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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 21 6:06 am)
Subject: V3-Hybrid
'll have to ask Lady Cherry how much bandWidth i have on my site(Hosted by her). Crescent, Yes you can host her on your front page... The only thing that we ask people who host the file, is to keep the ZIP intact. This is to protect Daz's copyright! And thanks for hosting her!! ;-) fls13, sorry mate! I don't intend to buy P5! Unless, i can get it for 50 can$... :-O But, maybe someone else will take the plunge... Thanks, NetherWorks! Great TeamMate!! Oh! Forgot! A little surprise will be coming to complement this project... Hint: there's a very casual mention of it in the html file(Readme). ;-) Marco
Thanks Crescent! That would be wonderful. I'm really keeping an eye on my bandwidth at the moment. LOL. Patricia, doh! I didn't think about the mac peoples. Sorry bout that, guess I'm a little too PC (and I thought I'd never say that in this lifetime... LOL!). I'm not sure about an alternative, I could ask the folks at PoserPros about it.
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Attached Link: http://www.fallencity.net/treasure/guest2.php
Okay, it's up. Don't worry, the entire .zip is intact. A) It would be rude to modify it B) I'm just too lazy ;-) It's on my Guest Page, at the bottom of the page. As I put in the IM, if there's anything that needs to be changed, please let me know. Cheers!
Crescent, I get a "404" error message at the link. LOL, to B! As for the "A", you'd be surprised how many people just don't have any manners! So, i will call you SIR! :-) And i wasn't worried! I was just stating the Obvious for Legal reasons! Don, What's the ?? Patricia, have you tried to use RTEncoder with "Virtual PC"?? I've had pretty good results at work with many applications, including big ones like Pshop, Max, etc... we have version 2.0 Marco
Marco, Thank you---I looked into getting Virtual PC for my Mac, but it's way out of my price range, unfortunately. I seem to remember reading somewhere that there was a Mac utility that does the same thing, but I don't think it was here....but with my memory, who knows! Maybe tomorrow I can search at Poser Pros and RDNA and see if I can track one down. Thank you for the suggestion anyway :)
Toolmaker, Hmm... Those are pretty personal questions there. ;) The questions would almost lead me to believe that you were a DAZ employee. ;) Actually, Viomar and I were working on this seperately, though he was further along with it. If I remember correctly, we talked about doing this jointly in a "Fitting V2 clothing to V3 thread". He modeled the neck piece and worked up the cr2. I ran the figure through a good bit of testing (I'm pretty thorough when it comes to beta testing). We pitched ideas on how we were going to protect DAZ' original meshes too and came up with the double-RTEncoding solution. A few days ago, I decided to work up some matching neck morphs for V1/V2's body. There were a few fixes here and there to the cr2 and I wrote a couple of alternate ways to load the pre-V3 morphs into the figure. Honestly, I didn't have a problem with V3-on-V2 and getting Victoria clothes to fit. Yes, it was mainly done to get the morph targets to transfer effortlessly. I though this was a better solution to using Codetwister's Tailor - though I own and love that program, its a bit touch-and-go for moving morphs. I think the default V3 (head and body) has a pretty good range of morphs (upon purchasing both the head and body morph packages). I would have liked to have seen an "Anime" morph like in V2.
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Praxis, Nope! I sold it 2 years ago for a good price. And yes, i also had the Apple IIc. I actually started my programming days on it, with Merlin Assembler if memory serves... Now you know that i'm a dinosaur! LOL Come to think of it, it started earlier then that, it was on a Burroughs 1800 with "punch cards" & Huge Magnetic disks... LOL, NetherWorks! Your keen eyes don't miss much! ;-) Maybe, we should write a book about the adventure... ROTFL TMG, Hi!(Waves hand) Sorry, Mate! I've been out of this society for a bit. Slowly getting my feet wet again! Well, Glad some of you find this creature useful! I don't have anything as "Grand" in the works. But, stuff will start coming on a regular basis. Just keep your eyes opened... Later! Marco
Thanks TMG! I'm not a good swimmer. but, my stride is steadier! ;-) A Note to all that may encounter "Decoding" problems!! if for some odd reason you can't decode either Part #1 or #2, then it's most likely that one of the .OBJ files you have has been "Corrupted". It happened to me when texting her! LOL Found out that my V3 .OBJ had been changed! Doh! So, if this happens simply unpack a Fresh version of the Geometry file & replace the "Corrupt" one. Oh! If any of you find a solution for Mac Owners. Please email either me or NetherWorks! We will add these notes. Thank You! Marco
Netherworks "Those are pretty personal questions there. ;) The questions would almost lead me to believe that you were a DAZ employee. ;)" Ah, I should explain myself. I am a multimedia and 3D software programmer, working independently, on utilities that overcome some of the weaknesses of Poser. You could say I'm working on competition to Tailor, though that isn't quite accurate. My main goal this year is to help there to be a wealth of inexpensive 3D characters and clothing. Whether I work with DAZ or not is a question for the future. Right now, Poser is what is available, so I am writing utilities for it. I appreciate any insights into what problems you and other users of Poser are trying to solve. I also wish to more deeply understand what works and doesn't work in the solutions available from DAZ, as well as others, though DAZ seems the most sophisticated, so I am paying much attention to their stuff. All this will become clearer in about a month...
Problems? Not really problems. More limitations on Poser. Or simply trying to have more options available. Not everyone wants to buy a whole new wardrobe for V3. I mean, i spent over a thousand on V2's wardobe. So, for me this was the most logical & efficient solution to this dilema. Hence, V3-Hybrid! It's not the first time such an Hybrid has been done. Sometimes, we do it just for the Fun of it or to see if it can be done. So, it can sometimes simply start as a personal challenge(This was the case for me). And then, hey! Maybe others would find this useful too! So, this was not to show a Weakness or problem with a Daz Product! I think & i hope that it will actually broaden their versatility! That's what i love about this community! So many ideas, so many POV! This is by far the most Colorful & enthusiastic mix of people i have ever met!(That's a compliment BTW). Ok! Now back to your regular programing... Marco
ToolmakerSteve, Well then. As far as shortcomings of Poser, I could write a book - I think many of us could. In shortcomings, I'm referring to pecularities within the program as it is, not things they missed. For example, you could say that 3-D Acceleration (D3D, OpenGL) would have been a godsend - that would have made me upgrade to P5 (still with P4), but besides things like that... Things I'd like to see Poser 4/Pro Pack do: On the Program level - - The ability to free unused textures from memory. - The ability to resize a character (using Scaling) without it screwing up the Joint Parameters in the shoulders and buttocks. - Ability to save the actual sketch renders. There are a couple of workarounds already - screenshots and setting it to output an animation with only one frame. As far as character-level utilities - - A clothing conforming program that can take a solid mesh and cut it into bodyparts to match a standard figure. Perhaps on the same vein as how The Tailor approximates morph vertices. - There's already a couple of programs that plug an already divided obj file into an existing cr2 (to adopt the Joint Parameters and such). How about one that would adjust the JPs to accomodate for non-tight fitting clothing (i.e., increasing the spheres of influence, bends and so forth). That's all I can think of at the top of my head for the moment. I get ideas all the time though - might be a tumor. LOL. Also, besides the inherent weaknesses in Poser, there are all sorts of problems that pop up working with .obj files in general. Now I'm not entirely sure if it's due to the nature of the .obj itself or the way a modeling program reads/writes the file format. Sometimes I really wish we could work with .3ds files. sigh. .objs can easily get re-arranged or inverted. This causes problems with reversed normals, degenerate facets, morph targets that become inert and so forth. Plus, .objs are pretty large, though they compress well.
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NetherWorks, that's a great answer to ToolMaker! I second the "Freeing Memory of Unused textures". They should load only when they are needed. Yes OBJ files do have shortcomings. But, the fact that they are Text files allows for some interesting customizing. As far as "Reverse Normals" go. The info is there in OBJ. The problem usually comes when you export from a third app. So it's mainly dependant on the quality of the Export Plugin of the 3D modeler. For example, Harbware's OBJ plugs for Max are among the best out there. Scale, poly(Quads, Tris), Mats, groups, precision, rotation, face normals are all accounted for. 3ds I/O plugs are more stable & unified across the 3D Mods, probably cause it was been implemented earlier then OBJ. "- A clothing conforming program that can take a solid mesh and cut it into bodyparts to match a standard figure. Perhaps on the same vein as how The Tailor approximates morph vertices." Now that sounds very interesting! Marco
A version of The Tailor that could make decent reductions in size would be great. The Tailor is great for making morphs to turn breasts into watermelons, but try to use it to make smaller breasts, or flatten them for male characters, and it gets really jagged and icky. That alone would be an instant "Credit card is locked and ready to buy" program. The items that Netherworks and OpticalSingenoid listed would be great as well.
Crescent, I agree with you on the Tailor. If I might add further, it doesn't appear that the program differentiates between "types" of clothing. Pants tend to come out ok, but it would be nice if it would use a different algorithm to calculate targets for clothing that doesn't have "legs" like skirts and dresses.
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Lots of useful info! Primarily I'll respond to the cloth-adaptation comments, as that is what I am currently working on. But I am reading all the comments on any aspect of Poser quite carefully, as I have ambitious future plans! Marco- "Problems? Not really problems. More limitations on Poser. Or simply trying to have more options available." That's my attitude, too. And since I program, and understand the math behind the magic, if I can clearly understand a given limitation, there may be something I can do about it - either as an add-on to Poser, or by developing an improved approach in some future 3D product. I am determined to increase the power and ease-of-use of low-cost 3D, so more people can be enticed to enter this community. :) ****************************************** "Not everyone wants to buy a whole new wardrobe for V3. I mean, i spent over a thousand on V2's wardobe." ==> Would you pay $30 for a utility whose sole purpose was to convert clothes to V3? Similar to Tailor in that those clothes would handle any V3 morphs, including future ones. Or does V3-Hybrid satisfy the V3 clothing issue for you? ****************************************** "So, for me this was the most logical & efficient solution to this dilema. Hence, V3-Hybrid!" This is fun. I too like the different ideas and solutions. A big communal treasure hunt! ****************************************** Crescent- "A version of The Tailor that could make decent reductions in size would be great." This is the most difficult area of the body to clothe realistically. I have worked carefully on this issue. Further discussion next month. :) "That alone would be an instant "Credit card is locked and ready to buy" program." I am glad to hear that :) My approach involves considerable work on my part, per human figure. ==> So, I'd like to hear people's personal priorities for human figures to support early on. NOTE: once I've supported a figure, that includes all future body morphs of that figure. ****************************************** Netherworks -"Pants tend to come out ok, but it would be nice if it would use a different algorithm to calculate targets for clothing that doesn't have "legs" like skirts and dresses. " Heh heh. Gee, a utility that did that properly would be quite handy, wouldn't it? ;-)
ToolMaker-"Or does V3-Hybrid satisfy the V3 clothing issue for you?" Yes that does sastisfy me! Cause the important enhancement in V3 for me is the Head! So, to load V3's body as well seems redundant! I guess, if you do Nudes, then her Body is better then V2's one... And the fact that 90% of my Vicky 1/2 are "Tailored". But don't judge this community's Wants & needs by my own! I do very few renders myself. Poser is mostly a way for me to relax & have Fun! So just Hobby! My real 3D work is pure "mechanical & architectural" commercial projects. I like your Attitude! You seem like someone who's truly interested in ideas & Input! Hope you get all the info you seek! And understanding the Math behind the Algorythms is a must in programming any type of App! I remember quite well all the "advanced" math courses i took along programming. :-) Yes, the only way i can think of that a prog like tailor could differentiate between "pants" & "Skirts" would be to add a special "Tag" in either the .cr2 or .boj files... Or have a "Dialog Box" that would ask the user to specify it prior to loading it. Marco
Netherworks- "The ability to resize a character (using Scaling) without it screwing up the Joint Parameters in the shoulders and buttocks." This is an issue I need to understand better. Please describe in more detail. Is this resizing the character as a whole, or resizing specific body parts? Also, what are the symptoms that occur?
N'works: "A clothing conforming program that can take a solid mesh and cut it into bodyparts to match a standard figure." That is a good idea. I've already got the hard work done, since I project the cloth against the body. I'll keep that in mind for a future utility. "...programs that plug an already divided obj file into an existing cr2... How about one that would adjust the JPs to accomodate for ..." For fitting a given human figure, e.g. Vicki2, I believe most clothing can be completed with a handful of pre-made alternative CR2's. Basically, no sphereMats vs tight sphereMats vs. loose sphereMats, in a few common combinations; e.g. a skirt may be tight around buttocks yet loose below that. I was hoping to avoid more detailed customization of JPs. Am I being unrealistic? Perhaps I will need extensive Beta-testing of a wide range of clothes...
Toolmaker, The Scaling Thing: On human jointed figures, I've found that scaling or even using magnets to change the dimensions of certain body parts has a distortive effect on adjoining areas when posed. This is particularly present on the Right and Left Collars and how they influence the Shoulders, Hands versus the Fingers and Buttocks versus the Thighs. This appears to be mainly of problem of how joints work in Poser itself - perhaps it is too simplistic a system OR its too clunky to be precise. Anyways, its a wishful thinking thing. DAZ did a great job on the joint setup of the V3 figure. A combination of careful bodypart recutting, joint-controlled morphs and better joint zones. I'd really like to see some of this with a lower resolution figure - a V2 sized mesh or smaller. I like the V3 character, but add a few items to a scene and you can see the slowdown due to Poser non-acceleration (3D) and mesh size. Premade plugin Cr2's: Yes, I think some of that would work as a good base, but would still need adjustments by the modeler/figure designer. It's certainly better than none at all. ;) Besides, it's certainly worth more investigation. I just figured that if the joint zones and so forth have certain sizes and parameters based on the shape and grouping of a default figure's body then... Logically, the shape and grouping of a clothing item could be adjusted by the difference between itself and the parent figure it was designed for. Just a feverish thought. :)
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NetherWorks, keep those "Feverish" thoughts coming! :-) I think that scaling is directly dependant on JPs. That's what i realized when i compared V2 & V3. I think the best results are obtained, when one uses MTs instead. My only "pet peeve" for Tailor is that you can't do "Batches" of BodyMorphs... But, i'm a "Lazy Bum". The more the Putter does, the Merrier! :-) One thing i noticed is that dresses that don't use the "leg parts" are better. ex.: Billy-t's China Dress. There's also the other approach: use "BodyHandles" or "Phanthom" legs. Now a funny thought oocured to me, what if there's a way to modify the "influence Sphere's" shape. I mean it's starts as a sphere(can become elliptoid). What about Square ones? It's late! Don't mind me... Marco
Netherworks--"if the joint zones ... sizes and parameters ... the shape and grouping of a default figure's body ... shape and grouping of a clothing item adjusted by the difference between itself and the parent figure...Just a feverish thought. :)" Interesting fever :) I am keen on using differences between cloth and figure, and between original figure and target figure. Haven't figured out how to apply that to the JP's. We'll see how well my "basic" approach works in first release, then I can experiment. --"scaling certain body parts... distorting adjacent ... how joint parameters work". Thanks for the details. Think I'll ignore this for first release... --"V3 joint-controlled morphs" One reason for me NOT to do V3 as my first targeted figure, even though the need for clothes is greatest there. I'm solving for a simpler character first.
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Attached Link: http://www.thenetherworks.com
This is a joint effort by Viomar (OpticalSingenoid) and I. This is a combined character: Victoria 3 on Victoria's (1 or 2) Body. You might be thinking "why? there's a V3 to V2 in the original package..." True, but... The V3-Hybrid takes V3 head injection, wears V1 & V2 clothes AND natively can use V1 & V2 body morphs. Mwahahahaha! Notes: The figure retains V1/V2 mapping. Russel's RTEncoder is required to decode the .obj file (it's double encoded to both V3 and V1 (or 2) - so previous purchase of both V3 and V1 (or V2) is required). The RTEncoder is at PoserPros at the top of their freebie thread, but I think it's in freestuff here too. I'm temporarily (until bandwidth goes berserk) hosting it at my homesite: http://www.thenetherworks.com. Its in the Freebie Zone! If anyone would like to mirror the file, I'd appreciate it - it always helps to spread out the bandwidth a bit. The file is just under 7 Megs..