Attached Link: http://www.senosoft.com/

btw I don't think the Bryce demo could help as very often you can't save a scene with demos.

varp, As far as I know the brX file doesn't reference any bmp file it creates. the behavior you described does seem to be the default though. You might enter the brX file into a hex editor to see if there is an explicit reference to a bmp file but I doubt it. - TJ

I did that already - my head is full of Bryce binaries ;). There's no reference to a file and no picture either in the .brX files, as well in Poser there's no reference to the .rsr/.png. But as Poser does and as P3dO does with Poser files I can easily merge the .brX files with these pictures, and rename them, move them,... all together exactly as I do with Poser files. The goal as always is to ease file management and viewing. > the behavior you described does seem to be the default though So it seems that Bryce creates default .bmp with the scene files, doesn't it ?

Yep, Bryce creates default .bmp files. In Windows systems they're named after the scene's filename. So, if you have a scene called Interior.br5, the bmp would be called Interior.bmp --- Stefano

varp, bear in mind people move, rename or delete these bmp files. you can't count on them being there. or even staying in bmp. for various reasons the bmp files are sometimes converted to another format and the orignal bmp deleted. I think you will end up having to use if(exists..) statements in regard to the thumbs. I wish you well on this project, - TJ

Thanks Stefano, That's great, so great ;) Now there's still how to get the .obp thumb (much more difficult) but I'll add the same system as Poser files for Bryce in P3dO 1.6.2. Unfortunately 1.6.2 is under heavy reconstruction - as always P3dO is being rebuilt, new plugins, new stuff, bug fix. I stop adding new stuff and I prepare 1.6.2 asap. P3dO for Bryce will be P3dO 1.6.2, I think march is a reasonnable date (it will depends of the work I have on the 3D viewer for I want to include the Poser 3D viewer with 1.6.2). Yarp btw I'm still looking for informations on OBP files thumbs.

It's ok bikermouse, I will look at the .BMPs behing there or not as I do with Poser files - not a problem. I can also add an option like the one for Poser : look for .BMP or another picture format to pick in a list. Not a problem either. You said it was default behavior, is there a way in Bryce to tell Bryce to generate -for ex- .JPEG instead of .BMP ? Another question: if people remove, delete, rename those files what is the beahavior of Bryce when you update the .BR5 again ? I mean does it generate the .BMP again ? In the end if people prefer converting files P3dO can help them greatly with a picture converter like Rsr2Png. This also is under construction. > I think you will end up having to use if(exists..) statements in regard to the thumbs I'm nearly sure there's no information about the thumb in the Bryce file. To make sure I will ask more sample files to Foleypro he helps me a lot on this project. > I wish you well on this project I'm really glad of this happy end on the P3dO-Bryce project. It's not the end of course ;)

"if people remove, delete, rename those files what is the beahavior of Bryce when you update the .BR5 again?" If you have done this, when you open Bryce there will be no picture (white screen), and a .bmp file will not be regenerated unless you save the scene at any time before closing. And also, if you DON'T render anything, (thus, getting rid of the white screen) and you DO save, the .bmp that will be saved is just an all white pic. Doublecrash, evidently The actual .br4, .br5 file doesn't reference the pic at all, but the Bryce executable sinply knows to go ahead and load up any .bmp file with the same name as the scene file. (This is what I am assuming from reading all this). AgentSmith

Ya know... I use a program called Thumbplus ALL the time. In Thumbsplus I can use the options to have it "see" a new file type. I made it so it sees .br4 and br5 files, so i could move them at the same time as the .bmp of the same name. This way I wouldn't have to move the pic with Thumbsplus and then move the Bryce file with Windows explorer. Anyway...when Thumbsplus can't actually make a true pic thumbnail of something, it will make a thumbnail using that programs main execuatble Icon. Don't know if this helps at, just thought I would mention it. AgentSmith

Attached Link: http://www.wolfiesden.com/flash/main/

The program "Bryce Librarian" only swaps out material presets without having to go through the Import ritual.

Yep thats the BMP file I was talking about...Now where in the code does it show how and where the program references the Materials for the models?I would love to see an OBP model in all its glory first without haveing to import and apply all textures then rendering it just to see I dont like it,this will save so much time...I am going to go and check out a few things in Bryce and then I got to go to work,will check back later today to see the progress...

OK...I can read a OBP file but it reallys stumps me as to what the hell it is saying(Maybe I need my dad to check it out He had a program that the University Of Ohio ran for almost twenty years and he might be able to give pointers,Dont know tho he is in his Sixties and might say figure it out yourself)so I am going to send Yarp a couple of small OBP files and the scenes and a few jpegs so he can reference where everything is in the scene,Maybe with a little work we can help figure this out,Could really help us all....

Foleypro, there's no reference to the bitmap file in a .brX file but I don't really need one. The .OBP files are the next stuff to do. Thanks to your envoice I hope to be able to read an .OBP file, now. I will see tonight. We did great step forwards till last nigth - it's daytime here: 3 p.m and i'm at work, as you can see still thinking heavily to 3D ;) ... back to work now Yarp... yessir ! Where does work begin and where does pleasure stop ?

yarp, I did a simple experiment. rendered a simple scene and then completely exited b5 and deleted the .bmp - reentered bryce5 by clicking the br5 file and the scene image still appeared in b5. so I'd bet the image is included somewhere inside the br5(brX) file. I don't know how you'll decode it for the thumb but apparently it's there - somewhere. I mean it could be retrieving the scene from windows memory but I doubt it. If you think of any simple experiments (that wouldn't take up too much time) I shoud be online sometime this evening. - TJ

oops varp sorry tired

Understand bikermouse, so it seems the thumb is in the file in the end. Maybe in B5 but not in B4, I really couldn't find any thumb in a B4 file. I will need a small B5 file to verify if it stores a thumb somewhere. Anyway it doesn't matter the attached .bmp remains true. We can start with this. btw I was looking around here in the forum. What is a PGM map file ?

Have a good night ;)

I did a google search and, from what I could find, a PGM is a Portable Gray Map. Bryce5(dont know about the other versions) will import them. I've never used one but I guess its a pic to use in the terrain editor... Also on the bmp with the same name as a .brx file. There is an option in the prefs for turning that on and off. Its called Image with Scene Open/Save.

Hello all I am back and Yarp I am going o send out the files tonite,err around 5:30pm Pacific standard time...Hmmm very interesting about the thumbnail deleting thing and it still showed...Why?and from where?Time to find out...

Yarp they are sent and I really would like to know about the Paths you might find about the reference to the Materials...Might work in another Project I am working on,Thanks a ton....

varp and foleypro, UPDATE: When I logged back on to my computer the first thing I noticed was a new desktop item, Z.bmp(the name of the simple br5 file I played with last night.)! So I deleted z.bmp and opened z.br5 by clicking on it and sure enough when I closed b5 again there was z.bmp again! so it seems that b5 generates a bmp file when you open b5 in this way: "bryce5 (directory path)z.bmp" where z.bmp is the name of the bmp file. I don't have b4, but later I can check this in b3d if you want. - TJ

Ok, I prefer this. I looked again last night at a .BR5 file and there was really no way to store a picture in that file. So it seems the z.bmp is the last .br5 picture. Of course I won't deal with this, P3dO can't know where s the last openened .br5. The attached picture is the only way... and .obp thumbs too. Wadus, yep it's ok pgm files. I should have known as P3dO can read .pgm files but I thought it was something special with Bryce. Well, you can turn the picture on/off and I even think you can choose another format than .bmp, isn't it .pic file format ? Anyway that's the only way to have a thumb for a .brx file.

Brian, I got the files.

Attached Link: http://www.annsartgallery.com/Tutorals/seaspray/seaspray.html

I'm affraid it's a bit huge (1.44 Mb), a binary file is to be read nearly byte after byte so you see 1.44 is a lot of bytes. I'm downloading it anyway, just in case. On the other end the tutorial was very interesting ;)

Bikermouse, your experiment in post #18. I had done the same thing, and I should have included another little bit of info in my post #9. After making & rendering & saving a Bryce scene, exit Bryce, and go and delete the .bmp file to your corresponding .br4/5 file (this part we both did) But, here's what I did; I DID NOT double click the .brx file. I executed Bryce, and manually opened the file, results = white render screen. BUT, if you DO double click the .brx file to execute Bryce and auto-open the file, Bryce will automatically start rendering the scene. So, in my naive common sense...I would still believe that any .br4/5 file does not carry a thumb. And, if you can still find no reference to the corresponding .bmp file, then it is only the main Bryce executable that "knows" to open the "dragon.bmp along with dragon.br4/5" But, hey, this is all a big hunch by a non-programmer, lol. Take my ramblings with a grain of salt, please. AgentSmith

AgenSmith, I agree with your opinion 100%. You should read #25 from Bikermouse, the explanation probably lies in that z.bmp. The other fact that enforce my opinion is that I carrefuly studies severall .brX files (about a dozen), including the one from EricofSD - yes, I did - and nowhere could I find something looking like a picture chunk or datas. You can even find ascii codes in a Bryce file like Mat_eRefrac, Mat_eBum, brycefamse and even in an .obp file the term "preview". So why should some chunks be ascci coded and others not when in some Bryce files you find the obvious preview indication ? Conclusion no thumb in a .brX file and I will work with .bmp as thumbnails, even if they appera to be white. btw I would like to get one of those white bitmaps at yarp@senosoft.com. I can add a filter in a plugin to automatically remove white bitmaps. btw Another idea. I also intend to automatically replace those bitmaps with custom bitmaps (I was thinking about .png) to avoid Bryce erasing the .bmp. What do you think of the idea ? I would extend the feature to Poser .pz3 and some other thumbnailless files.

Excellent Ideas flying around here,And as far as I know on a PC the thumbnail is BMP(Now of course you can export the image in several file formats) and On a Mac it is saved as a PICT,but since I dont own a Mac I dont know for sure,And as for the Re-appearing BMP after deletion it seems to me somewhere there is a Reference to the scene,So that means somewhere in the .dat/data files there might be reference to the scene and you might be able to get the information from one of those files?Of course then that would be the whole scene and not the object/OBP...Now when I open up I see the reference to the names of the Materials but I see no numbers corresponding to the Materials,So That means somewhere in Bryce is the information for the Material Numbers corresponding to that scene&Data ect we just need to find out where....?

yarp, I looked through the br5 file and added to it to confirm this: It has saved geometry texture etc information in it and as Agent Smith says it rerenders the image from this. from what I saw in the hex editor I can say without any doubt that there is no bmp file compressed or otherwise in the brX file. Well you got us to look anyway. Sorry that it took so long to get at the facts. - TJ

Foleypro, I feel better with a PC/Mac alternative. I prefer just one file format on PC. It's faster to code and to run. The numbers are binary coded in the file. You can see the letters because the showing of the binary value of a letter is -with most editors- the letter itself, that's not the case with digits. Is that number of any interest for you ? I mean the Material number is it an interesting information ? Bikermous, on the contrary it was very interesting. Rich I should say. I learned a lot of things on how to deal with those .bmp pictures. It was not obvious from the beginning on how did Bryce dealt with those pictures. Now we're done with this and I'm glad we're all on the same line. I will now do 2 things: - Implement .bmp pictures like I do with Poser files for the .brX family. - Try do decode .obp thumbnails. 2nd try, I failed last year but I've got new weapons. It will undoubltly be a hard task. When I say now, I mean just after the Carrara plugin I'm working on. The guys from eovia kindly replied to my mail - and they told me all (greaaaaat), as did the guys from e-on last year. It's life isn't it ? Bryce plugin will be available with P3dO 1.6.

Lol, Now if you can only help us find a way to export previously un-exportable meshes out of Bryce... Thanks for all the crazy/hard work you're doing for Bryce here! AS

yarp, a lot of people have tried to decode obps - if you get it you'll probably be one of the first. I'm working on a little something in MSVC6 right now, so I understand how slow it can go sometimes. I made a little progress just now regarding emulating keystrokes. I haven't got alt + 'm' to work yet, but I can emulate 'm' and move the mouse just fine, so it's only a matter of time now. Because of the nature of it I won't release source code for my project as it could, when I get finished with it, be used to emulate existing software. I'll have to think of how not to do that as well when I'm done with the research part of of this. I got the C2 SDK from eovia and have only gotten so far as to see that it works, but eventually I'm gonna try to write a plugin for C2 as well. It was a pleasure talking with you, - TJ

So we succeeded in getting Bryce in P3do...Awesome wish we could have gotten last year...Anyways yes I would love to find out how Bryce accesses the Materials and what the corresponding Material Code..Finding the Paths would go a long way in developing Plugins for Bryce...I think in order for Bryce to Play with the big boys or as we all refer to them as the higher end programs we need to be able to use various Plugins and or develope our own,And with each advancement on figueing out Bryces code we get one step further...And I could never figure out why the COMPANY wouldnt want to help out because all we want to do is what they want...I pray deep down that DAZ's Program is totally compatible with Bryce(Seeins how I cant use Poser5 on my main machine running Win98SE)So back to the task at hand.....Are we succsessful?Can and will Bryce be apart of P3DO?

Yarp, the thumb is generated from the render. If you stop half way in the render and save there, the thumb will be half complete. And its not a thumb. If you rendered in 800x600, that's the size of the .bmp. The bmp is automatically saved side by side with the brx file and has no connection to it. For example, save a brx. Reopen it and change skyz and move the camera to a different postion. Watch the mini render window change, but don't render it. Save. When you reopen you'll see a difference between your scene and your mini view. So if you're looking for image data in the brx file, I don't think its there. As for renaming to a .png or something, that's a great idea. Don't overwrite the bmp. Lets say I render all night and don't export an image. The high end B5 render will be in the bmp. I'd hate to have that overwritten.

EricofsSD, of course I don't want to overwrite any file without notifying the user. P3dO doesn't overwrite .RSR or .PNG this way. We're done with the .bmp now, it's just a bitmap with the same name as the .brX file. P3dO now how to deal with this, doesn't it manage Poser files this way ? Foleypro, finding the paths of Bryce materials from .brX file would require a complete decoding of .brX file. Unfortunately, I can't do this without Corel's help. I think that some people at Corel would gladly help but it's a huge company and we have to contact the right one at the right moment. Bikermouse, good luck with VC++. You choose the right compiler, this one is the best. It's a fact C++ is not an obvious language but it is really powerfull - I love it. I sugest you visit that website frequently (http://www.codeproject.com/) this is the best open source Windows C++ website - exactly like Renderosity for Poser. You will learn a lot there. btw P3dO has plugins and a SDK too ;) As for .OBP I failed last year but I recently got new weapons - new algorithms - that could do the job, we'll see. I only intend to read .OBP pictures nothing else, the rest would cost too much and P3dO has severall other ongoing projects.

AgentSmith, I'm affraid exporting meshes out of Bryce is far beyond my scope. Very difficult but not impossible, all is a matter of time ;)

Oh, I was just kidding/wishful thinking.

Not wishful thinking,One day soon there will be a way...And as for finding the Paths?Who knows we just might stumble on to it....

Yarp, For years I used Borland C in DOS but I'm finding that this is no longer practical, so I'm learning MSVC as most programs I'm likely to see source for are MSVC - the same reason that I chose the PC over the MAC. I'm still resisting C++ but that will have to end at some point too. Now I hear about C#; still yet another language to learn. I'm already on to code project and you're right it's great. another one that ocasionallly helps me is Tek-Tips. cheers, - TJ

I see, P3dO is CBuilder written but the plugins - all .dlls - are VC. C# is a cousin to Java, it's different from C++. Should I learn another language I would learn Java instead of C# - I don't believe in C# but Java is becoming more and more popular. No C++, Java, C# are all Object Oriented that's the only difference compared to C. Of course you've also got Windows programming to learn but that also is covered by MFC. If you have any trouble don't hesitate to ask me I'll be glad to help. Didn't new tek-tips, btw CodeGuru is a very good C++ site too.

Thankee all for the great sites...