Lon Chaney, The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Now our Lon Chaney is the Lattice King ! Remember that Lon ? I have learned a ton from him in the Bryce newsgroup and from his tutorials. A major talent, imho

Could you guys at least send smarter, more articulate shills? This current batch aren't even worth poking at. Better yet, how about dropping by to address the rabble--meaningful input from you would be most welcome. Don't be afraid--we won't hurt you!

"I've never denied this being a clone account."

I'll never trust someone who does this. It's cowardice to not stand by your opinions with your one and only screen name.

I don't have a real problem with Mongo. At least he's stated early on a few times being a clone nick. I don't agree with the reasoning on that - me, I'll say what I think under the nick I always use, and let other people deal with me on those terms.

It's cowardice to not stand by your opinions with your one and only screen name.<<< " Those who fight and run away...live to fight another day".
Let me ask this. How many mods/admins have clone accounts? More than you could shake your self-righteous stick at. But none of this has anything to do with the current topic. Only diversion's created by the shills. I've stated my opinion and walked the walk while I talked the talk.
Vios con dios, Amigos!

public company - you again have your terms wrong there Lon Chaney. Renderosity is a privately owned "company", however they claim to be a "private club" making them exempt from laws concerning free speech and all the other little amendments that US citizens are given along with ethical standards regarding contests etc.. This site is USA based so they are ruled by USA laws. Problem is - there are no requirements to join 'rosity - therefore it can be argued they are not a private club at all. A private club limits memberships and decides via an application and voting process who joins. This doesn't happen here, that means that 'rosity is liable under the law to act in a fair noin-discriminating manner. Awhile back they tried to say that being a "private club" prevented them from having to answer in regards to the charity fund that artists donated to. Wrong! Even a private club must answer to those making donations - even if all they donate is $1.00 or less. "I have more ethics and higher standards that you'll ever know. For one I would never have even thought of doing what you did." Well theres a lot of puffing up if I ever heard it - generally people only claim to be better than otherswhen they have nothing else to fall back on. Egotism and pride aren't ethical or moral you know ;-D Ethics require that you do not commit slanderous and libelous acts - you have done both in your accusations. As for Billy J, you come out of nowhere - and behave as if you know the past happenings of the site intmately - so either you are a clone who really does - or simply looking to further controversy. Many here have seen this happen with contests all too often. Theemoticon contest is a good example. Moderator starts contest, moderator enters contest, moderator wins contest at least she turned down the prizes - and there were good prizes involved (although she had some not so nice things to say about certain members after the whole thing happened - but that was private and frankly shouldn't have been made publice - but hey I was mentioned so that was kind of cool, even though it showed they don't like me - glad I'm not sensitive. :-D) You should be able top post your opinion, but don't get holier than thou with those who have seen it and been through it when you weren't. If indeed you weren't here to go through this before than you can not possibly understand teh frustration of the members that it is ahappening yet again. Sure people could leave, but many of us actually do like it here on some level. Some of us havebeen treated very unfairly by the admins, we stay because despite them we mainly like the site on some level. That doesn't mean that we have to grin and bear the unfairness of their activities while saying nothing. Besides if we want news and updates regarding Poser 5 we have to come here to get it, to see the progress (or not) in the beta forum. So a mistake was made in retgards to posting the poll - then another mistake was made in posting it on the frontpage to announce that members should vote, further mistakes were made in various forums reminding members to vote - All one big mistake ok - fine. But once the mistake was made a reputable company would have "sucked it up" continued the voting and dealt with it - insuring it never happened again. Do you think Bush asked his friends to vote for him? Does that mean that the presidential election should be pulled from now on and only congress should have a say? I mean come on even ToxicAngel has said that he didn't think this was right at all. IB I thought at first that you said that 3DA had that "horny" feeling and thought maybe it was time to cut down on my leather wear lol

">>> It's cowardice to not stand by your opinions with your one and only screen name.<<< " Those who fight and run away...live to fight another day". "

First of all, learn to quote Mongo. I said the first part. Not the second.

"Let me ask this. How many mods/admins have clone accounts? More than you could shake your self-righteous stick at."

And I'd tell them the very same thing. I don't care who it is, it's still cowardice.

"But none of this has anything to do with the current topic. Only diversion's created by the shills."

It has everything to do with it when anyone uses their clones to cause problems in the forums. I have no use for anyone who tries to keep their real identity squeaky clean while hiding behind a clone. Hypocritical.

"I've stated my opinion and walked the walk while I talked the talk. "

Lol, this from a clone account. Priceless. Do it with your real screen name and it might actually mean something.

Heh heh. Lesse... Kendra: 3, Mongo: 1 so far. And the countdown to the final quarter continues as the fans go WILD! ;] Ummm... you mean I didn't say "horny feeling", LSM? Damn. Typos got me. "This Renderotica place is certainly something I have never thought possible, wow, I knew there were adult picture sites but adult art sites like this? Is it even safe to go in there?" Yeah, BillyJ... might want to take Doc's advice. ;] We won't go into why that admin hates indians. hastily hides Iegume's scalp behind back

Hey McFly! What are you, chicken? Heh,heh.

on clones i'm poppi. i've been poppi since day one on the web. i'm not about to make up a fictionalized persona to come in here and say what i would like to say, myself. that's just slim, shadey stupid. period. i think some of us are more than just a screen name. it would be very hard for me to make a clone who did not sound just like, me...poppi. more trouble than it would be worth. (of course, i live in a fairytale world where stuffing is wrong, even when prizes are at stake...and, where changing the rules midstream is wrong, as well.) clones...well, personally, if i am not acquainted with someone's screenname, i am a little leery of them....then, if i look for a gallery and there is non...red flags dance around in front of my eyes. call it a reaction to "stranger danger", if you will. the folks that i enjoy here are the ones with a style of their own. perhaps, some are really good at this "cloning" business. however, i think that becoming a clone would be having to really cut down on one's personal "style". geeze, that's how bebop keeps getting caught, y'all.

geeze, that's how bebop keeps getting caught, y'all. I dunno... Bebop's "Tisa" clone lasted for well over 8 months until I got off my lazy butt and finally outed him/her, and the admins saw the accusation. He prolly created the clone the very day he got banned from R'osity the second time. I have my suspicions about some of the more recent err, 'supporters' that have arrived around here (with damned few exceptions), and I dare say that some of 'em are admin-created clones anyhow, created so they can 'let rip' when their usual 'nym is otherwise required to show restraint. But wahey - it ain't my job to police the clones, and if the admins and shills wanna play with the regulars' minds, then so be it... their games only work when the victim is ignorant of being played. Besides, have ye noticed that the admins have been conspicuously, err, 'absent' all this time? Nobody leaves a forum unwatched, esp. over the holidays when everyone's home. At any rate, enjoy the game - I certainly am :) /P

"and I dare say that some of 'em are admin-created clones anyhow, created so they can 'let rip' when their usual 'nym is otherwise required to show restraint." Or CL created clones, eh Pengy? ;] shrug I enjoy the game, obviously, that's why I keep observing it. But I never, ever [or seldom ever], take it seriously.

Indeed - after getting their paws smacked the last time a CL employee went off on someone... (insert evil grin here.) And yeah - taking this stuff seriously on a constant basis is a sure way to get an ulcer... and I enjoy hot foods and pizza way too much to flirt with a stomach-hole. It's be pretty funny when - nah. No sense in giving up the gameplan yet... I want to see if he realizes it first :) (check yer IM, foo'.)

sticks out tongue at Pengy I've been trying my damndest to IGNORE my IM's, dammit. ;]

Thats okay, I fully understand. But, would it have made any difference if I did'nt come forward and admit to this being an "alternate" account? I feel as if I have a right to protect my business, and if I need to go about it this way, then so be it. Too many times have I faced retaliation/lynch mobs in response to my voicing my opinion. sorry to say, but that seems to be the state of affairs in this day and age. i stopped judging a person character on the basis of their artwork and the number of pieces after seeing a program on artists in prison. Some are very prolific and do beautiful work, but that does'nt change the fact that they are criminals.

I sense a lot of insecurities here many times over among some of you people. It would seem that as soon as someone comes out and has a difference of opinion from the popular folks here that like to scream or shake this joint up, then right away they are cast off as some kind of clone person or some shady member that has somehow managed to resurrect themselves as someone new for mischeivious or devious deeds. Or even worse, the hinted accusation of an admin that see's some reason to come here as someone else to rip into all the nay here and vary a difference. Are you all so naive enough to believe this? Is no one allowed to have a difference of opinion here?? I do not understand why someone cannot have a mind of their own around here without being accused of some form of shrillery. I suppose this is a way for some of you to avoid contraversy to your own ideals and beliefs about this place; is it really so important to have this art forum appear like some crooked outfit and is no one allowed to have a different opinion than you without making them out like they are some kind of shady member? Some of you folks really need to get over yourselves.

We could say the same about you.

I'd gotten over myself eons ago :p Maybe someone oughta set up a wager pool or something. BTW err, "Billy"... it's okay, dude. No need to get all defensive about it. :) /P

For a person who has apparently just joined the site, Mr. Billy J. certainly seems quite upset. For some reason, I just have this picture in my mind of someone walking into a biker bar and declaring "Holy Cripes! This place is a MESS! The bathroom door is broken, there's a bunch of guys hollering at each other in the back room...bottles and cigarette butts everywhere...Oh UGHH! And is that a BLOODSTAIN?!? Where is the Manager, anyway? What a DUMP you guys have made out of this place...It's like a ZOO where the animals are running around out of their cages...Why, you people oughta be ashamed of yourselves!...."

"why someone cannot have a mind of their own around here without being accused of some form of shrillery." Why not? We have minds of our own that just happen to dissagree with yours - and you're accusing people of being insecure? Because they don't think like your "mind of your own"? snicker Yah - does seem like he has his knickers all in a twist, poor fellow, doesn't he Kolschey? ;]

Kendra sez in #172:

It's cowardice to not stand by your opinions with your one and only screen name.

Oh, the irony of this is just so delicious that it's going
into my usenet .signature file right now!

"Oh, the irony of this is just so delicious that it's going
into my usenet .signature file right now!"

(smile) Sorry, I hold the copyright. :) < /joke >

I thought about that when I wrote it but there is a huge difference in keeping personal information private and posting under different screen names in the same site. :)

Why don'r we all get together and sing Christmas Carols?

Now look what you did - Rad's evil twin Skippy followed you in from OT forum. Are you happy now? ;]

_Peter suggests in #193:

Why don'r we all get together and sing Christmas Carols?

I just got done watching Full Metal Jacket. So
with that in mind:

Happy birthday to you!
Happy birthday to you!
Happy birthday, dear Jesus!
Happy birthday to you!

Just because s**t rolls downhill does'nt mean I'm going to stare 'ol deery-eyed in it's path.
Full Metal Jacket. Wow!.... does that bring back mammaries.
Although I missed the draft by a year or two, that did'nt relinqiush me of the opportunity of working under supervisors who did their tour. Yowzah!!! Emery is the perfect D.I. to give this X?,Y?,Z? generation some hair to go with their shrivelled set.
(I'm sorry, was I not politically correct? Dearie me!)

I want to thank kbennett for responding to these threads and any other mod that has participated. : ) First, I must clarify the AOM are polls not contests. Contests on Renderosity are where members submit work and receive a prize if win. We also have sweepstakes sometimes where members can submit information for goodies. The AOM and AOY is neither a contest or sweepstakes it is a vote. We have had the AOM for a few years now...since fall of 1999. We prefer to have the members nominate and then vote, but found this to be full of clones and difficult to keep track. We pulled this due to member request, being an unfair process, and lack of the validity of the process. Trying to keep this process we implemented something to track clones, but this began to take way too much time of an admin and could not be justified. After several unhappy discussions from admins, mods, and members in continued threads about how the AOM was being handled, admins changed to a nominating committee. This was to be an unbiased group that selected on work and talent. This process worked in the beginning but without a dedicated admin to manage the communications, it began to fail. We pulled this process 2-3 months ago and implemented the mods/admins nominating system. We knew that this process would be better because of the ease of communication and knew the team would be objective, therefore making a more fair nomination process for the AOM. Plus we found a decrease in clone voting with the nominating committee process and wanted to continue this way. Seems we elimated the popularity piece, not sure that is good or not, but seems to be a more fair voting process. As I have said before, we have not been able to get the AOM quite there where all members agree...might not be able to make that happen with this event due to many issues all the way around the AOM. The best way we know is to try different ways and see if it gets better. As of now this is the best process, we have discovered. The AOY was first implemented last year and was changed due to inproper voting. It should have been setup like last year, but I messed that up. I know that it does not come across very professional with how the AOY went up, then down, then up and then down. In my opinion it was not very professional but I had to make it right. There was lack of communication with the admin team and therefore it was not the best presented. That was my fault, no other admin or mod. At this time, all I can do for that error is to apology for how it was implemented this year. I am not very happy with myself on how this came off. I will be taking the suggestions that members are presenting as well as mods and discussing with admins. It may be several weeks before you hear back on this issue, but we will keep you updated. We are interested in getting the AOM as fair as we can with voting, until then the AOY will continue to be voted by the admin and mods at this time. thanks tammy

Tammy - Tammy, Thank you, I for one appreciate you responding. Perhaps a voting committee would be best - the members kept anonymous and serving on the committee for a set number of months. With a different committee for the AOY. I think that to prevent member concerns in regards to the "top merchant" winners that perhaps the committee should include a few admins/mods, a few merchants and a few non-merchants. Just my .o2

Question: Does AOM/AOY come with prizes or not? If it does, it is a contest in every legal sense of the word. As for keeping track of clones, how hard is it for someone to code a simple IP-checking facility into a vote? It takes very few lines of code written by a competent programmer. If this Bondware thingy is such a bargain and so worth buying, then why can't it run a simple vote with IP-checking and a simple facility to allow admins to add ban-lists of open proxies? (Incidentally, the odds of two dial-up users getting pinged with the same IP whilst voting is nearly astronomical. A dial-up user trying to redial frequently to get new IP's would require more time than it is worth just to get another IP due to DHCP lease expiry settings that most ISP's have.) Now, with all that out of the way, do tell why it is so hard for a site to run a vote, when scores of smaller sites using the simple and free (and far more flexible) php Nuke suite can vote on something without a hitch? Again, Bondware is being upstaged - this time by a free GPL'd utility. I'd strongly suggest that the folks who coded this site take a step back and make sure all that effort is worth it, esp. in light of the explanations I've seen so far. /P

I am not a programmer, so I may not be the best to answer these quesitons. I will however pass this on to one of our programmers. Might be a good suggestion. : ) The AOMs do not receive prizes only recognition. We do give an award to the AOY but these are not announced before the voting. Meaning it is not promoted and no one knows what will be awarded. This is an award event that is selective to only those AOMs, this is not considered a contest but might fall within the state law of giving an award. We are not misusing member data or keeping the award, so I think it is ok. tammy

My two cents. Although it may not be considered a contest, it still is.If the AOY is culled from the AOM, then in a sense the members are picking a potential AOY.
SYLLABICATION:
contest
PRONUNCIATION:
knst'
NOUN:

1. A struggle for superiority or victory between rivals. 2. A competition, especially one in which entrants perform separately and are rated by judges. See synonyms at conflict .
   VERB:
   Inflected forms: contested , contesting , contests
   (k?n-tst knst')
   TRANSITIVE VERB:
2. To compete or strive for. 2. To call into question and take an active stand against; dispute or challenge: contest a will. See synonyms at oppose .
   INTRANSITIVE VERB:
   To struggle or compete; contend: contested with other bidders for the antique.
   ETYMOLOGY:
   Probably from French conteste, from contester, to dispute, from Old French, to call to witness, from Latin contestr : com-, com- + testis, witness; see trei- in Appendix I.
   OTHER FORMS:
   contestble ADJECTIVE
   con'testaion (kn't-sth?n) NOUN
   contestr NOUN
   NOUN:
3. A trial of skill or ability: competition, meet1. See CONFLICT. 2. A vying with others for victory or supremacy: battle, competition, corrivalry, race, rivalry, strife, striving, struggle, tug of war, war, warfare. See CONFLICT.
   VERB:
4. To strive against (others) for victory: compete, contend, emulate, rival, vie. See CONFLICT. 2. To take a stand against: buck, challenge, dispute, oppose, resist, traverse. See SUPPORT.
   Also if a award is not annouced before it is given (how bizzare!) Then no one would be the wiser I assume.Member Joe could get round trip airline tickets, while Member doe gets a poster. Not fair at all. I really admire your bravery tammync in coming forward in defense. But quite a bit of the explanations do not seem to make sense to me or others.

"Meaning it is not promoted and no one knows what will be awarded" Last year the "award" ("1) A Renderosity Shirt, Cap and Mug. 2) Admission to Siggraph 2002. 3) 5 night hotel accommodations while at Siggraph 2002. 4) Artist of the Year plaque") Was announced at the time the AOY "poll" was put up.

Yes last years award was announced and this year's we did not.

When there is compensation in any form being offered, then it could (and probably would) be considered a contest; whether an "open contest" to the public or a "closed contest" to only AOM recipients, regardless whether the compensation has been disclosed publicly or not.

"We are not misusing member data or keeping the award, so I think it is ok."

Suggested reading material before making such a statement again...

Tennessee Code : TITLE 47 COMMERCIAL INSTRUMENTS AND TRANSACTIONS : CHAPTER 18 CONSUMER PROTECTION : PART 1 CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT OF 1977 : 47-18-120. Definitions - Prizes offered as inducements - Unfair or deceptive practices.

Tennessee Code : TITLE 47 COMMERCIAL INSTRUMENTS AND TRANSACTIONS : CHAPTER 18 CONSUMER PROTECTION : PART 1 CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT OF 1977 : 47-18-124. Prizes - Unfair or deceptive practices.

"This is an award event that is selective to only those AOMs, this is not considered a contest but might fall within the state law of giving an award."

Strange as it may seem, the law governing awards is the exact same law that governs contests(Prize, Gift, and Award Law)...

1. "Prize" means a gift, award, incentive promotion, or other item or service of value. "Prize" includes, but is not limited to, anything of value that is offered or awarded to a participant in a real or purported contest, competition, sweepstakes, puzzle, drawing, incentive offer, premium promotion or similar promotional offer by whatever name the company uses, scheme, plan, or other selection process;

(3) The offeror is in violation of this part if at any time the offeror:
(A) Misrepresents in any manner the rules, terms, restrictions, monetary obligations or conditions of participation in the promotional plan or offer;

What, you mean you can't run a site on "I think it is ok"? ;)

Wow! This is turning out to be the Titanic/ Enron of web sites. And they say that only one-third of the iceberg is above water. Hmmm...

Like many others here, I'm coming to the conclusion that the managers of this site aren't capable of running a fair and legal contest. It's downright embarrassing. I haven't heard so much parsed language and contorted logic since Bill Clinton said "it depends what the meaning of 'is' is."

Or, "we are not misusing membership data". I'm kinda foggy as to when I signed any kind of release to have any of my data used. Be it used or (who determines) be it misused. What exactly determines the difference between "use" and "mis-use"? What some may consider "use" others may consider "mis-use".
If I only had a brain.

Thanks elgeneralisimo. I could not find the specific information on the contest. Very Helpful. Even though we had the rules listed on the AOM page, we were not specific to how the AOY would be voted. This has been updated. I apologize to everyone for how this year's AOY has been handled. thanks tammy

"Thanks elgeneralisimo. I could not find the specific information on the contest. Very Helpful." You owe him $500 in legal fees now. Want him to do the taxes, too? Clean up the egg off everything? Apologies don't mean anything without action. "I'm sorry there was a misunderstanding. Your bags are at the desk." Lolol... fake it 'till you make it, eh?

Damn, a controversy and I managed to miss the whole thing. Oh well, there's always next year. ;) Heya Michelle, where ya been? Doing well, I hope? Good to see you again...no hard feelings, eh? :)

Of course not. I'm good, just working hard.

"Even though we had the rules listed on the AOM page, we were not specific to how the AOY would be voted. This has been updated." In fact, you made it specific when you posted the poll, encouraged people to vote, and allowed the poll to stay up for 3 days until it looked like Legume might win. "I apologize to everyone for how this year's AOY has been handled." As you should--it was stunningly incompetent at best, and created the appearance, at the very least, of blatant bias (not to mention possible fraud). You especially owe an apology to the AOY finalists, who had every reason to expect a fair and competently conducted vote--which, of course, they didn't get. You also owe the customer-members in general and the finalists in particular a fair and equitable solution--just saying "oops" doesn't do it, in my view--neither does saying "it's all okay now, the staff will handle it." I have no reason to think the mods/admins can render an unbiased decision regarding the AOY, when it's clear that some of them have issues with a few of the more outspoken member-customers (i.e., the bitchers and derailers). I know, I know--shut up and go back to your paint-by-numbers set, Mosca.

No, You are right Mosca. This was presented unprofessionally. And I do apologize to all for this event. thanks tammy

What are R'osity's plans for the upcoming contests? I realize there is going to be a meeting soon, (Friday?), but what other things are being done to rectify the situation?

Illusions, they posted the poll for 3 days then pulled it back down after people had already started voting. At first toxic Angel was winning, but right before they pulled the vote, Legume was winning. The vote was up for 3 days and on the front page, there was a blurb to the effect of It's that time of year, vote for AOY. hope this helps clarify things

Mosca is correct that this was presented unprofessionally. We were disorganized in how it was presented 2 years in a row. The AOY ..... we had good intentions but has not quite been launched very well. It should have been a mod and admin vote. It still is a mod and admin vote and will be going forward. How it was presented is what I am apologizing for. It created much confusion and I am sorry for that. I am not wanting to change the AOM in a reacting mode, but look at the ideas that the members have and give some consideration. I am monitoring the posts and pulling together the feedback. The AOM will continue as we have been doing until our discussions. I have already communicated publicly that the AOY will probably always be voted by admin/mods. The programming limitations for clones has always been an issue due to members who are on dynamic IPs, members who share the same IP address, and using anonymous addresses. So there is not a perfect system that we have found. The best one we have found this far is the one that we are using. thanks tammy

Ahh okies LOl sorry my bad- working on a couple of jobs here as well as browsing. Easy to miss the connotations. My only beef is time after time contests here have a history of having controvery surrounding them. If toxic Angel had won, that would have been ok by me as long as the vote was honest. By doing what they did- that no longer looks like its the case. It's just all messed up. I am not disrespecting the other artists, it's just that Toxic Angel and Legume had the largest vote spread, and it seemed inevitable that one of those 2 would have won.

God, I hate seeing this. This is the line of reasoning I wish I had seen.....(the following is a fictitious paraphrase)..... "You what?!? We didn't want a vote... aw, nuts. Well, we still don't want a vote, but people have already started voting, if we pull it now, it will make people feel like it's a direct slap. You can't give someone something and take it away after the fact, so in the interest of community spirit, we'll just grin and bear the vote this year. It's about dealing with a mistake honorably, not with a broom and a rug, I suppose. If there is any obvious hanky panky, of course it will be looked into, but the vast majority of members are honest, so we'll leave it up for them." whew "There, that wasn't so hard!" No, it wasn't. It's the fine line between intent and obfiscuration.