Continuing from the Vicky-genitals thread, Vicky 2 is rather better than Vicky 1. In a normal frontal pose, without textures or bump maps, V2 looks reasonably correct, which V1 does not. Gynaecological detail I don't need; basic realism I do. The image here I put together quickly to try and show the difference in normal use without resort to close-ups or special emphasis. There is absolutely no post work (hence the bad elbows). V1 on the left, V2 on the right.

Funny that no one in all this thread material has mentioned the genital morphs that Vickie 2 DOES have. Granted, there's no added geometry, but they do give V2 a more natural look where all V1 could hope for was a texture map to correct her "sillyness".

Actually I did Foxhollow S But yeah.

Foxhollow - they are used in the image above.

What bothers me far more than the gens question is the far more visible wrongness in her shoulders! The figure on the left in Phantast's render, above, shows the problem exactly. When her arms are raised significantly, the head of the humerus and the outer surface of the deltoids should move and rotate toward her ear a whole lot more! And the whole scapular and subscapular region just hangs out there, instead of moving towards her center line, and you get this weird bump where the lats attach to the shoulder area. The whole shoulder thing floats over the top of the ribs, and isn't rigid! Also, even thin women would get a crease from the traps, around the neck, toward the breastbone, where the pectorals slide proximally, er, toward the breastbone. The current configuration looks rather more masculine than it should... perhaps understandable since men are doing the modeling and have themselves handy for a mirror check. But it isn't correct. Can you tell that this has bothered me for a while? Could any of this be fixed with JCM techniques (which are quite beyond me). Nan

Dan Wilmes CR2 edit can do just about anything and it makes JCM a piece of cake, I can highly recommend it! ('scuse me butting in!)

The pose on V1 is extreme for the arms. I had to reset the limits with my setup to get it. Vicki out of the box does not come close. This is MillieJCM2 with adapted V2 morphs for JCM and one of my PBM set by hand. The V2 elbow fix is on, but it is mostly masked here. I think the twisting of the muscle under the arm is due to my joint setup as there are no JCM for this muscle. The limbs go so far with this that it seems to mask most JCM fixes. Nan, can you get me a graphic of the traps-pecks effect? The polys are sort of large in the area but something might be done.

Jaager, you are awesome for rising to the occasion. i will lookin in some of my artist's references tonight or tomorrow night, as i'm pretty sure i can come up with something. Hey ho for the old scanner-o!

Hrmmmm... I don't have access to a scanner on this machine, but if anyone who does has a copy of "Drawing Dynamic Anatomy" or "Dynamic Figure Drawing" by Hogarth, both of those give some excellent reference illustrations of how the various muscle groups bend, bunch and flex together.

i have just scanned about 3 MB of artists' reference pages. (Does anyone remember the Fairburn figure references? These are huge books with a zillion photos in them.) Anyhow, i am sending them to Jaager in a couple of e-mails. If anyone else wants to see, let me know your e-mail address. The photo here is just one of them, and there are about 24 on a page. Anyhow, you can see that the whole shoulder and scapula rotate up and toward the centerline, and there is *no* bumpy thing sticking out at the side of the shoulders, because or it.

Hrm... Nice, nfredman. I was looking over Traveller's refernce page on designing morphs in Rhino while checking my Dynamic Anatomy book, and it looked as though that line could be corrected using his technique. Of course, making it a JCM so that it would flow properly when the arms were raised would take a wizard like Jaager, rather than a hack like me, but it could be done. ;]

Attached Link: http://www.cooltuna.com/downloads/index.html

Hi, folks! i've had so many requests for those scanned reference files that i posted them as downloads on my site. These are BIG files--if you have a slow connection, you may want to do a "Save target as" and go have a soda. Enjoy! i think you'll see what i mean about the Poser figure's shoulders not rotating correctly. i don't know what to do about that... it's for more capable folks than me to figure out. Happy posing-- Nan

1. by nfredman covered it as I see it. Masculine-ish. You can't build female anatomy correctly from male references and Vicky always looked like some one used male references.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=311239

Nan, I have taken a stab at it. Moved the thread to the top of the stack. I also added the JCM to move the breast to the midline when the collar comes forward - not shown.