We need one! The Poser gallery we have now is stuffed with least 65% Mixed Medium. I do not mind the Post work, but it would be nice to see what can be done with P5 with "No Post or Very Little Post work. Anyone else agree?

While I see your point, I think that it would end as "just another Poser gallery" unless you state that it should be a PoserPure gallery. And that is so hard, in theory it is fine but as soon as you put a signature on your picture it is in effect postworked. I KNOW that's not what you meant but "very little"... How much (or how little) is that? It's like you can't be a little bit pregnant :o) Either you are or you aren't. And either a picture is postworked or it isn't. That said, I would welcome a Pure Poser gallery. I agree that the general Poser gallery is too much Mixed Medium. But people (including myself) post there becourse that's where the viewers are. Once I posted the same picture to Mixed Medium AND Poser at the same time. One got a fair amount of hits, the other virtually none. And I didn't just use the same thumbnail. Oh and the Mixed Medium one was a tad more postworked, but basically it was the same picture.

errrr.... a young ernyoka1 arrives home... walks into living room... "Hi Mom.. Hi Dad... sumfink to tell you... nothing to worry about, but.. I'm a 'little bit' pregnant..!" LMAO ziggie

jeez you kept that quiet ernyoka, congratualtions ;)

Not to be mean, but this is actually ridiculous...poser is very limited in what it can do, poser lights suck, so if you have to go to photoshop or wherever to get your desired result, that means you can't post it in the poser gallery? that will never work. Now a p5 gallery is a nice idea, but not with restrictions. An artist i watch on pbs once said.. "A good artist will use any tools available to them to get the image that is in their head onto the canvas"

No poser isn't as limited as you might think. (z-toon) people have been getting amazing results out of poser without any postwork at all, it just takes time & patience. I think a pure poser/poser5 gallery is a good idea in principal but then you could end up spending as much time deciding where to post as making the picture in the first place.

A Poser 5 gallery is not ridicules, If you want use P5 and share your work and your tips and tricks ... whats wrong with that? There is nothing wrong with using all the tools you have to get the results your looking for... but the Poser gallery moves so fast that a post can get buried in 24 hrs. The idea would be to show Poser 5 work.

Please read my post again, I agreed with the p5 gallery, just not the postwork part.

I'd almost rather have a new genre or two in the current Poser gallery, one for Firefly, no postwork, one for P4 type with no postwork. Either that or a postwork/no postwork flag when uploading to identify it easily. I'd also like to see a flag on Poser uploads that says what release the render was done with. Sort of like: Poser 3 Poser 4 Poser 5 Postwork Yes/No With a search capability on both flags. That solves everyones desires, I think. Harder to program though...

...or instead of Poser version, a Firefly yes or no....

What in the world is wrong with postwork??!!! I've heard this time and time again from purists in another programs community (I won't name names), that if one really knows how to use the program then they don't need to do postwork. Bah! Postwork is what makes the image really yours and not just another angle, pose, vicky in a temple. Not that I'm banging Vicky in a temple, but if you do postwork to say the hair or clothes, then you'll never see another Vicky with that same hair and clothes, right? And lets not forget that Poser and Vue and Bryce aren't 3D Studio Max and Lightwave and Maya. There's limits - limits that can be corrected with postwork. Which to me essentially means, one IS getting the best out of the program when one can come up with results like SkoolDaze or Rhiannon or voodoo, Ecstacy or any of the other postwork greats around here. Silly me, I actually look for good postwork when I browse the galleries ;o). Laurie

well I like the p5 gallery idea, I wouldn't limit it to no postwork, but it would be good to be able to look at what people are doing with P5.

Oh, and theoretically, you could slap your signature on the pic as a texture on a transmapped plane or something, and thus avoiding even minimal postwork... Poser purism, hmmm...who would've thought... But I must agree with Trekkie: It's either "postwork allowed" or "no postwork allowed". It would be very difficult to determine where to draw the line as to what is accepted postwork and what isn't... Oh, and Trekkie is quite right, it is impossible to be just a little bit pregnant... :) -Hanz

I've been pregnant. And not just a little bit!...LOL ;o) Laurie

LaurieA said: "Not that I'm banging Vicky in a temple" Then who WAS that masked woman?? heheheheheheh

No one said that postwork is not good. The idea would be to focus on What Poser 5 can do... not how good your postwork is. Poser 5 is NOT Poser4. Think of it like this, If made a model in Rhino or LW took it into Photo shop added a background tricked the lighting, then tubed in some flower and grass in Pro, would you want to post in the Rino or Lightwave gallery? it is impossible to be just a little bit pregnant... but you can take a fertilzed egg implant into a host,let them carry it, give birth, and hell even let them raise it, and the end results is the same ... just you did not have alot to do with the end results. ;)

Just as a viewer, I really like the no postwork gallery idea - for any version. I've seen some very fine images done that weren't Photoshopped. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's fun to see what can be accomplished with Poser alone. Certainly, it puts more emphasis on things like posing, when you can't smudge out the crinkled knees and elbows. It's just something different, kind of Poser Unplugged. If not a gallery, then the image tags would be nice and allow for some of the other variants people mentioned.

"LaurieA said: "Not that I'm banging Vicky in a temple" Then who WAS that masked woman?? heheheheheheh" LOL! I definitely have a flair for saying the wrong thing ;o). Laurie

HaHaHa! Who wouldn't bang Vicky in a temple?! Giggle Now, that was a funny slip o' the toungue, LaurieA! :) -Hanz

Not P5, Firefly. There IS the P4 renderer in P5 and some of us use it when we dare open P5. I hate Firefly. Most images need at least equalizing. You're only hurting yourself if you don't. And I really don't think Laurie is the type to bang Vicky in a temple or elsewhere. LOL

"Who wouldn't bang Vicky in a temple?!" Are we taking numbers here?

Hi all,

I have been reading some of the posts here and I think that one thing is missing. Poser, either postworked or not, in any version, is simply about expressing an idea in an artistic fashion. Simply put it's about ART. I certainly understand and can agree with the idea of purity in using a particular tool but ART is about expression and the soul. If postwork helps the artist achieve that then so be it. I think LaurieA hit it on the head. It is about uniqueness and individuality in the expression or creation process. Poser 5 is a great tool but still has it's limitations. Did Michelangelo use only one type of brush when he painted the Sistene Chapel?

Quattro, no one is saying that firefly renders intrinsicly make better art. it's more about what can be acheeved with this new tool and i certainly understand the no postworkers side of the argument. they are not saying the artwork would be better without poswork but that it could be cool to see what can be done completely within the renderer. this argument has been going on forever and it always seems that people take the no postwork idea the wrong way. whats being talked about here is not the artistic merrits of the work but the pure craft of creating an image compleately with a single tool.

wdupre, I can appreciate that point of view. Basically it's about pussing the software to it's limits.

oops ...pushing the software....lol I said pussing!

It's kind of like watching one of Ray Harryhausen dinosaur or Sinbad films with all the animation done usinf stop motion. Sometines with the luxury of modern digital fx, we forget how much can be achieved using something much simpler techniques.

You all can't get your mind out of the temple, can you? I think it's fine to have a challenge or the like that is a no postwork for Firefly Poser 5 kind of thing. But it doesn't seem necessary to dedicate a gallery to restrictions that would largely be ignored. Afterall, the Poser gallery now says: "This gallery is primarily for images rendered within Poser itself. Images of Poser figures rendered in other applications are still welcome, but what's the challenge in that? See how well you can do using it's basic rendering tools!" and that is ignored. Why would yet another gallery be any different? You can't force people to post without postwork if that's what they want to do. It's just going to be something else to complain about.

Wait...we left the temple??? walks away, scratching her head, wondering when we can go back LoL

...all due respect to LaurieA, there's nothing wrong with Postwork... I think wdupre hit the nail on the head - in that the argument is often interpreted wrong. When you look in the Maya, 3ds Max, Cinema and even Bryce and Vue galleries, what you often see are renders sans any postwork. The (valued) 'idea' is to show what you can do using just the software. We are too mired in the past to change things now (everyone posts mixed-media images in the Poser gallery), but ideally, I'd prefer it if they were not postworked (I can and would always go to the Mixed Media gallery to see and post those). I still enjoy postworked images and fully appreciate the time, effort and talent put into them, but here's something else to think about... The above image (aside from my signature) is a straight Poser 4 render. I'm pretty happy with it. I've spent weeks and months working on the textures, modeling the clothes, creating cutom morphs, etc. - not just for this image, mind you - but I did spend hours setting up this image alone - and that was even starting with an existing pose that I happened to have purchased in this case. Would this image ever make it into the Hot 20? no way (even assuming it was good enough). Why? Because there's no 'percieved' effort put in to it. Instead of spending a lot of my time doing postwork, I chose to spend my time setting it up... - getting the lighting just right - moving her arm to cover what would be an obvious joint flaw in the thigh/hip - getting just the expression I was looking for - tilting her head 'just so' for the desired 'mood' and so that the lights worked well with her eyes - adjusting the expression 'just so', again for the mood I wanted - setting the highlight values 'just so' for the effect I wanted on the lips - morphing/positioning the hair around, tweeking the earing so it dangled correctly - fixing and adjusting the necklace so that it looked decent - adjusting the belly chain so it hung correctly - and finally (excluding anything I've forgotten), adjusting the camera settings including focal length for the desired effect. ...but, since most of the above steps could have been postwork-fixed in PS, when people see the words 'no postwork' they assume 'no effort' and move on (admittedly, I did get some nice comments on this image in my gallery, but I doubt any of them even considered clicking on the 'vote' button). It IS hard to get good images out of Poser (at least, it takes time and effort), but what would make people even try, if postwork is the only thing 'valued' by the 'Poser' community? Is it less art-worthy because I didn't touch it up or paint the hair in PS? I don't know the answer, but I'd love to see some means of distinction between the pure Poser renders and the Mixed Medium renders. I love both - I appreciate both. I learn more about Poser techniques from pure renders, I learn more about postwork techniques from Mixed Medium ones. That's just my .02 ;) Cheers, - Keith

Ooops. I see I listed her expression more than once.. I guess that's fair though, as I actually re-adjusted it several times ;). (where was that line forming, anyway?)

Oh, and just to clarify... while I am pretty happy with that image, I didn't mean to single myself out, I was just using it as an example. There are some great 'Poser' artists here - I just wish it was easier (or more obvious) to find thier work.

Nah, too confusing. I use P5 but hardly EVER the FireFly... Wouldn't my render be P4, technically?

Keith..that is amazing, really beautiful work! The term 'postwork' covers a lot of ground. A lot of it obvious (especially pictures from those who are learning to paint hair and draping clothes), but a lot of it not. Even a Firefly render won't help with a bit of pokethrough that otherwise could only be handled by making a transmap for the body (when all else has failed). Why go through that when a couple of brush strokes will take care of it. But then one couldn't say 'No postwork'. It gets kind of silly. I certainly don't mind postworked images in the Poser gallery. As long as it was rendered in Poser and not Bryce or Max it belongs there IMNSHO. If you have NO postwork then state it in the description. I see no need for a separate no postwork gallery for anything. Nor one for Firefly.

Er.. just to clarify... I am NOT a least bit pregnant LOL And I have NO plans of being so either gulp Got 2 brats, that's MORE than enuff LOL

lol as soon as I hit the post button & reread the comments before mine I knew I was being silly, anyway we all know you're far too busy with poser to even think about things like that ;)

Heheh yeah. Thank God the kids also like Poser. Right now the little one (age 7) is playing with the Cartoon people :o) and her big sister (age 12) just bought a book with "The art of Carlos Cartagena & Sean Gallimore" So... they've got the right upbringing... Amazing book btw. Looks just like Poser, but it IS paintings.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=356501

I'm not really a fan of postwork, but then I'm not very good at it, and prefer to do all I can prior to render. If absolutely necessary, I will attempt it :) I tend to put my pictures in the gallery of the program they were rendered in. And now a link to a completely pure, straight from Poser5 to my gallery picture. Enjoy! :)

Spit, thanks.. and good points. While I would like to see a gallery (or even a category) set up for pure render+signature/logo, my primary gripe otherwise is not so much with smudging a few stray pixels in a joint, or a color/contrast correction, but if you look at the Hot 20 (for example), there's some great stuff there, but it (almost always) shows more what people are doing in PhotoShop than what they've achieved in Poser. Again, I LOVE postworked images. I appreciate the talent it takes to make a good piece of art in PhotoShop. I just personally believe it should be in a separate gallery, so I don't need to wade through it when I'm looking for Poser work. Just to get back to the original question in this thread, I'm against making a version-specific gallery (that'd be no different then asking for separate galleries for Cinema 4D v7.3 and v8.1, in my mind). I just wish that the Poser gallery itself had more Poser and less PhotoShop, Bryce, Vue, etc in it. Anyway, I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here... as I mentioned, it would likely be too hard to change that now (people already ignore the suggestion at the top of that gallery). But it would be nice to add a 'Poser Only' or 'Pure Poser' type category to make it easier to sort by.

BTW, just an FYI.. currently, I can do a 'search' on 'no postwork', but that includes images from ALL galleries. There's no way for me to narrow it down to Poser images (or Bryce, for that matter).

Attached Link: "Robots"

One of my latest pics are done in Poser 5 with no postwork other than my sig. It's at the link above :o)

Wow, Spanki, fantastic image! I agree with your view completely. Both approaches have their own challenges. You can either paint over Poser's defects or work around them. Some people are better at one than the other and some prefer one over the other. I'm sure some people can't wait to get out of Poser so they can work their bitmap magic on a render. Others are just as happy spending that time with magnets and morphs to get the result they want. Different strokes.

For what it's worth, here's a pure Poser 5 render that I did for Banished, my collab with voodoo (Will Kramer). Of course, we then painted over it like mad, but you can still see many elements from the original render in the final piece. Most of the lighting was preserved, for instance.

I think it would be easier to create a Pure Poser gallery rather than try to force all the postworkers out of the Poser gallery. I have seen some wonderful pure Poser renders, but I can't stop myself from wanting to fix Poser models in post. Even the best renders usually have a nasty broken joint or something, and even my favorite hair models don't usually look natural in anything other than a standing pose. And it's easier to paint hair in the wind than it is to apply a wind deformer to strand based P5 hair.

Maybe, instead, there should be a pure render gallery in general.. I do see a lot of post in the Vue and Bryce galleries, for instance, with similar complaints about postwork in the related forums.

Thanks for posting that, Kiera - I would have otherwise assumed that most of that shininess came from postwork. That's an excellent base-render.

You are quite welcome. I am in the in-between camp. I want the best possible render I can get before I start painting over something. Some people just load a super basic light set, pose, render, then paint over the entire thing. Others might do a top-notch render and fix a joint or two. I think there's room for all of us. =)