Gothic Challenge with a TWIST "Maybe something like, a gothic image displaying something not usually seen in the genre? Maybe a gothic image with an oriental flare instead of a European one? A gothic image with flowers in it that aren't roses?" Rules: -Gothic style image with at least one element that is unusual for the genre. -Render an image in poser - Post work is allowed -Keep the file size under 200K -No more than one entry per person -Thumbnail must be 100x100 -Can not be a project started before this posting - The winner of this challenge will select the topic of the next challenge -The last day for entries will be 5:00pm CST, Tuesday, July 9th (using renderosity time)

Note that the deadline is now 5:00pm CST. Too much darn overtime at my day job :0) smerc

the only problem is the definition of Gothic. I am Goth, and can give 10 different definitions of Gothic. most widely accepted has to do with morbidity. a love affair, of sorts, with death. it isn't really architecture, or clothing, it is literally an acceptance that death is inevitable and the resulting lack of fear of death.

I looked up Goth once in a dictionary and got the definition of "Barbarian." Kind of odd considering how it's used in popular language.

barbarian definition comes from the "visigoth" a barbarian tribe. ~g~

ectually, there were various gothic tribe in ancient germany- such as the ostrogoths. and the vandals As vandal was orgin or teh word vandalism, gothic can to mean barbaric or ugly. The traditional term appilied to architecture supposedly came as when a writter who decribed a cathedral with flying butresses, and gargolyes water spouts wrote "its so ugly that its gothic." The name stuck meaning "ugly." Hold on theres a piont to this So goth can mean 1) ancient germanic tribe 2) any barbarian 3) ugly 4) 11th century architecture 5) poeple who dress in black and has a attitude SOOOO technically any one of "naked vicky in temple" can be called goth espicially if she is in a medieval cathedral, and she's dressed in black valkurie gear. and she's dead and real ugly ;)

not with an attitude, with a lack of concern. ~g~ I don't play fair, I aim to completely destroy what pisses me off, or who pisses me off. the wearing black, doesn't mean anything. I know several Goth's that do not own one article of clothing that is black. I think smerc has to actually post the definition of Goth to be used in the challenge. it isn't as cut and dried as the opening post assumes. ~g~

Don't restrict yourselves to the stereotypical black wearing, pasty faced, pierced young person hanging out in a dark alley. Since we are using poser I would expect a person in the image (but not required), but as eirian implied the setting of the image or "architecture" should lend itself to a gothic image. I hesitate to define the limits of the challenge as that would require an interrogation on my part of eirian and summfox to strictly define the parameters of the challenge. Rather I would put the responsibility on the artist to define for themselves "gothic" and express your definition through your image. If we the viewer understand your "definition" then you have succeeded. Like most popular images in the media and in the renderosity gallery, you can play it safe and persue the common expected path and post a half naked women in black or you can be daring and choose a less expected path and surprise us. The problem with surprises is that not everyone will understand (how many people know that Goth means ancient germanic tribe). And as a result you may get fewer votes, where as a goth pin up is gauranteed to gather attention. smerc

You've Goth to be kidding...

bobasaur.. booooooooooooo hisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss LOL

Ah so Cathedral of Notre Dame,the works Edgar Allen Poe, "Frankenstien", Cathedrals using the flying buttress, the movie "The Rockie Horror Picture Show" as well as certain practices of wicken and even works based upon Vlad the Impaler could all be considered Gothic in their own way? If so I think I got it. - Again the silence was only broken by the sound of her voice.

Jaqui (of any of the other Goths here), (a). Is Gothism (today) based upon despair? To my non-Goth eye it appears that it's not just an acceptance of death but that there's no hope for anything but temporary passing pleasures because death is inevitable. (b). If (a) is true, what is the appeal of Gothism to so many? I would think people would want a belief system that offers hope - either for a better life here or a better eternity? Or does Gothism perhaps suffer some of the same misfortunes as Christianity - there are some who act it, look it, and speak it because it's culturally cool (within their peer group) and then others who genuinely believe in it? I ask because I genuinely want to understand. I know things are not always what they seem. If this is too likely to get into forum silliness, feel free to email me. I know this is potentially OT and my goal is not to start a major religious discussion here. There is a time to pun, and a time to speak. However, most of the time, it's time to listen.

The original term Gothic, referring to architecture, was originally an insulting term, implying that that style was ugly and barbaric. The Literary Gothic period was called such because the style recalled the elaborate yet stark architectural style of Gothic, and were also called the Romantics, more commonly. The Romantics concentrated on two primary themes - love and death. Modern Goths focus in on themes the Romantics touched upon, but mix them up, and fuse them. Love and Death are intermingled (as often as not, I realize that's not a completely accurate statement for all Goths), and attempt to dress in modern versions of styles favored by the Literary Romantics, but focusing on grim styles of these clothes. They stick to black, with white makeup, and occasional white or burgandy trim, and extremely contrasting makeup. I have no clue why they are still called Goths, since most of them have no idea that the term originally referred to the Goths and Visigoths, but there ya go. And, yes, I know a couple perky goths, who dress the dress and listen to the music, but are... well... perky. Like a cheerleader in all black, with funky makeup. "Heehee, my life is a dark pit of darkness. Want a cookie, I made them myself?"

And being Goth is not a religion or a beleif system... it's like being a Punk, or being a MetalHead, or being a Jock - cultural, not spiritual.

Perky Goths?

Like Wednesday Addams in the Addams Family Values movie stating "I'm not perky, but I want to be."

Oh I love those Addams Family movies!!

Hmmm. A culture that fuses Love and Death? I'm more aware of the death part (that's what gets hyped in the media) - the Love part is new to me. Love and Death are such core, critical issues in human existance that it's hard not to think of them in terms of belief systems or religion or philosophy.

It sounds like it's (being a Goth today) almost just a fashion style based on a very, very, very, retro theme.

This is fascinating; my normal tendancy would be to ask if Love is defined any differently than for non-Goths, if Death is seen as an end or a beginning, by "fusing" do you mean giving equal importance or are you saying there's some sort of relationship between Love and Death, and several other deep questions. However, it also sounds like maybe the ones I should ask those questions to are the Romantics. I suspect they're all dead now.

I'm gonna have to think about this for a little while.

They merge it, and it usually ends up focusing on the love of death, unfortunately, or they scrap the love side entirely out of (often carefully cultivated) bitterness.

even though some answers have been widely different, they still do conatian an aspect of the "modern" Goth. the modern goth culture started in 1978. and is attributed to one song that inspired three bands. the look came from one of the three bands. the next generation of bands in the early 80's copied that look. but goth is slightly different for each person, and is continually changing. the Vampire subculture has become associated with Goth as has, frequently, the SCA ( society of Creative anacronism ) at least here they have. different in different cities. you really got to watch out for the raver goths, those ones are nuts. ~wink~ I do choose to wear nothing but black, no highlighting colours, no trim, just black. no make-up though, unless going to formal night, which doesn't happen very often. I also choose to have my hair long ( it's almost waist length now. ) late 1800's was the gothic/romantic era and yup it was Mary shelley's Frankenstein that was part of the era, and has an effect on today's gothic culture. though a lot of "Goths" don't learn anything about the history, and only call themselves goth because of the music, and the fashion styles. lots of "Fetish" wear in goth community here. not unusual for younger generation of subculture to not know the history. kind of like the gay community doesn't learn about the history for itself....like the Nazi concentration camps having jews, political prisoners and gays in them. ~efg~ and the US attitude in some areas is a duplicate of the Nazi attitude towards gays. the state of oregon being an example. (sorry off topic I know, but living beisde gay community here had to point out the similarities)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12418&Form.ShowMessage=746292

If Death is seen as "taking a step into forever" (quote from a song I wrote back in the 20th century) I could see loving it. I's a new opportunity, it's full of hope that things will be better. If Death is merely seen as an escape from life as we know it, it seems awful sad.

It really looks like this could become a quite profound subject. Death, love, bitterness, obviously the experience of being feared and probably ridiculed by one's neighbors, there's actually quite alot of opportunity for powerfully moving art within this challenge. I sure hope someone really does this justice. Lusting over scantily-clad artificial women (or men) may be the norm in this arena, but that's only a part of life. There's so much more. (no, I'm not talking about lusting over TWO scantily-clad artificial women or men).

I'd been thinking of doing an entry for this contest involving a Goth - attired woman (I don't have Vicky to put in a temple with a sword [grin]) with a Goth attired baby/young child on a bright-lighted carousel surrounded by at least one kid staring at them incredulously. It would have been at best, cute or amusing. Now I'm thinking that to make it say something of value I'd have to do alot more than I am capable of. I don't have the artistic talent to bring out that which is underneath - the depth in the characters that makes a truly excellent piece of art. I'm darn good at frivolous though [grin].

Jaqui, - what song in 1978 and what bands? And where do I go to look beneath the media hype and find out about the Vampires and SCA?

And are Marilyn Manson and Rob Zombie just poseurs? OK, that doesn't have to be answered ;-).

FWIW:
I don't know how many reading this thread have actually read Mary Shelly's Frankenstien. I did and it was quite profound. Contrary to what Hollywood shows, the bad guy wasn't neccesarily the "monster"! The question that the "monster" raised (doesn't a creator have an obligation to his/her creation) is a very legitimate question.

"... as well as certain practices of wicken..." Nah, most wiccans are extremely un-goth, especially the "green" ones.

"I don't play fair, I aim to completely destroy what pisses me off, or who pisses me off." Why?

Thanks for the link Jaqui. You posted it while I was typing so I didn't see it earlier.

Micheleh: Sorry about misspelling wiccan. Having lived in the Santa Cruz Mountains you'd think I'd know better. But then I hardly ever wrote my wiccan friends using that term. It does seem that some of the healing practices might be considered Gothic under the most liberal interpretation? greeen ones - You mean like (avert your eyes if you are not protected spirituly - or perhaps I'll just mispell the name so the evil spell of its name does affect you) B.B.Yagga? Also I forgot to put quotes around the statement at the end but then I probably misquoted from "The Lady In White". - Thank you for your reply Micheleh, as well as all others who posted here.

"B.B.Yagga?" What's that? Never heard of it. "Lady in White" Never heard of that one either! Live and learn. Is that anything like 'White Goddess'? I'm not an anything muchist, but the wiccan people I've hung with have been cool. I got a chance to party with Selena Fox and Jim once- they are really kind, very together people. Don't believe the stuff you see on TV, lol!

why suffer fools to live? if someone can't get the message to leave me alone before pissing me off, they deserve to have their lives totally destroyed. maybe having that happen will teach them to respect other peoples right to live their lives as they see fit. only codicil being, as long as they are not causing harm to others by doing so. someone that asks for the harm by not respecting your rights, well they get what they asked for don't they? is a zero tolerance for some issues in my outlook. people into child porn get shafted asap in my book. people that refuse to accept that filling a house with smoke from naroctics, with a child and other non users in the house, is wrong get shafted. this particular Druid, sworn to balance, has a very stark outlook. on some issues there is no grey, only black and white.

Attached Link: http://www.gothics.org/subculture/

Bela Lugosi's Dead: A song released in 1979 on the Small Wonder label by the band Bauhaus. The lyrics are: White on white translucent black capes back on the rack. Bela Lugosi's dead. The bats have left the bell tower, the victims have been bled, red velvet lines the black box. Bela Lugosi's dead. Undead Undead Undead. The virginal brides file past his tomb, strewn with time's dead flowers, bereft in deathly bloom, alone in a darkened room the count. Bela Lugosi's dead. Undead Undead Undead. Oh Bela, Bela's undead.

"why suffer fools to live? if someone can't get the message to leave me alone before pissing me off, they deserve to have their lives totally destroyed." Whatever for? I don't understand. That seems like rather a waste of time and energy. Personally, I'd rather enjoy the people I appreciate than persecute the ones I dont, at no appreciable gain. Just don't totally detroy anyone here, please- it's against the TOS, and it makes a mess. ;]