Attached Link: Some of Mo's Bryce Experiments

We (Pandromeda) have been negotiating with Corel to buy the Bryce brand for some time now.

To make any big dream happen, such as creating MojoWorld or purchasing Bryce, takes a substantial sum of money. Apparently what weve been able to offer Corel has not been enough.

We believe that $500K to $1M cash up front, plus about another $1M in royalties over a few years, would be enough to get Corel to hand Bryce over. Unfortunately, we dont have that kind of money--we already spent it on MojoWorld. ;-)

Eric Wenger and I have spoken about working together to take Bryce to the next level and beyond. It would be very easy to slip the MojoWorld texture engine in under the hood of Bryce, making Bryce faster and more powerful right away. And we could add a user interface to the code I stuck in there when working on Bryce 4.0 to easily add further functionality. Then theres the MojoWorld renderer, which is far more advanced--and faster, for rendering the same things--as Bryces; htat could be added, too.

Theres no doubt that we have the vision and technology to move Bryce forward. What we lack is the cash to wrest it from Corel.

So: please send money. ;-)

-Mo

PS- Im preparing to leave for the Game Developer Convention in San Jose tomorrow, so I may not get to comment on any of your replies to this posting until a week from today, or maybe later.

man...Bryce with the Mojo Render engine...pandromeda would be the perfect company to move Bryce forward.. So who do I make the check to Doc? :-)

Well, whenever you do get back to look at, what I'm sure will be a Mtn. of suggestions and questions... Are you looking to keep Bryce and MojoWorld seperate pieces of software, or, is Bryce to be assimilated and dissapear into the MojoWorld program? Thanks for coming forward and talking about this, btw. AgentSmith

i have only uesed the demo of MojoWorld and i agree with everything that has been said but i have always said that bryce and vue d'esprite would compliment each other real good and now with what you want to do is buy bryce from corel if you add (MojoWorld,bryce,vue d'esprite)combine the three you would have the ultimate 3D graphic's program that would leave all the other's in your dust. if you have a program that needs beta testing hook me up.

I hope it would remain 2 seperate packages, but what ever Doc and Eric decide, would certainly fly with me : ) I'm sure there would be massive support from the community either way. All I can do to help with money, is maybe upgrade from 1.1 to 2.0 ..it's been long overdue anyways, as most of the planets are being made with 2.0 nowdays, and Im missing out dang it.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=107&Form.ShowMessage=1128913

So we could all be the silent partners? ;)

Hmmm...one or two VC names come to mind who might want to play in that type of venture. Dunno if you're interested in that, Doc...but it would at least be worth a phone call or two.

OK I am in....Maybe can get some cash....

Well I guess the cats outta the bag now. I can stop chewing on my tongue every time the topic comes up now. Best of luck Doc. I'm still working on "you know who". Tom

Yes, we do know, so you can let that cat out too...;o)

LOL!!! Let all the cats out, the beans spill etc etc :-)

I WANT BRYCE SIX! YESTERDAY!!!!!!!...stamp...stamp...

I definately want in NOW....Somebody let me know....

We'd probably keep the two as separate products. Bryce and MojoWorld are very different, and each has its strengths and weaknesses. We might market future MojoWorld releases as "Bryce Pro" or something lamely marketing-speak like that. ;-) The best situation would be if both were just different interfaces to the same modeling/rendering/texturing engine. "But first we'd have to get Bryce." :-) -Mo

Therein lies the rub.

Is MojoWorld (you) going to represent at Siggraph 03 or04? (Are we going to wait outside Siggraph to beat the crap outta the Corel suits?) (j/k Corel...) AS

Getting Bryce away from Corel might be very hard if they know we want it....And where is Siggraph this year?

Beating the crap out of em wont change anything tho,but just might make us feel better...We got your back...Hey Doc awesome proggy in Mojoworld,I started to Beta-test Mojoworld awhile ago but had a major crash and lost the Beta-link,I still have my Password but could never find that link again...Was really bummed...Almost as bummed as I am right now....When I feel this bummed I go and render something SO I think I will....

I'm a bit off topic here but then again I'm not...everytime I launch Bryce I shake my head by the sight of the corel logo...always knew they would let it bleed to death....it is time to put bryce back in caring arms.. (east or west corner AS?) (j/k too corel...nice tie btw) -M-

Doc, anything I can do to help, let me know. This is a wonderful idea and I hope it works out.

Aye, this is a great thread... We should just rename the whole site Nebulosity. Granted, Bryce probably should be back in the right hands, but what's the problem? 2 Million? That's all they want for Bryce? Well open-funding it would get us absolutely nowhere, that's not how business works. For Bryce to be a viable product, it has to make money. The weird thing is that we use Bryce to make money. (some of us) Apparently, what it comes down to is interest generated and the risk vs. reward factor. If Bryce only costs a couple million, and nobody has picked it up, it's probably just not economically viable. Nobody spends that much cash with no intention of reaping rewards. I assume Sir Doc and Sir Wenger have calculated for all of this stuff, but if you compare the amount of money spent on Bryce, worldwide, to the amount of money made with Bryce? The fabled mountain scenes in the LOTR movies were piled high with Bryce, and those people made a great amount of money off of their favorite little program. THAT'S what I call investing! If nobody pics up Bryce soon, some movie studio like Play or Pixar will surely pick it up. And ruin it. Soon we'll be living in cartoon landscapes, or worse! So, Sir Doc and Sir Eric, wherever you guys are, for the love of God please nail the Bryce program! "You're our only hope..."

After five o'clock, West corner, that way we have the setting sun on our backs and in their eyes, lol. Siggraph 2003 is in San Diego, and in 2004 it will be in Los Angeles. I live in L.A., I'm slated to go to both. Whether or not Corel owns Bryce or not, I think one point that we are all frustrated with is the lack of communication with Corel. No offense to Conan Hunter, I don't know the guy at all, but it would have been nice to have heard from any Corel employee once in a while, even if it was to say "sorry, no new news, guys". If Corel goes on owning Bryce in the future, this problem NEEDS to be rectified. And, maybe I shouldn't mention Conan, it's not his job to have to come into these forums, but if Bryce's program manager could at least have communication with someone (a fellow Bryce-freak), whom in turn did come to these forums to say "sorry, no new news, guys", that would have made us all feel a little more appreciated. We are the buyers of their product, we are their long term beta-testers, and (this is my attitude talking but) Renderosity is one of the biggest artistic communities on the planet, and I have yet to see another set of Bryce users take Bryce as far as the members here. IMO, you are all the best, and if Bryce comes out of Corel's arms, and the chance is given, I'm sure you all can make a difference in Bryce's future. AgentSmith

I would welcome a new direction for Bryce, but I must admit that some of the things I most want to see in Bryce are the weakest parts of Mojoworld. Vegetation is my primary concern. If only one could combine the vegetation technology from Vue with the awesome terrains of Mojoworld and Bryce.. ;)

Doc and Eric are just the ones to take Bryce to the next level if Corel offers the right price. Like I said before Bryce already uses Ken's algorithms and a lot of Eric's code so it is a logical pairing. Having Ken's new fractals in the accessible interface of Bryce would be truly amazing. I wish everyone luck and bring on the VC money - this would be a godsend if it were to happen. Scott

Well, whatever happens, its great to know that some good people have plans for Bryce! AgentSmith, i will have to agree with you about Conan Hunter, whoms excuse ive found to be a poor one. If you love Bryce, you use the app! And you also visit the community once in a while! No one is that busy!

clic, clic, there's no place like home...there's no place home...well, I'd help in any way I could, I just bought MojoWorld 2.0 awhile back to see what was what, I like both and if they were integrated, wow, what an app they'd be...I knew some VCs in Washington,DC, but I don't think 3d apps were their thing, but it never hurts to ask...:)

Doc should definitely hook up with Eric to make the future of Bryce. The Mojoworld/Bryce product distinction need not be a problem. Anyway, the features I want to see are cellular automata-based synthesized life forms, gaseous nebula coalescence parameters, and fluid-core driven plate tectonics. Yup, that should do it.... Refined orbital dynamics are a given.... ;-) Azby Brown

Hi Doc, and there's me saying 'Mo doesn't have time to mess with this Bryce problem. . . " ha ha, at least I get something to laugh about ;-( Obviously I'm one million percent behind you if and when you get Bryce, I'd beta test for ya, you bet! Corel will have to get 'realistic' about the price eventually won't they? this is good news in that it offers a fair degree of hope. let us know how to put money into this. I don't a have a lot right now, but will help as much as is 'sensible' seeing as Bryce and MJW are a big part of my life.

"Corel will have to get 'realistic' about the price eventually won't they?" Well 2 million dollar isn't really very much. If you compare it to other software packages 2 million is really almost nothing. However 2 million can ofcoarse be a lot for the people who want to buy it, but that's probably because Pandromeda isn't really a huge company. If Microsoft would buy it it would say "2 million? Here's 10 million, you can keep the rest". This is ofcoarse only a hypothetic illustration, because having Microsoft buying bryce would almost be worse than bryce bleeding to death ;D

2 million is a lot to get together for a bunch of users like us. It's going to be difficult to get that kind of money. Some sponsoring would be a better opertunity. Maybe a nice bryce-animation TV series would raise more money... It is a big and risky thing to do though. Maybe we should make a few millionaires bryce addict and then tell them they only have to pay 2 million to keep bryce from dying :)

I for one am anxious to see what Corel has to say,And yes we could get the 2 million and if it came from Microsoft I wouldnt complain....IF....The right folks were put in charge,like Doc and Eric or even if every user of Bryce gave 5$ we would have more then enough to buy the Proggy rights...BUT then you would have all of us who would want a say and that wont work,we would need certain folks in Charge...OH heck here you go...If all of the past buyers(Several Hundred Thousand according to Corel) put up 5$ they would get a confirmation code in the Mail that would give them 50$ off the price of either the upgrade or the full product for Bryce6,And this would let us work on the code to implement Poser Animations and also let us work on Exporting whole scenes from other programs into Bryce...IE Poser Animations.....I for one will send the Money....I will start hitting all of the heavy hitters in town and see what can happen...

Now there's an idea that might actually work...and its not 2 mil were lookin for its 500 thou to 1 mil...if you beef up the inlay to 10 or 15 bucks we will need 100 thou Brycers max..and assuming Pandromeda does have some cash in the backpocket we could end up needing 'only' 50 thou people. Now..we moved the problem from getting money into finding 50000 loyal Brycers..lemme hack corel for their customerlist (Kidding corelbossman..you know I love you...great suit...new?)

I'm willing to put up some money to help. I have a couple of hundred (maybe more in the future) and if we can get this going I'm willing to toss it into the pot to help. This is on the record serious here.

If your wanting to put some money into Doc's hands for buying bryce, then purchase mojoworld if you havn't already : )

I would be happy to pledge $50 towards a purchase fund. Another idea might be for a potential buyer to present a document of intentions for the development of Bryce along with a subscription list for upgrades and new buyers. This would help give an indication of the viability of any investment. Years ago, artists and publishers would fund projects with subscriptions. Projects only went ahead if the interest was there. The trick is to get as much of the Bryce Community on board to show support thereby giving potential investors confidence that the risk is a viable one. I would be happy to purchase an upgrade in advance of its development. I don't mind waiting as long as I know there is something at the end of the wait. Product loyalty is a two way street. Corel don't seem to be interested in the loyalty we have shown so far, perhaps someone else would appreciate it more? They are like the rich kid with the best toys, they don't value what they have but wont let anyone else play.

Making Doc rich is next weeks issue...right now the focus is on Bryce :P

I would love to help, Bryce is too bigger part of my life to see it just disappear. I could pledge 100, whatever that is in $. If we could get it organised it would be a saviour.

Brendan, I'm all for subscriptions to future versions of upgrade, but as you say, it's a two-way street. I'd very much like for it not to be like Microsoft subscriptions where they don't promise you anything.

Like I said in other posts we need to organize and with Doc coming forward and showing an interest then perhaps it wouldn't be too difficult to raise the money. What I said earlier was that we need someone trustworthy to take control of the funds and I think you would all agree that Doc would be the perfect person to do this. He is in the right position, has the motivation and as he said still has the love for Bryce that is needed to take it forward to new hights. I would be very happy to contribute to this and have already spoken to my bank about opening another account that is solely for saving for this project. This will mean that when the time comes to hand over the cash it is there. Also the idea that whoever contributes gets a discount on an upgrade or whole program is perfect, no-one who contributes could argue with that. Bryce is a labour of love for many of us and I hate the idea that it is being left to die in the hands of a company who does not have the vision to improve on a wonderful program. There are few things on my wish list for a new Bryce and there are only two that I come back to again and again, and these are for a faster render engine and the ability to export Bryce primatives and the models made from them, oh, and for the new Bryce to be able to export the models already created in Bryce. That's me done for now I think, but I'll probably be back later. Cheers all. Cat

Doc, maybe you should set up some kind of bryce fund. It be a lot of work to keep track of donators, but worth it if it gets the money that you need.

A good database would do most of the tracking work, so that shouldn't be too terrible. What would also be necessary is a good contract between the company and the customers so that people are clear about what is happening with their money and what they are getting in return. If this looks feasable, blanketing the appropriate news outlets with press releases would alert other Brycers to the situation. Lin

If Doc and Eric are in charge, put me down for $10 towards the purchase of Bryce, it's well worth it...:>

I've got some money I could give too. Let's see what Doc thinks about this great idea. If this idea is going to become reality we should be able to get it in the Renderosity flyer and some magazines like 3DWorld and Computer Arts. That would give use millions of potential donators and at least several tens of thousands should be bryce-users and most of those would probably be willing to spend a little money on the survival of their favourie program. So let's see what Doc thinks...

I would like to see 100,000 loyal users support the Idea with say 20$ and in return we give them a percentage off the first and second upgrade...Also we develope a website and in this website we have a Beta-forum where the higher ups that we will put in charge shall visit the forum on a daily basis this is a REQUIREMENT where they will be able to offer advice and help out with all of the small problems,Also we would need a Plugin developer page also Pages for the light,Tree,Plant,Effects,Atmosphere,And Movie/animation import...These things take money but the really good thing about all of this is Both Programs are already there and we dont have to complie them both all we would have to do is make an import module for both programs....I am more then willing to help out in any way I can just give me a Jingle DOC...

I would be delighted to do beta testing on any new programming that comes along. So you can count me in too. Cat

As stated previously, I'm in. The money ($250 CDN) has been set aside pending this as a go.

You're fast Incarnadine so far I've got the princely sum of 50, approx $75 I think, but I will be adding to it from time to time. Cat

Lets get a bit more realistic...I seriously doubt Renderosity, 3DWorld and Computer Arts have anywhere near 100k per month in printings, heck, probably far less. (versus millions).

I also doubt that there is even 50k users still using Bryce. Most people probably bought 4, used it, and a small percentage bought 5. I bet you would be lucky to even FIND ten thousand Bryce users let alone get them to donate $100+.

Maybe some of the users here should get together and work with Doc, Eric & Corel to make a few plugins or stand alone programs to export terrains and models. Sell that on Renderosity and see if you have any buyers. If only a couple hundred buy it then sadly, Bryce will die.

I would love to see a Bryce 6 too, but I'm a developer (ColdFusion & Flash) and I can tell you that development costs are far higher than most anticipate, take far longer, and tend to fail far more often than all would like.

For all of you saying how much farther you have pushed Bryce than was ever anticipated...maybe Bryce should die a sweet death...consider spending your hard earned $ on a product with a larger user based and more refined code. Imagine what the true artists in all of you could do with a Lightwave, 3D Max, Maya, etc!!! If you think you are making Bryce sing, imagine using something far more powerful. Sure, it costs a lot, but it might be worth it.

I already tried Lightwave and half a dozen other "hi-end" 3D programs and they basically suck. The most basic features are implemented in an unnecessarily complex fashion. Put another way, they are poorly thought out and hard to use. It's like getting a new 900 hp super car with every luxury imaginable, but you need a week to find the steering wheel and a year to figure out how to drive it to the grocery store. Power and features do not justify a poor interface.

Here's a couple of old points(as you know); Bryce = $200 3D Max, Maya, etc = $1,600 - $3,500+ And, it's not a matter of (a MUCH, MUCH larger) cost really, it's beacause we love the program is all. And, we all know that it will not die a sweet death, even if a newer Bryce never comes out, far too many people own it, use it, love it. Larger user base?! The Bryce sections at Renderosity are second only to Poser in volume and size of it's; user base, resources and galley count. That still makes it WAY bigger than any of the higher-end program sections. The artists who own expensive, higher-end programs are always telling me to give up my Bryce toy and spend thousands of dollars...just like they did. Well, sure one day I most likely will (Maya), but it's gonna be installed right next to my Bryce. ;o) Unfortunately, making plugins for Bryce would most likely be pointless right now, since it seems Corel is not talking and just sitting on Bryce, and we kinda need their help to develop plugins. And, whenever plugins are made, and if sold just out of Renderosity, they will HAVE to be promoted on a very wide scale; i.e. promoted through Computer Arts, 3D world Mag, etc., so thet won't die sweetly... And, really we wouldn't deal with just those mags, but with say, a company called Future Network, who deals with those specialist magazines and websites. They publish over 80 magazines and over 30 magazine websites from 5 different countries, they also license 32 of its titles, making 60+ local editions in an additional 23 countries. So, there ya go. And, yes, raising money is a shot in the dark, but it's movement towards a goal, doesn't matter if it pans out. If the movement itself creates enough attention so that at least Bryce lands in the hands of a company that will care for it AND it users, that's all that matters. Sure higher-end programs are/can be better. But, most of the Bryce users will never, ever spend the money on that, so they stick to what they can afford, and love. The users that end up taking 3D to a career, sure they'll get a professional package, no doubt. But, how many times have I seen in the galleries "Modeled in 3D Studio Max, rendered in Bryce"? That's gotta tell you something, lol. AS