene but it won't be visible on the render as they are set already that way. (Both of those sets contain a light set like that).
The point of the HDRI is that you don't *need another light.

I downloaded the product by Bastep and I installed it into poser. I start Poser 13 and load an empty scene. I find the product under Materials.  I try to load it but it tells me to select something to apply it to. But there's nothing but the ground pretty much. So I go look at the tutorial I found and I think I am suppose to go to the material room and select the background from the dropdown. I do that and I apply that material by Bastep. It loads it into the shader tree. But now there is a fixed image in the Preview window. I go back to the Pose room and I see that fixed image. I try to rotate around the scene. But it appears that I am locked on that background image. Then I load a figure. He is rather dark. (Not a lot of light on him.) But I find that when I rotate the camera that he does indeed rotate. But that background image never changes. When I render, I do see my figure in the environment and not that fixed image and my figure is floating in the air. But I can't try to fix it because all I see in the preview is that fixed background with my figure in front of it. I think I must have something wrong. In the material room, I see that the dropdown is set to BackgroundMaterial. I think maybe I should select something else like just background. But I don't see anything else to select. So, I know I must be doing something wrong. But I don't know what. I didn't see any instructions in the freebie. Help.

Also this seems different that the two scenes that come with Poser. They have stuff loaded onto to three environmental objects. But this is loading onto the background. Or maybe I'm loading it on the wrong thing.

I didn't see those environmental things to select. But maybe that's because I loaded an empty scene.

I tried to find tutorials on youtube on how to do this but all the lighting tutorials I find are about all kinds of lighting except HDRI lighting.

I also tried adding an infinite light to the scene. It made a bright hotspot in the scene. But when I rendered, that hot spot wasn't visible but the light didn't appear to do anything.

Thanks.

What the starter sets in P13 do is provide an Environment Preview Prop that is linked to the Background and provides a means of visualizing and rotating an HDRI projection.  Rotate your main camera and you can see in real-time where you are within that HDRI environment.  A rather neat arrangement.  Swap out the image and you have another environment for your figures to play in.  However, you need a high resolution for the projections to render sharply and they should be sized accordingly so your figures don't appear freakishly too large or too small.  Unfortunately, I have a computer with an onboard video chip that doesn't play well with Poser but on another computer, it works perfectly fine.

Well, I think I made some progress with the background method. In the material, I can set it up like the tutorial or use the freebee. Then while in the material room I can play with the rotation setting and then do a quick render while still in the material room to see how your changes are affecting the environment. 

The background image in the Pose room almost servers no purpose. Because when I render in Pose room the background image does not show up in the render at all. I get the environment from the HDRI. Too bad you can't just hide the background image. Maybe the process needs it. 

If I got it wrong, let me know.

I'll keep playing with it and I'll try the method where you use those environment settings. That appeals to me more since you can see the actual environment in the Pose room.

I also did an image using one of Afrodite-Ohki's Superfly sets. That worked pretty well.

And thanks for all your help.

I honestly  only tried those environments once and found  them way too bright for what i do,

randym77 posted at 3:33 PM Sat, 22 April 2023 - #4463063

Rhia474 posted at 12:16 PM Wed, 19 April 2023 - #4462762

I honestly  only tried those environments once and found  them way too bright for what i do,

That has been my experience as well. I think including better lighting would be the easiest way to improve Poser for beginners. It's something people really seem to struggle with.

A selection using scene props from Shaaramuse with matching HDRI attached to an environmental dome.

The above were created in Poser 12 but it all still works in Poser 13.

Or there is the mix, this uses an environment from Flipmode for the external environment and I have added lights from Level up Superfly from Afrodite-Ohki.  Again in Poser 13

HDR backgrounds can be hidden from camera view so you only use the luminous values to illuminate your scene.  This is a practical method to build your scene with mismatched elements.  Applicable to skydomes and skyboxes.

This is an example where the luminous values of an HDR are applied to the Construct and the background behind the Constuct is colored black.  For rendering the Construct is made invisible to the camera.  The final image was PostFX'ed for presentation.

randym77 posted at 3:33 PM Sat, 22 April 2023 - #4463063

Rhia474 posted at 12:16 PM Wed, 19 April 2023 - #4462762

I honestly  only tried those environments once and found  them way too bright for what i do,

That has been my experience as well. I think including better lighting would be the easiest way to improve Poser for beginners. It's something people really seem to struggle with.

There are any number of environments that are available commercially from the complex environment provided by the likes of the Terra environments from MortemVetus which are completes sets, or similar from Flipmode that includes either a dome or skybox along with props to create a scene and lighting to complement the scene in question.  Another range of possibilities are the HDRI offerings from Sharramuse which recommends the environmental dome by Bagginsbill when used in Poser but will work with any similar dome.  All of these easy to use and to control the level of lighting so that it matches the scene.

Unfortunately, there is no 'one size, fits all' answer where beginners are concerned.  IIRC, the default lights are 4 types of lights, Spotlight, Infinity Light, Point Light, and Area Light, and they're distributed around the scene stage.  Not that any truly reads the manual, but a section of it should be dedicated to complex lighting and how to work with it.  A thoroughly detailed video tutorial should get beginners curious enough to experiment with this all-important feature.  My suggestion to users, observe the actual world around them; look out the window to see how the environmental light changes with time and weather, and observe the interior world such as malls, offices, homes, etc for light placement and colors.  Pay particular attention to how movies are lit; we are bombarded with videos and television, and it is hard to ignore.  

And use lighting creatively.   In Superfly, become familiar with the Wavelength and Blackbody nodes, wonder features that truly enhance how scenes can be lit.

I think Level up Superfly with the Outdoor Expansion by Afrodite-Ohki would be a great starting point for the beginner as there are so many options available.  The environmental sphere is included in the add on along with a number of materials. offering Bright, Dim and Outdoor options.  The lighting options are vast providing, KeyLights, RimLights, FillLights. Sunlights, Suns for the Envsphere and a preview light that does no render.   Each light folder has a description of what the light is used for and suggestions of how to use it  while the thumbnails give an example of the lighting effect.

Using this could be a way to easily to play with the lights and see what each one does which would appear to be a great way to add to the understanding of the user..  I have no connection with the vendor other than to be a user of the product and I have found I have learnt a lot by playing with the options provided by the product. 

Ohki puts out good products.  I don't own any yet but maybe in the near future.

Ohki puts out good products.  I don't own any yet but maybe in the near future.

This has been a good thread for me. I was in a rut using lights and didn't know it. Then when what I was doing didn't work anymore, I was forced to explore other options.

This has been a good thread for me. I was in a rut using lights and didn't know it. Then when what I was doing didn't work anymore, I was forced to explore other options.

On Monday I will explain my process ...I am not on my work machine right now ...  I have been working this out for a couple weeks now.  This image came from the new preview environment set up.  So it does work  

It does work but the casted shadows do not blend with the environment very well.  You really need to play with your lighting intensity and color to get it right.  

@Boni, your shadows are in the wrong direction contrary to how they appear in the background under the horse.  Unfortunately, the HDRI is too light and doesn't blend well with the horse or rider.  Clearly, you may need to do some post-work to bring some balance between your foreground and background.

Thank you for pointing these things out, hborre.  This was just a render to show that the system works with the right set up.  

The trick is to use HDRi's (not just HDR's) in all your images ...The Environmental Preview, Preview LIght and the actual Background (above Atmosphere in the dropdown).  

For those of you who are using Snarly's EZDome.  Any scene you've created using the OLDER version (pre-P12) will not work properly.  P12 and newer will be fine.  

I hope this helps.

@Boni: so you need version 1.7 or.. ? Which is the latest?

Actually, Boni, the Preview Light is just that, an IDL lighting for illuminating the scene in the preview window.  It doesn't contribute that much to the final Superfly render and I'm trying to rationalize why use a Diffuse IDL rather than an Infinite light at that stage.

@Rhia474: I do believe that the final EZDome version is 1.7.  It also has the shadow catcher built into the Script.

I thought so, just wanted to be sure there isn't a newer version than what's on the website Cobrablade's hosting those scripts. Thanks!