CL's use of a "challenge code/response" they claim is to keep people honest. Seems to me they are only harassing the people who are putting their money on the line for the new version. The warez people WILL have the crack for this security system within a few hours after the program hits the market the same as they had the crack for the Microsoft XP activation system (the one that couldn't be broken..lol). This crack will be all over the Internet within hours. If the folks at CL think their security system is going to protect them from the warez pirates, they are only kidding themselves. There is no such thing as a security system that can't be broken. All they are doing is pissing off a lot of cash customers who are the core of their success.

Yer not wrong mate Should we start up a competition to see who can guess the date a crack for Poser5 comes out ?? Just for a giggle

I'v got dibs on the day after its in people's mailboxes!

5 minutes after the official release.

CL knows this of course. I'm betting they're doing it to placate investors who know nothing about this stuff and how it always pans out.

I forgot to answer the poll. I'm guessing there's already a crack.

I agree with martian. The only reason the warez peope are waiting is for the actual release, so CL won't be able to change it before shipping.

I'm guessing that someone already leaked the beta so cracking the final version is somewhat irrelevant. It's really sad to think that way but it happens all the time.

'five minutes' or 'already a crack' would mean, CL was cracked or one of the crackauthors is sitting in the CL-office. Both would be very interesting (think of the promised security of your personal data) but I really can,t believe that (the second choice). Now I really would like to read a confirmation and clarification from CL about the used protection. I losed a lot of money and months of work in a situation like this. (cad software with hardwaredongle - company out of buiseness - dongle crashed - new software needed and the old projects are not compatible to the new software). I don,t go this way again. Now there is a good offer from maxon to upgrade to release8 ... Robert

cracked XP...you're loking in the wrong places...

My personal guess is that the crack will appear within 12 hours of Poser 5 shipping. Reb

I thing the CL group is small and very close so no one there will leak a crack. Their beta testers seem to be the trustworthies we know so I doubt that will be the source. No, I say the warez person/persons have already ordered and paid for their copy and are waiting for delivery just like the rest. I say it will be 1 day after the first folks start getting theirs in the mail. They either are the ones who will crack it or their buddies will. I also predict that they will ,over the next 2 weeks of ownership, claim so many problems that they want their money back. With enough complaining, CL probably will refund them.

LDAP CRAM-MD5, RSA key exchange, whatever..., it's probably not relevant. Rumors of a security scheme have probably already had a negative effect on CL P5 sales, because casual users will delay purchase until the controversy is resolved. I'm betting CL drops CR before it is cracked. Keith

'five minutes' or 'already a crack' would mean, CL was cracked or one of the crackauthors is sitting in the CL- office. Both would be very interesting (think of the promised security of your personal data) but I really can,t believe that (the second choice).

CL uses a third party tool for the P5 security stuff. Those security tools are usually part of several different applications from different developers. It is a good guess that this security tool is used and cracked already. For a cracker it is probably as simple as pointing his cracker utilities from application xyz.exe to poser5.exe and the crack is ready.
But I think it dosen't matter. In former messages CL stated that they will generate at least 3 different response codes per Poser 5 serial, so piracy is possible even without a crack.

I will buy the update anyway, because I preorderd from Softline before I did know of this activation code and it is to exhausting to cancel an order from them. ;P

Protection is not going to prevent cracks. It prevents casual theft, a big difference. You lock your car don't you? But anyone with a brick and a crowbar can break into your car and steal it so why do you bother locking it? Why not just leave it unlocked with the keys in the ignition? You lock it because that cuts down a huge portion of opportunity or casual theft. Its one thing to have someone smash your window. Its another if they can just get into your car with the keys in the ignition and drive off. How many times have we heard about the moron who pulls up to 7-11 and leaves his BMW running to go in and buy something and someone just hops in the car and drives off. Heck, even insurance won't pay on that. CL isn't going to stop cracks. They are trying to stop casual copying. Also, legally, if they do not make an effort to activily protect their product they lose their right to pursue theives. They must show they are making an active effort to protect their property. Also, they do have a right to make $$$ and stay in business and protect that business investment. Quite frankly, from what I read, the registration is no different than registering Max. You go online, get the unlock code and you're set to go. I think this is a big stink over nothing. Also I think if they did not make an effort to protect their property I as a paying customer would be insulted. Why should I pay when others get the product for free cause it has 0 copy protection. CL is supposed to be a socialist charity? Copy protection is also a way to respect your paying customers by making their purchase valuable. They paid so they get to use the product. People who don't pay shouldn't benifit.

Max is giving you an "unlock" code as does Autodesk with their program Autocad. The difference between an unlock code and what CL is doing is clear. My Autocad unlock code will work every time I install the program into my computer. It never changes. So far the company I work for has needed to re-install the program at least 9 times in the past 12 months. Each time the "unlock code" works because it never changes as does the "unlock code" from CL. What do you plan on doing if CL goes under or if they sell to another company that will not honor the CL unlock code?

You folks don't get out much, do you? I got my poser 5 from a scruffy guy in a trench coat outside of the local "7-11." He got it from someone who cracked it from the video and images Kupa posted here the 1st few daze.

A point that was made by CL is that if you have to format your hard drive and re-install, the same "unlock code" will work; providing that you install it on the same hard drive. No need to call them up again. However, changing hard drives is another matter. If one is going to be paranoid, at least be paranoid over something that is worth being paranoid over, such as what Dubya has in store.

Is there not one person among you who thinks this security thing might work? I mean what if it does, and CL has the last laugh. I'm not taking the bet, but I wish them the best of luck. The way I see it is that if CL turns a good profit, it will only help this community. They will be able to make more and better upgrades and patches. And will not need to spend all their time tracking down warez sites.

Even if this would work, don,t you see where all this leads to?

Buy a new computer and start to install your software. The next thing you have to do is to setup a serialmail. No not one mail to receive your new serial, one to microsoft for your system, one to microsoft for your office, one to pixologic for zbrush, one to CL for Poser5, one to ...

and what if you don,t have web access and if you don,t live in the staates? Do you think all this people outside the US should pay the high cost for calling outside their country to USA for the serial every time to every company?
or if the company goes out of buiseness?
Like I wrote, I had have this problem and lost a lot!! of money.

btw. One thing to CL: On my opinion, ignoring this isn,t a very good thing.

Robert

Roy, to answer your first question, no, I don't think so. As for the rest of your post, I sincerely hope you are right. And I agree it would help CL's profit line. I really we're proven wrong on this issue, and maybe we will be. I for one am basing my opinion on only what has happened in the past. And anyone who believes cracks don't exist before software's released doesn't get out much. :)

I meant to say, "I really hope we're proven wrong..." Where's that darned "Edit Post" button?

Robert, how many people here don't have web access? Poser is only sold (as far as I know) on the web.

Softline, a german company, sells over Web and send real paper catalogs to the people and if I remember right, I saw Poser4 in a local warehouse. Robert

Poser is only sold (as far as I know) on the web. no, no, no!!! there was a guy at the fleamarket on sunday, with a whole bunch of poser 5s. i was short on cash, and only bought maya. hope to go back next weekend ;*)

No it's avaliable through stores, mail order, etc. And I live in Australia, what am I supposed to do if I change Hard Drives? RInging the states seems highly unfair...

This is an interesting thread. I've held off ordering my P5 upgrade 'cause I just don't like buying a pig in a poke. After reading this thread I may never buy it because I sure don't like what I hear about this "protection" scheme. A simple unlock key that works over & over is OK, but I don't like what CL apparently plans to do. Don't forget, Poser is already a stepchild -- even its parent, MC, abandoned it so who can say what CL may decide to do?

I definitely am getting P5. And I am definiitely against someone getting a "cracked" version for free while I have paid. My question is...when I get the new computer I plan to get around January, if I get P5 now and put it on the computer I have now...what happens when I get my new computer and want to move everything to it? Will this be a problem? Should I wait til January to get P5 when I get my new computer or not? This is all very confusing.

even its parent, MC, abandoned it so who can say what CL may decide to do? okay, i think if all was going as well at cl with this 5 project....we would have seen more examples of features, other than judy and, don. from what i read in another thread, even the conferences at the dragon con convention, failed to show much of p5 that we have not seen in the forums. these last few weeks have been major marketing opportunities for cl to post "teasers" of some of the new functions in public forums....on a number of sites. i don't know about the rest of you, but, i've basically only seen judy and don, nicely lit, and textured. i'm not getting poser 5 right away. i wonder if it is ready for prime time. if i'm the buyer, and you want my money....convince me. convince me that i would be better off buying a new poser than saving my money towards a new computer, or lightwave, or, even the new rhino, and, or zbrush. the rest of the world, who glibly steals....errr convinces me to part with my money, does their little dance to show me why they (above all others, bow down) deserve it. with poser 5....they simply say...hey...new version...new dork, new posette, other things that we for some reason cannot really show you yet....i would hand over my money real fast if that face room works right....just trust us, and, order in advance. when will you get it? hummm....when we get around to sending it out. i am a small company, too....in rinky dink florida. i'd be living on the beach, if that is how i conducted business. maybe, i am just old fashioned...but, you need to show folks what you can do for them, and, convince them that they NEED that to catch a client. cl has not much done this. well, those who want to remain "in fashion" in the poser gallery, must buy, immediately. what better toy has been announced in years, even.

While we're at it, why don't we all lobby our governments to repeal laws against murder? After all, the real evil scumbag murderers just murder people anyway. In fact, the real evil murderers figured out how to murder people despite the laws against murder...some still don't get caught, even today. The laws against murder do nothing but inconvenience the normally law-abiding people who just want to do the occasional murder to help out a friend or family member. Yes, I know that's childish. Do you?

Well, all I know is that the issue of future non support is already an industry known problem. Also, I do plan on upgrading my HD to something faster than ata100. The labor that goes into such a change can be intensive and this only increases the labor (at my expense). That's what bothers me. I'm tired of the expense. It also means I can't have it on the laptop for when I'm on the road and that's a disappointment too. I wonder if its possible, or even feasable, to force a log in screen with a password. That way I can use it at home or on the road. And if the password gets passed around the warez sites, well, CL will know right away who let it out.

EricofSD, Who said you can't put it on your laptop as well. the EULA is quite generous on that matter and it was stated that you can get at least three response codes befor red flags come up at CL. and even then the counter can be easily reset with a phone call or email to cust, service (I believe it was starlet who stated that). realy people are jumping to conclusions here, why not wait a few weeks and find out directly from those who preordered if you are hesitant. I preordered and intend on installing on both my home and work computer so will let you know (by the way I also went out and got WinXP the first day it came out and was never unhappy with my decision.

Good to hear about the laptop issue. I'm planning on upgrading my computer as well, and P5 would not be the only app for which I may have to do re-registration. A hassle? Yes. Will I live? Yes. And while it may sound cold, I have a hard time working up sympathy for anyone who is upgrading their HD so frequently that it becomes a major problem (with the possible exception of business use). As for wastes of time, one need go no further than this thread for one. The fact is that CL tried this once, but relented in the face of complaints of the very type made here ad nauseum for at least a week now. Then CL implemented this system for their other products, so they have an idea of the degree to which the system affects their sales and piracy of their work. Knowing something about the costs (including the cost of the third-party security vendors) and benefits, CL chose to implement it with P5 also. The inference to be drawn is fairly obvious, isn't it? Of course, members here are free to complain to the extent that the mods and the ToS allow. I have one tiny request. If you want to continue to beat a dead horse, could you at least title your post something like "Beating a dead horse about P5 security," or "Repeating the arguments against P5 security codes, in case you missed them last hour?"

I have used "cracked" software before. P4 is not one of them. To me, P4, is the easiest,best piece of 3D software out there. Out of the box, a person can create somethng...art. I come from a family of artists...3 generations...! I'm not one of them. When I first saw Poser, I said to my self,"I will pay for this. It's what I've been looking for all my life!" A person with a vision,picture... can put it to "canvas" I am by no means a Poser expert. But to anyone wanting to put/illustrate there thoughts to image...Poser is the ONE !!!! Thanks(though you had no choice) for listening to my ramblings...! Ming

even its parent, MC, abandoned it so who can say what CL may decide to do? I thought Larry Weinberg was the parent, in which case CL is as much or more the parent than Meta. CL is good people. I trust them. :)

wdupre, I've already preordered. Thanks for setting me strait.

kbade! "The laws against murder do nothing but inconvenience the normally law-abiding people who just want to do the occasional murder to help out a friend or family member" MY COUSIN WAS MURDERED LAST YEAR - THANKS FOR BRINGING BACK THE MEMORY!!! CL's Protection Racked won't work unless they throw more money at it than Mico$oft. Remember their first Patch was to stop you using P4 on two machines that were network? This isn't about piracy (Professional or casual) It's about making one person pay twice to use it on two computers - that's greed! Pure and simple!

Realy LOGO, sorry about your cousin, but if the mere mention of murder gets you so upset you must not get out of the house much, Kblade was just Illustrating what they feel is the rediculousness of the argument. As I have stated before compare CL's EULA whith that of any commercial software company out there and you will find it far less limiting in it's language. It's not just greed, it's a matter of simple survival. CL is a small company if they let everyone freely distribute copys to friends and coworkers they will not make enough to survive. it is very much about piracy otherwise they wouldn't say you can load it onto more then one computer for your own use. as I said most software doesn't even allow that, look at your windows EULA sometime.

Well, I am just wondering about getting a new code is I buy a new system. If I buy a nwe system and try to authorize my version/serial number will that send up a red flag that it's a warezed copy because it was already authorized? I prefer the idea of having to have the disc in the drive on the first run.

CL knows that people will upgrade their systems on occasion. as I said before, this question came up in another thread and starlit said resetting the counter would be as simple as contacting them. there will also be a grace period on new instalations to give plenty of time for registration.

wdupre You appear to value corporate profits higher than human life... That's so sad.

It's CL's decision if/what anti-piracy measures to employ. Nope, there is no "hack-proof" protection for software, but anything is better than nothing. The method they've chosen seems fair and relatively non-invasive, especially compared to some of the other tools we've all seen. I'm also convinced, from my own and other's experiences, that they can be reasoned with if you set off their "flag." This is not some behemoth company like microsoft, it's a fairly small group of folks working hard to make a living, and providing us with great "toys" at a very reasonable price in the process.

Logo, I work for no corperation, so who's profits am I supposed to value Higher then Human life? I don't think so. I just call em as I see em, I thought you reacted rather vehemently to Kblades analagy. sorry if I hurt your feelings.

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