I've finally upgraded to a 2.8 Gb Pent4 machine, and I'm looking to upgrade from Poser 4. My dilemma is: should I go to Pro Pack or Poser 5 ?? I read somewhere that P5 is a bit unstable and released too early. Are other people having problems? Help and recommendations much appreciated. Thanks.

I'd recommend Pro Pack, P5 does nothing but crash on me.

Though I have P5 and it runs stable enough on my system, I find myself using Pro Pack all the time and NOT P5. Poser 5 is simply too sluggish. I know more Ram would probably help me, but so far I only use P5 when I NEED P5 specific effects. Personally I think I'd go for Pro pack and wait for DAZ|Studio, if I had the choise today. But again, Poser 5 does not crash or behave odd. It is just slower than Pro pack. On the other hand it has this new library system, so if you haven't got PBooost, P5 is almost worth the money just for that :o) Oh and I love the meterials room. Takes some time (for me a LOT of time) to really explore and get used to, but I love the things you can make there :o)

Argh and that should of course be mAterials room :o/

I'd go with Pro Pack, at least it's a pretty sure bet it will work. With P5 it's a gamble. I have both and when P5 isn't crashing, it still slows to a crawl on scenes Pro Pack handles with ease.

P5 I have both and for the first month I kept using ppp but I forced my self to use P5 now I dont even think of opening ppp, P5 is just more powerful more tools more options better renders, yes it loads slowly some times and yes it takes time to get used to the new dials but once you do you wont like using the old ones. And the library layout makes things much simpler to find. With the machine youve got definitely P5 take time to learn it and youll love it.

Are poser 4 files, like poses, figures and props, compatiable in Poser 5? And whats the advantages of getting Pro pack?

Do you need P5? What do plan doing with it? Stills or animations? If animations ask the animators, if you do stills do you use Photo shop to paint hair, clothes, filter, blur,dodge, and burn? If so stick with P4 or Propack. if you want 3d stills with great textures and effects get P5. Poser 5 is not Poser4, take time to learn the software, get organized and stay organized. I have Poser 5 on 3 machines, and I have had few problems, and would never go back to P4.

Niles, I suppose you are working within the EULA guidelines?? and have 3 licenses? F. You may only use the Program on a single computer, meaning that you must treat the Program like a book. Like a book means that the Program may be used by any number of people and may be freely moved from one computer to another so long as no possibility exists of the Program being used at more than one computer simultaneously. More than one person at a time cannot read the same copy of a book, and this restriction applies to the Program. The Company is pleased to offer site licenses for multiple simultaneous users. Please contact the Company at the address below for details.

sabretalon - don't go making assumptions, it's not nice and not needed.

Not an assumption, just pointing out what he is saying!

Everyone who has p5 knows what the eula is, so by presuming to remind you look as though you are assuming that it is not being followed.

But how many have actually read the EULA? All I was attempting to do was to point out that they may or may not be adhering to something they have agreed not to do!

Just pointing out what you are saying:)

You know, you can INSTALL Poser on as many machines as you want. The key issue is that you don't USE it on multiple machines at once.

I agree with Mock (again, I just did that in another thread...). I chickened out and continued to use my ppp for mimic/pose animations then would save and go out and open up my P5 to do production rendering. Since P5sr2.1, been getting gutzy and using P5 - on laptop (yes is legal to install on A laptop and A desktop (confirmed with cl at release 1) I cannot do anything other than a plain draft style render on laptop but everything else works great. Can even use remote control from laptop to run my desktop with P5 and it will render production. Difference? my desktop is 1g mem, p42.8, virmem set to 4096 x 4096 with over 150g free harddrive running xppro in classic mode, laptop is 198m 650 with only 25g harddrive free in win98SE. Now I am even building my characters (non people), made in carrera, in P5 and barely touch PPP. P5 material room is a killer to learn but once you play around with it - WOW. Hair, cloth ok - face room - who cares in my book. So as a final.... I would upgrade to p5 if I were you

If I was starting from scratch I would definitely go for Poser 5. I have been playing in the material room, took a while to get used to but now getting suitable results. The hair room is great, although I do tend to go over the top in there and end up with hair having seemingly gazillions of strands and taking an eternity to render. I have PPP as well and do still use it from time to time. I am still learning how to utilise both for my requirements and enjoying every minute of it! I have no major problems with poser 5 or PPP but I think I lean more towards 5 because of the material and hair rooms although not for the face room, haven't got the hang of that yet! In the end I suppose it will come down to cost and what you actually want to do.

I haven't used Poser 5 for months, even though I couldn't wait to get it. I don't want PPP, because I don't need anything it offers. If I had a more powerful computer, I'd be using Poser 5 now instead of Poser 4.

You can't use P5 poses in P4, (at least I can't) this is a straight import, no name changes or anything. The files exist, you can se them with p3d0 but they don't show up when you open the folder in the libraries. later jb

praxis22, If you are using Poser 4 (not ProPack) then it will not read compressed files which P5 makes by default. If you want to read pose files generated in P5 on earlier versions of Poser, you must go to your options in P5 and Uncheck the "Save Compressed" option before saving your pose. The uncompressed files will be visible in P4.

PeterWahoo I only got my faster computer a couple of weeks ago, and am just now getting P5 set up on it. Before that I was using a 733MHz P3 with Poser 5 and it worked fine. The only things that really slow it down are dynamic hair and dynamic cloth. If you stay away from those and set your render options carefully, it can render even FASTER than Poser 4. Those people who complain about the speed of P5 just don't know how to use it properly or they would be singing it's praises. If is unfair to compare render speeds of Poser 5 Firefly to Poser 4 because they are totally different types of render engines. If you want FAIR comparisons, then compare P5 firefly render times with Bryce or Vue (because it is more like them than it is like P4). Then you will be shouting about how amazingly FAST Poser 5 is!

I have 2 copies of Poser5, pre-order the first, got the second on Amazon (real steal). When P5 first came out the EULA was Discussed and Cussed and many times. So I'm pretty sure I have my all basses covered. So now I can read 2 books at the same time... while watching TV. ;)

The 'great masses' can take a Vicki 3 out of the box and use her to get a pretty picture. The great masses have to fight like hell to get Judy to look half-way decent, and she usually looks like she's in drag and somehow still not quite.. 'real'.Or perhaps that's what most of the people that have posted with her here are into? :P I'm going by what I have seen posted here at Renderosity. Vicki 3 & Judy just don't compare. Judy's like 'Posette-Plus'. Vicki is way out of their league in mesh smoothness and functionality. Vicki can be anything... and usually still look good. :D Now Don, that poor guy, he looks like he has potential. I like him as an alternative to the usually buff Mike, but I would never say that he's a better mesh than Mike.

This member of the great masses can't get Vicky 3 to work unless everything else is shut down because of her vast memory sucking ways. I can only use her morphs in Poser 4, which makes her tedious beyond belief. Her clothes are a joke, for the most part, because of the emphasis on fetish/fantasy stuff (not her fault but for everyone who can get Tailor to make V2 stuff into V3, there's another of us who have given up on the whole miserable process). I think it is fair to say that everyone has their preferences. I use Vicky 3, but I like Judy and Don. Each character has its advantages and disadvantages. I think Don is a wonderful model, and I enjoy Judy. I use Vicky 3 when I need business as usual Barbie clone because she's not worth my time injecting and dejecting her all over the place. Oh well. I doubt if there is any product out there who will please everyone all the time.

I agree with dialyn, Each user should decide for themselves what their needs are, but people who favor Vicky 2 or Vicky 3 (which I also find cumbersome and tedious) should not bad-mouth Judy just because they like Victoria. As for the quality of the meshes, the P5 figures are superior for technical reasons, not aesthetic reasons (which vary widely by personal taste). The fact is that you can NOT pose any Millennium figure with arms or legs bent anywhere near 90 degrees (such as sitting, knealing or picking their nose) without the joints looking terrible. You just don't see that type of joint deformation on Don or Judy when they are posed to even greater extremes. And P5 figures with SDS have fewer polygons, but render as if they were figures with TWICE the polygons of V3 - all without bogging down your system. They are truly advanced figures from a modeliing standpoint. What the p5 figures need is some of these talented people around here to make some nice body morphs for them. Maybe some day we might actually see scenes with BOTH Judy and Victoria in them - getting along like best friends! But please stop criticising the P5 figures for their looks alone - get off yer a** and make them look better if you want that - it is really easy with the face room!

Sorry, Caly, I really didn't mean to challenge Vicky 3 specifically, but was referring more to the technology behind the Millennium figures which are primarily Michael 1 & 2, Victoria 1 & 2 and the Mil Kids. Victoria 3 is undeniably the most complex figure that DAZ has produced, and is visually stunningly attractive. But to achieve that degree of control, they have pushed old technology to its limits with increased polygon counts and a massive array of morphs. The result is a figure that is very cumbersome to use, especially if you have multiple figures in a scene. On the other hand, the P5 figures use SDS which requires fewer polygons to achieve the same degree of detail as a high resolution mesh and are therefore much easier to pose and manipulate within Poser. And finally, bear in mind that Poser 5 complete with figures and several clothing items for each of the 4 family members costs LESS than Victoria 3 with morphs, textures, and a few clothing items. So when the question is whether someone should invest in Poser 5 versus ProPack, I think the decision is clearly in favor of P5. As far as my comments about the figures goes I guess I am just getting tired of people taking every opportunity to bash Poser and Praise DAZ when neither has anything to do with the subject. The Poser 5 figures are adequate for many people and are technically superior because they use technically superior technology. And yes they have problems, but the problems can all be fixed with morphs because the mesh itself is very stable. On the other hand, the problems with Michael and Victoria cannot be fixed with morphs because they are integrated in the mesh. My comments are not intended to discourage anyone from buying DAZ figures or even to suggest that Don and Judy can replace them, but I do wish to defend Poser from being unfairly attacked by somewhat biased people who can't see beyond the next breast morph. I may not be a V3 fan, but I VERY anxiously await Michael 3! ;-)

I think it is a case of each to their own! It is clear that different people like different people (victoria or judy) I don't think that people are answering the question that was asked, when they are arguing the merits of victoria or judy! I thought the question started simply enough, Pro pack or Poser 5. If I could afford it, I would buy every poser model going. Why? because I think they all have something to offer. Daz have some great models and I also think that Judy and Don are great and considering that you get Judy and Don when you purchase Poser 5, the value of the software is therefore excellent.

And P5 figures with SDS have fewer polygons I have to correct this. All of the objects (including figures) in Poser use the same underlying description and technology. All the features such as polygon smoothing are therfore, in fact, available to both P5 and the millenium figures (I've always assumed but never checked that this is on by default for all figures). And, to be technically pedantic, SDS (subdivision smoothing) does not exist in P5. During the pre-release hype, some people became confused between this technology and the "micropolygon subdivision" technique that is the basis of the Firefly renderer as with all other renders that are based on REYES technology. This is a polygon (not mesh) level process and occurs towards the end of the rendering pipleline allowing subsampling, displacement mapping and smoothing. Now, the fact that those people who "became confused" about these technologies and patently didn't understand what was being implemented in P5 were actually the same people who were subsequently cited as the "Poser 5 Architects" when the product was actually released a few weeks later was, for me, one of the early indications that thing were seriously amiss. In answer to the original question, however, I still have to say, albeit with some reservation, that, if you have the money to burn and you don't specifically need ProPack's export features, I would still plump for P5 just for the additional functionality. There are a lot of problems still, but they are slowly getting addressed. Nevertheless, it's definitely worth keeping your P4 installation, since setting up complex scenes in P4 before transferring them to P5 for final rendering, saves a lot of frustration if your "pushing the envelope" in any way. Bill

Well, I have Vicky 3 and Judy/Don, and Vicky 2, and Mike, etc., etc., but I don't feel I have to "prove" anything when it comes to a personal preference. Vicky 3 is difficult for me to work with because of the memory she takes. I'm getting a new computer this week. Maybe I'll fall in love with Vicky 3. I doubt it. I get bored very quickly with all the manipulations. I'm a simple person. I like things to be easy. Doing anything with Vicky 3 is like entering into a wrestling match for each character. I'm not looking forward to Mike 3 because I suspect it will be more the same...a million morphs, very little clothes, memory demanding, time chewing. It's my choice...my preference. Anyone can do what they want. I have to be careful of how I use my resources. I wouldn't buy Vicky 3 again if I had it to do over. Will I buy Mike 3? I would wait and see if Daz supports the character with something other than skins before I purchased anything.

Dialyn, the posts requesting proof I put in this thread were in response to Ron's post #20, more about the 'technology'- how advanced the meshes themselves are, than personal preference on beauty. I have an old computer, I'm talking only 400 mghz, and Vicki 3 is not a problem. And I have to admit, I love the sensation of... 'personalizing'? I get when I put into V3 just the morphs that I want to use, and make her 'more my own'. Plus the fact that she's not heavily morph-loaded to start with probably is what makes her usable for me. As for the clothes, you can't expect a new figure to have a ton of clothes right off the bat. :) However, I don't know if you have a Poserworld subscription? Poserworld has done a ton of real-life clothes for Vicki 3, it's been great. Also, with the Daz Catsuit, and the Morphing Fantasy dress, I find that I can make up just about any outfit. Need a skirt? The dress.... Need shorts? The Catsuit... As for prices and more 'bang for your buck', if you're a Daz Platinum Club member, Vicki 3 stuff is cheap- 1.99 a pop for most things. Ditto for Poserworld members, and he's done stuff for V3 male as well. Oh let's not forget the RDNA Real Deals- tons of V3 stuff for $2.50 each. The sheer amount of support that is out there for the Daz figures really makes them a great deal. As for Poser 5 itself, I don't like to say much about it. I don't own it. But going by what people have posted, it seems either you're lucky and it works on your particular computer system with minimal issues, or you're unlucky and it's an expensive paperweight. Now Poser 4 Pro-Pack, it's pretty stable across systems, but it seems to be really useful if you want to use the plug-ins it comes with so that you can export to other 3d apps.

Wow, Ronstuff - what texture map is that? It looks very good. I tried rendering MY michael up like that, and I didn't get the same results. :-D

"I get bored very quickly with all the manipulations. I'm a simple person. I like things to be easy.</>" dialyn, I'm the exact same way and at first I found v3 tricky to use. But after becoming familiar with the morphs, and developing a "most-used" set, v3 became much less of a hassle than v2. I save a ton of time with v3 now; I know where the morphs I need are and only use what I need. No more scrolling through endless, hard-to-read dials everytime I want to change an expression or pose. She really is, IMO, easier to use and less of a resource hog than v2 or m2 once you get the hang of the injection morphs. As for the P4/PP vs P5 issue...I stand by my original statement. P5--even if it works--is a waste unless you really need the added features and have tons of time to wait for screen re-draws and renders.

Dang, I forgot to turn off italics. Sorry.

Many thanks to everyone for their input on this. I'm leaning towards P5, though having just phoned the agents out here in Australia, I'm not so sure - A$459 for an upgrade seems a bit excessive. And Mimic2 sounds terrific ... Oh, decisions decisions!!!

"You know, you can INSTALL Poser on as many machines as you want. The key issue is that you don't USE it on multiple machines at once."

Exactly. No way is anyone going to tell me I have to buy second licenses to add all my programs to my laptop.

Installing on several computers is not a problem but if you are rendering in poser on your laptop and at the same time using poser on your pc to set up another image. Then technically you (you being anyone in general that is doing this) are violating the EULA. I think someone mentioned they were running their laptop via remote etc and I think they mentioned that they contacted CL and they said no problem. I would suggest that if you do then you make sure you have written confirmation first (otherwise how do you prove it?) A company I worked for was hit with a very large bill for their missuse of software (not poser). You have to prove that you are not using the same software or that there is no posibility of you using the software at the same time. I take a laptop to work with me I could load poser on it and work in my breaks. I have it installed on my pc at home and work on it in my spare time. There is still the possibility that I could use both machines at the same time when I am at home. There is no proof that you did or did not use the software on both machines at the same time and that is were it gets tricky.