I know, you're thinking, "Oh, God, what's he on about THIS time?", but no - this is serious. I think we should start using the Hot 20 ratings on a more frequent basis.... Hardly anyone touches the vote button - I mean, c'mon, likes of 50 hits but the lowest votes on Hot 20 is still 2 for another pic? If we use it seriously, and as often as a photo is GOOD, then we should get rid of the 'rogue' ones that slip in there...... you know what I mean, any that use multiple logins (we KNOW it happens.....), and where it's just friends patting backs, or any where they're crawling up to someone just coz every couple of months they take a pic of themselves and put it in there. You all know what I mean. At least then we should see it changing a bit (it's always stagnant these days......) and some deserving pictures (ie. MINE) should get viewed too. Cheers Mike (",)

Jordy HOW many time must I tell you. More implied sex will garentee you hits!!! And cool titles help also. Bsteph

been suggested 100's of times in many forums in various ways of phrasing. It may happen, but only briefly. Best idea is to pay no attention to the hot 20. not many people consider it to be too serious of a thing and more o ften than not, don't pay it much attention. as for the "deserving" pictures not getting hits, well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Sorry Jordy I'm with Slynky on this one.....I can't remember when the last time I actually looked at the Hot 20 was. In the long run it's really just better to forget it even exists..... I went and took a peek over there after your post, there were a couple of well deserved images in there, but then some of it only proves that the Hot 20 really should be flushed down the toilet....hehehe...

Go for it Jordy make the best image in the hot 20. Sure there may be nudity BUT make it a good one. That way you will be proud AND get hits at the same time. Bsteph

I think the best way to improve the gallery is to start improving within oneself. Start posting better pictures. Then hope others will follow suit. :-) Ratings are IMHO superficial. I appreciate constructive criticism more than people's vote of confidence (or whathaveyous). Not that I would mind people voting for me. :-) (*

Cyn, People like me, perhaps.......? snigger (",)

well, of course! :D

I kinda agree with all of you, I like the Hot 20. I don't really check it out all that much because I don't think any of my photos are in there, but it's something extra to go for. And I agree, how many of us actually vote on photos. I don't all the time because.......you know what, I don't know why. what, does it take a whole 10 seconds to cast a vote. So I'm going to make a kinda suggestion that when ever we cruz through the gallery we vote at least once on the most deserving picture we see. We are not limited to the number of votes we make, are we? Or is it that no one sees photos worth voting for, that's what it looks like. Star I personally try my hardest to post my best works but everyone here is of different abilities, agreed there are some snap shot photos but that's just some of us sharing a piece of ourselves to maybe let everyone have an idea who we as a person are. As I told a friend these galleries are more than just places to post our work, we are a society of artists striving to improve our skills and lead a hand to the others around us who might look up to you and your vision. To snob around would be a bad reflection of ourselves and bring down your own abilities. I believe you get out what you put in, so be careful how you treat others.

Oh great. Now a bloody philosopher agrees with me too..... (Only kidding, Derick - nice to see someone else doesn't see it as a lost cause!) (",)

Gee...Derick makes it sound like being a snob is a bad thing...personally I enjoy the title......although I have been called worse....

I'm just saying, I personally think if you don't take the time to honestly let people know what you think of there work what makes you think your gonna get any honesty back. And if more people took the one vote suggestion you might see your work up there, otherwise we are just posting images and promoting snap shots by looking the other way.

Well I comment when I can, and I try to be honest and helpful in offering suggestions for improvement. While I would like to give in depth critiques to images that need help I have to skip over many of them....and get right to the images that look "good", I am here to enjoy myself too after all... To be quite honest my time is limited these days so I don't get to spend much time as I would like in the gallery....and I still have my mod duties to attend to as well... I'm not quite sure I understand how voting images into the Hot 20 is supposed to improve the gallery...nor do I give a care if my images are in there or not...there will always be people posting in the gallery who are just beginning and there will always be those who are more advanced. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to how the Hot 20 helps one improve their photography skills?.....because that whole premise has me scratching my head....I always thought a good basic photography book and lots of practice was the way to go..... Just my 2 cents....

Well as you already know from IM's between the two of us I never meant that your images did not belong there cynlee, when I said what I said. Also you are very popular in the gallery so I am not surprised to see so many of your images there, people love your work! :~) Don't feel like you have to defend yourself.... I agree with you on the point that the Hot 20 might be a good ego boost for people. But that is IMHO about the entent of it. My work has been in there before too, so what, yeah it's nice, but it's doesn't make you a better photographer.... I think commenting is probably the most effective, but it has to be more than a beautiful, pretty.... another opinion from me to stir the pot...I never rank images either...another useless, ridiculous feature.... It used to be a number ranking....people would get pissed off at the numbers if they weren't high enough....btw how many people rank honestly? How many people don't rank images because they are afraid of offending. And if they did what do you think would happen..... Maybe I should stuff a sock in my mouth and shut up now...:~)

obviously i don't know much of anything nor have the experience here to comment & certainly don't think i'm any better then anyone else- thanks

[sigh!...] Play nice, kids. Personally, I never rank, or vote. Most of my comments are of the "Neat!" variety, unless I really have something to say, or folks specifically ask for help (in the Forum usually). I do like to at least comment favorably, if only a "pat-pat", as I hope it encourages. But very often, the images stand on their own, either very good or very bad, and whatever I would verbalize would not be needed. I tend to admire folks who have studied art history or technique in depth, and can leave insightful comments. I believe that is one of the most important factors here to build our community. I'm just most times not very insightful. Comments also seem to be a very helpful tool in some of our campaigns against manipulation of tasteless nudity and violence. We can make the community what we want it to be.

yeah- i messed up the thread & deleted what i said earlier- the hot 20 is a sham, forget it JA, sorry Michelle- i'm outta here

Is it me pissing people off or causing people to delete their posts....Is it too hard to handle a sprited debate? It's obviously something we all have strong feelings/opinions on. But there is no reason why we can't talk about it without getting upset either. Gee........

I never rank, what does it accomplish. When I comment, I always try to make a Good comment stating what I like about the image but after, I try to leave some bit of something I see could be improved. Maybe not improved, more like something to think about the next time the person tries to take the same sort of shot. Cyn, I liked the toilet shot. I think it's interesting to see and document what a nasty race we are, polluting our own soil. I have a couple interesting shots of fishing line just thrown on the ground by some ignorant people, and a beautiful little pond with tires all over the place, and another with a dead baby fox half decomposed. A photo is a photo, The subject matter doesn't always have to be beautiful sunsets and scantily clad women, It's all about composition, sharpness, and colors. And personally I think the majority if not all of your work falls right on my three criteria. As for you Michelle WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, just kidding. I agree, maybe the Hot 20 doesn't make us better photographers, but it does give us a reason to post our best works. Maybe if there were some sort of group who would use those images for whatever purpose (news letters, web pages....) and If the artist chose to offer the image for free it would give a bit of incentive. Something like the person or company would ask the artist if they could use there image, and it would be the artists choice to give it, any additional works would cost. I don't really know how all that works so I'm just throwing out possibilities. CHA CHING my 2 cents

Quote Misha - "But very often, the images stand on their own, either very good or very bad, and whatever I would verbalize would not be needed." hmmm - sortof. To 'us viewers' they might, but to the person who posted them, not necessarily - let's face it, when we post a pic that's took our time & love, we don't see the mistakes in there. Ever telling the parent of an ugly child they're not beautiful?!? lol Oh, God, what did I start here? Let's close this off; Obviously the Top 20 means different things to everybody, which is why it doesn't work at the moment. Only if everyone uses it right will it change. It's up to us as individuals to decide whether or not it's worth it. I'm going to use it. Mike. (",)

I like to post in the Forum and if I get good feed back about certain photos then I post in the gallery, if I get criticism then I learn

Star I personally try my hardest to post my best works but everyone here is of different abilities, agreed there are some snap shot photos but that's just some of us sharing a piece of ourselves to maybe let everyone have an idea who we as a person are.

I agree, that's why I do not have anything against popparazzi shots and pet photos and whathaveyous, as long as they don't violate TOS. I understand that people post their work here for different reasons, and I agree with Jordy that the Hot20 serves different purposes as well. We are all here to share and improve. (Or so I presume heh heh heh) ;-) Oh, btw-- Cyn, your comment and opinions are as good as any one else's. :-) (*