I have noticed that many people use photoshop to correct things in their images. I am curious about the number of us 3D artists who "doctor" , "change" or "add to" your images after they have been rendered. If you do, what do you think the limits are, if any?

I personally dont like to change things once its been rendered. I think its more fun to challenge myself to get it right in bryce. It's more work but I like it.

What do you think?

I typically do not change anything if I do it may be a minor fix like where the model isn't very smooth, but something minor. But there are some things like one pic I did has a light snow in it with big flake, I added the snow with photoshop rather than insert a hundred or so tiny snowflake objects into bryce. Also the dusting of the snow on boots and stuff was easier to do with an air brush tool. Without it I would have had to make a new texture with the leather of the boots then snow on it, then line it all up and so on, but 3 or 4 quick blasts with airbrush tool and while color was perfect. However, I typically try to avoid post work mainly because I am extremely terrible at it. Heh, I came to realization a long time ago I couldn't draw a strait line if my life depended on it. Thats why I started with Photoshop 3.0 years ago. The line tool in Photoshop helps that tremendously. It lets me draw a straight line no matter how much caffeine I have had in a day. ;-) Anyway, I do not condemn anyone for using it, as I have seen some really amazing stuff done with it. I sometimes wish I was better with it. You can get effects like the powedered snow that at least I havent figured out how to reproduce in Bryce.

I do the same. I use post-work only for render defects - such as artifacts or jaggy edges. I think the real reason people use post-work for big things, i.e. smoke, color enhacing, blurring, etc. is that althought they are possible in bryce, most post-work solutions look better and are easier. I never got caught up in the post work world because for my first year and a half of bryce I was to poor to get a darned graphics app like photshop. In order to encourage more experimentation with these effects in bryce, I am soon to release a tutorial/web section "how to skip the post work," and it will cover different ways to acheive certain effects in bryce that will look like the real thing. For example: lightsaber blades, fireworks, some lens flares, smoke/spot fog, ocean and wave mists, and glossy/sparkly glass effects.

After rendering my Bryce images, I may adjust image levels a bit in photoshop. This is usually the extent of my post render work on a Bryce image. However, I have noticed that many individuals import pre-make objects into their scenes from a variety of sources. When I see these objects, I feel that many of these imports could have been created by using Bryce features creatively. I like pushing software to it's limits. . . . and beyond what the software designers intended!

I flip-flop between the two schools of thought, depending on my mood or the project. (no-post & post-work) Some projects I do nothing to (except sign it) and others are heavily post-worked. The majority of my post-work just relys on just slight tweaks to polish the render. Then, in others, I will use Phgotoshop to do all the d.o.f. blurring instead of waiting for it in Bryce 5, etc. Back and forth. I usually go with the thought "there are no rules", and the only thing that matters is the final image (to a certain degree). But, then again I think I'm most proud of my works that I made with no post-work at all. It is a challenge, and I think with using that limitation from time to time I have had to become more inovative and creative. AgentSmith

Typically I post work to adjust image levels, add certain effects, correct small model flaws, composite work, fixing poser figure's joint and mesh errors. To me it's all just tools to get what's in my head out.

Well all though i dont use Photoshop, i use Adobe Imagestyler, PSP and Universe Image creator instead! There are just some things Bryce cant do! Engine lighting and motionblur for example. 2D picture imports are out of the question for me when it comes to engine flares. You dont get the same effect as the ones made directly in Universe! I always do all the modeling, enviroments, DOF etc in Bryce and postwork the above! I have no limits and use whatever i need to get the image done! But i still like a challenge though... :)

Oh I forgot something, There are times I go the other way for some cool textures. This is the handiest example i had but this is actually a wallpaper for a website. As you can see it was kinda dull and dark but one of the things I wanted to do was lighten it up a bit but still maintain a dungeon like feel to the website. (I build websites for sa living BTW) Anyway i was messing around and was wondering if I could get this image to a higher resolution and I wondered what the antialiasing would do to a 2D picture. So I simply imported the dark one into bryce then was cussing cause it was in the shadow and was even darker, So I threw in some radial lights and hit render imagine my suprise when the lower one popped out. Since then I do this to a lot of my pictured textures and even web wallpapers. Just to see what happens. Like I said I am not a photoshop pro.

Well, I use imported models, and/or sections of them. My latest Bryce pic took a couple months of work and had to be split into 4 separate scene files, which were composited in the last Bryce file using mask renders. If I had tried to completely model everything in the scene from scratch in Bryce, the picture would not be finished for at least another year or TWO - and since booleans are so very memory hungry, the total file size would have been over 1Gb instead of only 260Mb. It's just not realistic for me to stick to the "ideal" of doing everything, absolutely everything, in Bryce. That said, I almost never use an imported object, or material,without making SOME changes in it - sometimes lots of changes. I frequently "kit-bash" (something I did constantly with plastic models as a kid) and use a part of this and a part of that and something created from scratch to get what I really want. Also, where feasible I try to build my own meshes in DesignCad - though I can't do the really complex-curved ones. I always try to keep postwork to an absolute minimum, preferably just to fix some render artifacts such as a bad seam in a Poser figure mesh. Even when it might be much easier to do an effect in Photoshop, I'll try first, and damned hard, to get it in Bryce. I'm always most pleased with a work if I can say "All Bryce, no postwork but signature." It doesn't HAVE to be that way, but that's the way I'd rather go. On the other hand, if it I can't get what I want in Bryce, then I have no qualms at all about fixing it in postwork.

I think the most important thing is the result!When I use programms like Bryce ,Vue or Cinema I prepair textures in photoshop (photographed textures I made before for example). By doing this I assembled a huge library of textures which can be used in diffent programms.The same I do in connection with objects .Some more complex structures can only be created in programms like Cinema (sometimes I spend hours on modelling them before theyre ready).I dont see a lack of creativity in that (as long as I built them).In fact I want to work with the best of each programm,not with the disadvantages every software has.Postwork does not make things easier automatically.The best postwork is the one you dont see and the best image in my eyes is the one you cant recognize the software beeing used. rollmops :-)

Aye, I'm with rollmop, it's all about the final image. I love flexingBryce capabilities and have produced some amazing effects but sometimes I run Photoshop to add a finalized look to an image, and I use Colorific so I have to prep any image in Photoshop before I can print anyway... Still, sometimes using native effects alone makes you feel like a million bucks, like you're on the cuttingedge of something amazing!

For me it's what ever gets the job done, to what I'm trying to accomplish. If it takes rendering in 2 or 3 different 3D packages and combining in PhotoShop, or using plug-in filters, or what ever. For me it's about making digital images and animation. I don't want to be recognized by my piers, for the software I use, I want to be recognized for the images I create with it.

I want both.

Man this thread sure brought all the talent out of the woodwork! As with the rest, I alternate post/no-post depending on the render. The final product is my main goal, and knowing what your tools are capable of makes planning a project that much easier. But Damn, with all of you around I keep finding new ways and methods of creating what I never dreamed of a year or two ago. Main tools, PhotoImpact w/PS plug-ins, Bryce,Poser,Rhino,and a few smaller tweak progs.

I only use post for stuff that is going off-pc. Eg: I might put lensflares on a render with psp if the thing was going to print. The Bryster

I rarely postwork other than my name. For a while I was a Bryce purist and even used Bryce lattice to put my name in there. Now I use postwork to fix small blemishes from time to time if the contest rules allow it. I've seen some fantastic postwork. As far as I'm concerned, postwork isn't a detriment to the final image, its a compliment. If someone looks at an image and says "hey, that's pretty neat" then so be it. If they look and the jaw drops open followed by stunned silence for a while, well, that's better. So who cares if you use Rhino, EIU, Photoshop, Poser, Bryce, Vue, etc, as long as the final image does two things. 1 - satisfies the artist and 2 - inspires the viewer.

My theory is, create the best image you can with any combination of programs to achieve that goal. Postwork opens a lot of new and exciting doors to creativity. To me, the sky's the limit.

but it has to have a cup in it somewhere... (grin)

All I do to rendered images is convert them to JPG. If I ever touch up a rendered image, I certainly wouldn't call it a Bryce rendered image afterwards. It would simply be an altered pic, regardless of where it originated from. Some photographers alter their prints. I'll crop what I don't want in the scene. SHONNER http://www.shonner.com

Interesting point of view. I confess that I always thought of it as cheating but I think I understand things better now. I might try it someday. I agree that if you can improve an image then maybe you should. I guess to sum up my take on this I will just say...for some the joy is in the arrival. For some it is in the journey. Thanks everyone for posting! Please keep it up.

Wow! what I just said makes no sense now...Hmm

One person says, "Look what I made!" The other says, "Look what I made with Bryce!" The best image you make is the one you weren't limited with. But it's still fun to see what you can do using just Bryce. SHONNER http://www.shonner.com

The whole 3D and CG business is about Illusion guys/gals That's what makes this an art form, I don't care who you are or how good you are as an artist, you will always look back on your work and pull a HOMER moment where you go DOH! I shoulda done that or changed that, So post work is like death and taxes, it's something you have to deal with in a production world/environment to make a living doin this sorta thing. Nothing is ever perfect, nothing is ever right, it's just a limit in the biz you have to live with heheh.

A cup? Heheheheee. Well, ok, so I play with post work more than I let on at times. This was a logo render in Bryce, a cup render in Bryce (cup made in Electric Image Universe) and the logo render overlayed on the cup post work. Did that to ditch the logo reflections and still keep the glass reflections.

An artist uses whatever tools are at hand to realise the result. One use of postwork not mentioned above that I have recourse to occasionally: I do some really long render and then discover when it's finished that some small detail is wrong. I do NOT want to wait for another render, so I correct the detail, do a little plop-render of the affected area, and then patch this into the complete image file. The result is a considerable saving of time.

Yes,you`re right !

I mostly spend about 30 minutes on post on every image. Now, I always do colour correction of some sort, and sometimes stuff like clothes for Poser figures and motion blur. I'll always clone out straight lines, too, especially shadows on bumpmaps, which Bryce doesn't map. But then again I've never spent more than 10 hrs on any image (as far as I recall) so 30 mins out of an average of 3-4hrs is quite a bit, I suppose. A bit off-topic, but I totally envy people who have the patience to work weeks or months on a single image. I guess that's a skill I've yet to learn. But it seems like the ones I take longest over are my worst ones! My quickest was <1hr !

EricofSD, lovely image! What I was tongue in cheek was referring to was ocddoug's wonderfully quixotic "life and times of a cup" series (and the occasional stray cup in some of his other images)

Generally I do a ton of work post, as there's no way Bryce can do all I wish. Painting hair to get it looking good on poser imported models. Special effects like flares, fire. Adjusting ligthing in odd ways. Using Dodge and Burn tools to create effects/chnages/highlights. Plugins for stars, flames, smoke and so on. Anything that gets me to the final desired item ;)

Aye, I think one thing that is key to the Bryce Purist philosophy is, "Can you animate it?", and the sad truth is that for some silly reason, you can't animate the Trees! (i.e., no wind or physics or gravity) So does that make the Treelab truly native Bryce? Fuzzy logic, but it's something I think Corel should have thought of when making the Tree Lab. But there's a million things one can pull into Bryce and still keep it a Bryce render, like lens flares and lightning effects! Would those effects count as postwork or prework? I'll do it all, it's not like I have a monogamous relationship with a silly (but totally awesome) program!

For the first few years Brycing, I NEVER did postwork, save for JPEG conversion and signature. Bryce was all I needed at the time. Then I became weary of the Bryce "look," but didn't want to change programs. So I started experimenting with Painter Classic, Ultimate FX (one of these days I'll get Photoshop). I would guess that I use postwork on 95% of the images I post. It just depends on whether or not the image can be improved with some adjustments. Also, postwork can be fun :-)

My opinion is, if you got the tools, use them. I did some postwork on my latest contest entry... added some bubbles that I knew I couldn't do in Bryce (others might have been able to, not me). So the 'Bryce purists' might say that it is no longer a Bryce image. So what? I would never try say that image is 100% Bryce created. But I will definitely let it be known that I used Bryce to create it, and it will go in the Bryce gallery, not 2D or Painter or Photoshop, because Bryce was the main tool used. So put me in the category that says the ends justifies the means. If it feels good, do it.