I wish there was another way, but there probably isn't ernyoka :( You don't have a right to post freestuff here, its a priveledge Renderosity grants, and its a priveledge they can take away too. all its going to take is one lawyer armed with enough money to take down the free stuff area completely. I'd rather have a free stuff with restrictions than a free stuff without any that goes bye-bye totally. I'd rather see free stuff warezers be sued than R'osity be sued. Renderosity has my information already since I buy here, so really I have nothing at all to hide. Pen - trying to stop the warezers from buying the stuff is mostly pointless, as many of them don't buy it, they get it over the net. I used to give away lots and lots of stuff for free, and I used to sell game mods too. I don't anymore, and its because of this problem. The only way I can be sure my stuff doesn't get warezed is by keeping it on my hard disk. Sad fact of human nature, most people will take a short cut if they can, and if we don't make it clear that shortcut won't be tolerated, they'll continue to take shortcuts.

"Why not post the (real) names and (real) addresses of known warezers, either internally or externally, and share that info with other 3d sellers and brokers? No need to share Credit Card info, but just the person's name and addy." Sounds like an invitation to recieve a BIG FAT lawsuit. Considering all the serious nut-cases running around on this planet, subjecting somone to the VERY REAL possibility of getting their house burned down, or being murdered over somthing like this, is pretty extreme. Don't you think? If selfish stupidity were a capital offence, planet Earth would be "human free" right now.

I think the biggest problem here is that would require a LOT of admin time and $$ to go back through every single freestuff item, let alone any new fs things. While it's pretty obvious that my stuff is original (who else would do a cartoon sun? Groucho glasses? et al), there are many who are not so cut and dried. Above all... unless the person is a repeat offender, please let us not witch hunt. And what happens if Lady Luna starts making 100% original material? I know, Anton, you say she won't, and should be banned. So there's no chance for her to ever go straight? Ever? Okay, I would like to see you explain that. Note: I'm just making this point for the sake of seeing all sides of the issue, btw)

The lady Luna pics you need SPike are in that thread.

I would agree 100% with you on this issue, this is the same mesh. I will take action on this... Can you please post a link to the other issue please Too many posts to follow..... TIA Spike

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1047633

Looking now...

To all those who sdo not see the DMCA as being relevant here, you are sadly mistaken. The case that we have here is a product that is ONLY available as digital content. As such, all copyright laws apply to the content (at least in the US, where I assume most of the content is created and "housed" - if I am mistaken,I apologize). Since these items have a default copyright per US law, and specifically in this case many have EULs included, all rights and privileges accorded to copyrighted materials apply. Regarding the hosting, even though Renderosity does not host the items on its own site, it does provide links to the offsite locations. As such, it is acting as and/or facilitating the "transaction", which is the downloading of the object. REGARDLESS OF ANY VERBAGE THAT RENDEROSITY MAY HAVE ON ITS SITE TO THE CONTRARY, they are acting as facilitators, even if indirectly. As such, recent court rulings specifically and absolutely apply to Renderosity, because they are acting as facilitator. These ruling include those against Napster and Verizon. There are no differences here. In the Napster case, Napster just faciliated, but did not host. In the Verizon case, the "ISP" is responsible at least partially for the actions of its users. Howver you may want to argue, the current interpretations of the law agree to this. I for one do not look to the day where we have to go through loops to provide or download content, but the fact of the matter is, all of the Rendering community may have to take this into consideration as all it takes is one person to show legal harm for this to cost all of us. - Ray, who DOES know something about digital copyright law

NOONE IS THAT STUPID I'm glad you think so, but I'm more inclined to give the guy the benefit of the doubt as to his motives before cutting him up into tiny little pieces and then stomping on them. He's a newbie. He's shut down the links. He probably knows he screwed up and wanted to make amends by deleting the links. Ever consider that?? Of course, I could be wrong, but would it frigging hurt to find out before we all sharpen the knives? The rest of his stuff is based on the P4 meshes, yeah, but not everyone knows how to pcf-encode. And if the lack of that knowledge makes people like him STUPID, then I guess I am too. Big whoop. If stupidity is the basis on which we measure people around here, I can think of a few really stupid things in the past myself that people have done to me. Do we really want to travel down that road? Sheessh, Anton. Yeah, it's lousy when someone like Luna time and again rips you off, but not everyone is like Luna. Some people make innocent mistakes, and it might not be such a bad idea to ask the guy before you mail out the necktie party invitations.

VirtualSite, Go troll someone elses post.

Well, pookie, if you looked at the Notes for both of these, here's what you'd find: It is the character of Daz Victoria3. Please prepare Daz Victoria3 separately in use. It is work with Macintosh. It is the release by the obj file. head---Maiko_v3.obj neck---Maiko_neck.obj eye----MaikoLE.obj/MaikoRE.obj They're morph files. Now go take a Valium and get over it.

No, I will NOT go away, Anton. If you're gonna cite stuff like this, then you'd damn well better be able to prove unequivocably that these people were maliciously ripping you or DAZ off. Luna, yeah, I can understand, but now you're trolling the Freestuff area for things that somehow "prove" your case. Yeah, maybe people can reverse engineer from these things, but that requires a level of expertise that not many of us -- myself included -- have. And when I create a morph file for myself, it's an .obj -- just like these, just like every damn morph at Duane's ToyBox for that matter, and just like every other damn morph I have in my archives. SO IT'S A FUCKING INNOCENT MISTAKE, and why the hell you can't see that completely escapes me. So go after Luna, as you should. But the rest of these? Gimme a break.

VirtualSite. You spoke my thoughts. It may be illlegal to distribute V3 as the usual obj morphs. But then I've missed that part as well. Or rather not read the EULA thoroughly. After all I'm not crazy about reading long "law language" texts in english. And clearly the maker of these morphs haven't got english as his native tongue either. But perhaps it should only be allowed to upload anything for pure blooded english speaking folks? Oh but I forgot.. I don't have a right to upload anyway... so I'll shut my mouth and stop doing so.

PhoenixRising: *"VirtualSite,

Go troll someone elses post."*

Me: Tacky Anton...tacky and uncalled for...I don't see anything in VirtualSite's post that remotely resembled trolling! You (for whatever reason) may not like the guy, but you have no right to restrict who can comment in any post. You may have started the post...but by posting it in a public forum, you opened it to comment from any and all! If you don't like the kinds of comments you get, perhaps you should rethink posting to public forums!

Yeah well here is one for yeah Sean. Your not suppose to use Vicki morphs to make morphs. I made alot of the Vicki morphs. Some actually scale the polygns smaller. The Brow Soften morph I made was used on these. Tweaking dials for a base, then smoothing in LW or something else doesn't make them original.

Illusions, there is a history between VS and myself you are not aware of. Both here and at other forums. And it ain't pretty. Thanks for your advice but I am okay. :)

Here's the thing... It IS Renderosity's responsibility to monitor 'Free Stuff'. All this 'We don't host it, we can't be responsible." is a load of bollocks. Does the term "facilitation to theft " mean anything? I'm not saying it's the intent, but it's the result none the lest. This cavalier attitude about it simply shan't suffice. And don't start in on the 'Oh but lordy, it would take too much money'. Doesn't cut it. Ya see, 'Free Stuff' makes money for Renderosity. It's a service that they offer. A service that attracts visitors and encourages members whom are then exposed to their marketplace and their software sponsors etc... It's all about 'bums in the seats' (to borrow a stage exporession). Don't wanna come off overly harsh, but get your shit together. If you're incapable of maintaining this service in a legit manner, then mayhaps you should not have it.

To all involved, Please stick to the point at hand! Unless members want warnings, I am in the mood ya know... Thanks And BTW, this is why I like to do this via IM or E-mail.

PhoeinxRising: "Illusions, there is a history between VS and myself you are not aware of. Both here and at other forums. And it ain't pretty."

Me: Keep that between you and VS and not in the forum...he made a civil comment, and you should show some decorum and keep your replies to him civil.

illusions, Thanks again for your advice.

This is from the Renderosity TOS zero tolerance section: Soliciting or Trading of any products illegally. This includes, but is not limited to, requests and/or distribution of computer software, software security overrides, serial numbers and/or admission of use or possession (warez). So I'll repeat Anton's question; why haven't these offenders been banned? Where is the 'zero tolerance' for this 'Lady Luna' person? Ironically, since I was one of the 2000ish who downloaded the x0261539 rip-off of Anton's hair model - and I hereby admit possession of this 'warez' material (downloaded via Renderosity) - I suppose I can be banned immediately! Yes folks, people have been banned here for saying they've used warez stuff, but other people have used Renderosity facilities to actually distribute warez and remain free to do it again. You have to laugh.

Bebop flashbacks, anyone?

Illusions, there is a history between VS and myself you are not aware of. Both here and at other forums. And it ain't pretty Most of it due to your making snap judgments before really looking at things, as you've done to me on more than a few occasions, but that's another matter for another time. As far as these issues go, maybe it's time we heard from Luna herself, if anyone wants to invite her into the thread. I for one would sure like to hear her side of all this.

Oh Sean, Shut up already. Funny coming from the guy who posts dozens of replies though posts before figuring out what the post are actually about. Lord forbid you mind your business on something. I think we get get through the rest of this without you. I'm sure there is another post somewhere that needs your wisdom more.

Whatever you say, hon. But dealing with the actual issue here, you might bear in mind that innocent mistakes do occur, and not everyone is out to rip you off. Once you get past that, maybe it's time to deal with the real issue at hand, which seems to be Luna. Remember: Love ya like a sister.

The issue is warez being distributed via Renderosity freestuff.

Sean, Calling me "hon", Sweety", "pumkin", "sister" or whatever else you think will get under my skin is beneath you. I have told you many times not to do it both here and at PoserPros. Grow up. And stop trying to bait me with your now famous "love ya like a sister" comment. If you stopped insulting people or calling them names like "dufflebag" you might have less problems with people.

Anton, I see your point, and see that you are not making up your allegations. However, as an impartial observer I have to say I have litte sympathy for you when you behave so childishly. And of course using this to bash that Luna person who had nothing to do with this just adds that certain somthing. You sound like a real prig. You need to take a step back.

Attached Link: Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1047633

Prig, n. 1. originally, any person regarded with dislike. 2. a person who affects great preciseness or propriety in matters of learning or morals, to the annoyance of others; a smug, pedantic person. --Websters New Twentieth Century Dictonary Unabridged Second Edition 1968 The word for today.

Okay so it was meant as a put down. I just don't want my work given away for free. I also don't want to be made fun of by someone who won't stop saying he "loves me like a sister". Losing your hard work wears on your nerves when it happens over and over again. As does having people judge you for trying to protect your work and others. I personally have strong views on certain things. I think stealing is wrong. I also think forum bullies are a bad thing. I don't think that makes me a "prig". I am sure people are annoyed when they get caught doing something wrong. Mabey it does but I don't care.

sigh...as usual the thread degenerates into bickering, name calling, childish rants, and attacks.

As for VS and Anton...You couldn't just let it go could you VS! Anton stopped after I spoke to him...when are you gonna learn that sometimes it's better to just leave well enough alone and retain your credibility (which, by the way, you just blew!). You 2 seem to be on the verge of TOS violations for personal attacks...Spike has already made his "cautions" post! Carry on at your own risk!

The way this appears is a no-brainer. Lady Luna, for whatever reason, has been posting copyrighted material in Freestuff. She should be banned...no debate...no excuses...end of story!

Anton, I know you have been hit hard by warez of your products, but not everyone is "out to ruin you". An email to the Admins of Freestuff and an email to the "poster" to cease and desist should have been your first step in this new case with your "Magic" hair. Sometimes you have to give people the benefit of the doubt.

The same with the Vicky .obj files in Freestuff, an email to the Admins would have dealt with the situation. They are normally responsive and deal with removing the "offending" material relatively quickly. It's a good bet the "offender" didn't even realize he was commiting an "offense". It appears there is a language barrier, and last I heard DAZ EULA's weren't distributed in multiple languages (although they should consider that).

Maybe you should be less concerned with how much income you're losing and more concerned with how many people you may be alienating with the way you handle these situations.

Charlie, :) Thanks.

you know- i was thinking of using this thread to point out something to a young artist i am working with (age 13, my son) to clarify a point i have been trying to make for the last 3 months. Kinda shot down that idea right about post 64 sigh oh and the banner that popped up. I was thinking of just copy pasting this into another prog to show him but it wouldn't have the same effect. Ah well another learning opportunity lost...

I'm loath to step into this since Spike is obviously dealing here, but he quite clearly said "Please stick to the point at hand!" and that's been broadly ignored by some. This is a serious issue, and allowing it to degenerate into bickering makes it seem less important than it is. Kevin.

Amen Kevin!

illusion, This problem just continues over and over again. The links are always removed but only after thousands of downlowds have occured. The current process of handling this stuff isn't working. As you can see in the images and links, I can post side-by-sides, comparisons, etc and people still try to say I might be wrong. And that defending my work makes be petty. This is how I made my living. I can't just let these things slide. What Lady Luna did completely killed that product. Anyone who has downloaded Warez has seen my files. I just don't have the luxury of just "forgetting" it. Sean baits me every chance he gets. That is what I was refering to earlier and why I snapped at him. If is hard enough to show where theft is occuring without someone walking in trying to say "you don't know what you are talking about" just to setting a grudge. If some of you have never had this problem I can see where you wouldn't understand.

when are you gonna learn that sometimes it's better to just leave well enough alone and retain your credibility (which, by the way, you just blew!). If I did, so be it. Your post came in as I was writing mine, so I didn't see yours in advance. Mea maxima culpa. But let's face it: this thing started off fine, then got downright stupid. And I'm getting a little tired of seeing accusations of copyright violation thrown around like rice at a Catholic wedding. Sheessh.

PheonixRising: "This problem just continues over and over again. The links are always removed but only after thousands of downlowds have occured. The current process of handling this stuff isn't working."

If it's not pointed out to them until thousands of downloads have occured, it's not their fault. If they are delaying dealing with it once it's been pointed out to them, that's different. Once this kind of accusation is made, the item should immediately be pulled. This is Freestuff, not the Marketplace, so the person that uploaded it doesn't stand to lose anything if the item is pulled until the issue can be settled. Infact, all Admin/Mods should be given the ability to pull an item out of Freestuff so that this kind of issue can be dealt with immediately (there is usually 1 Mod or Admin hanging around most times).

PhoenixRising: "Sean baits me every chance he gets."

Me: That's no excuse...stop biting the hook! :^)

"Me: That's no excuse...stop biting the hook!" hrmm maybe i WILL bring my kid in to read this LOL

VirtualSite: "But let's face it: this thing started off fine, then got downright stupid."

Me: Why contribute to the "stupidity"...you started off just fine...you should have quit while you were ahead...or at least tried to keep your comments "on topic" ;^)

VirtualSite: "And I'm getting a little tired of seeing accusations of copyright violation thrown around like rice at a Catholic wedding. Sheessh."

Me: Well it appears there may be some truth to these "accusations". So far, what I have seen in this post and the other, related post, appear to back up what Anton has been saying. I don't necessarily approve of the way he handles things, but I do have sympathy for his plight.

Sean, I have shown side by side renders. I have shown screen captures. I have not made anything up. Your comments would be valid under different circumstances but not here. You always do the same thing. You rush into a post and make some outrageous remarks, then spend the rest of the post back-peddling, watering down what you previously said, trying to show people how they misunderstood you. That tactic is getting just as tiresome and obvious. Illusion: If you want to ignore someone who attacks you that is your right. I choose not to if the person won't stop after I have asked them to stop. That is my right.

The readme for the Maiko file appears to be written by a non-native English speaker. There is a possibility that the legal info that gets discussed here, as well as the technical distribution info, may be beyond their grasp of the language.

Just to clarify: all mods and admins can pull a Freestuff item if need be. Contacting any of us who are online when something like this crops up is always the best place to start.

"If they are delaying dealing with it once it's been pointed out to them, that's different." It's also 'different' when the admin permit an offender to retain access to the site so they can repeat offend. I'm not in favour of a 'one strike and you're out' policy (leaves no room for innocent mistakes), but after one clear warning there can be no excuse. And yet it appears there can be here...

I still feel that a new process of submission is needed. Lady Luna's first batch of 12 dresses wasn't brought to my attention until three months had past. Catching the most recent one she did was just a fluke that I saw it. Many items get hundred of downloads in the first couple days. The process isn't working. If there would be better guidelines and restictions posted as they upload then there would be no reason for any second offenses.

This is the only text shown to people when they upload: -------------------------------------------------------- Please feel free upload your own creations to the Free Stuff Pages NOTE: Due to the huge amount of bandwidth this site pulls, file uploading has been disabled. You must find another site to actually host the files and just link to them here. Thumbnail: Your thumbnail should be 200x200. Nudity: If your thumbnail contains nudity, please check the appropriate box below. Failure to do so may result in your upload being removed. Commercial Use: If you wish to allow others to use your item for commercial use, then check the appropriate box below. Item Type: If your item does not require any additional 3rd party software purchase (Stand Alone), then check the appropriate box below. If your item is dependent upon a 3rd party software (Add-On), then leave this box unchecked. ----------------------------------------------------------- There should be rules and guidelines crearly explaining what is and not acceptable along with the consequences that go with a violation.