so there..;) already seen a conversion utility out there that does something like this..put up quite recently. I bow to your superior wisdom..but do appreciate the tips..can't believe I got front row center..;)

Dr Geep! Geniuses will always be misunderstood... :-) Well, i for one adhere to your system. Never give up, never surrender... Marco

I know hate myself asking this; So how tall is Dork and crew? Using 1 + 96, I say... Posette is 5'-8" Vicky is 5'-11" Dork is 6'-0" and Mike is 6'-1 Geep, what do you say their heights are?

Galaxy Quest, eh, OpticalSingenoid?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=1365626

Yes, Dave! My brain is clobbered with such silly lines. :-) "...We will not go quietly into the night..." Ah! Now, those figure heights make more sense. My commercial involves architectural & mechanical stuff. That means exact scaling across the board... Now, when i get into Poser world, i'm less inclined to measure things, cuase it's "Play time" for me then. But, it's great to have some reference point nonetheless. :-) Marco[The man with half a brain]

Bill, It as nothing to do with pride! No one is forcing you to adopt Geep's system. He's only offering us an other option. It's always great to have options. I believe it's called "Freedom"... Marco

Dr. Geep has said this is his opinion....I don't know why it has to be a matter of absolutes when we are dealing with a relative universe. Does it matter for the most part as long as one uses a scale consistently? Personally, I'm finding that, in regards to scale, as soon as the fray starts, the logic unravels in these threads.

Pardon me for pointing this out, but there's nothing in the images to suggest that the Doctor is accepting that the "official" standard in Poser 3, 4 and 5 is 8 feet (96 inches) per unit, or any acknowlegement that his own system is at odds with the official standard, or for that matter that that the 8.6 foot system was based on an error that was acknowleged and (partially) corrected to the 8 foot system in SR1. You are free to adopt whatever standard you wish but Dr Geep is clearly and implying that the official scales have changed and this is a deliberate falshood. IMO this is purely about saving face and refusing to admit that he was initially incorrect in his assertion that the 100 inch scale was "official". His purpose in this tutorial is to confuse his readers, and as such he is doing a disservice to the Poser community. Bill

dialyn * I don't know why it has to be a matter of absolutes when we are dealing with a relative universe * You are, of course absolutely right, however, you are also missing the purpose and usefulness of establishing standards. People are of course free to use Dr Geeps confusing plehtora of multiple standards, or even make there own up if they wish, but, of course the whole point of an agreed standard is so that people who adhere to that standard can share data and rely on it being compatible. The more "standards" Dr Geep conjurs out of thin air and throws into the ring, the less cross compatibility there will be, until eventually the whole point of a "standard" will become worthless. Bill

Hey Bill, NOTICE - I do hereby declare that Poser's official scales have never changed. (signed) - dr geep - ;=] To the best of my knowledge it has always been: 1.000 PNU = 1.000 .obj Unit (and still is - I just checked it today) BTW - Do you know ronstuff? cheers, dr geep ;=]

I'm so glad that's settled.

To whom it may concern: Just thought I'd mention that; I have never changed my "scale" in Poser. Curious Labs has changed theirs (at least once) in Poser5. cheers, dr geep ;=]

BTW - Do you know ronstuff? Laughing my butt off now! I look at my 'class mates' and they don't look confused at all. in fact, they all look like they're interested AND entertained by the good doctor. Just let us all have our fun okay? If we're off by an inch or a mile, it's our problem. We promise not to flood you with freebies from our studies. Whoever forced you to read geeps primers is a really bad person.

Check Post 22 in the other thread (above) and you will see my explanation as to why the initial P5 scale was an error, not an alternative and the invalid assumption on the part of a developer that caused it. Bill

I do have to say that Bill is right about the bug. I also remember a post in the now defunct P5 Beta forum that the incorrect conversion code was used. And, even though the standard has existed, not everyone follows it. I remember something about Blackhearted's Angelina character to be specifically scaled to be 5'2", but when I measure her in P5, she is closer to 5'7". I also remember something about Jim B. (please jump in Jim if you are reading, 'cause the cranial clutch is slipping) and his way of measuring to differing slightly from the P5 standards. It all comes down to choice. You are the only person that can choose what standard you follow. I choose to follow the 1 PNU = 96 in standard, because P5 does the measuring for me. Hence, in my world, V3 is around 5'11" tall. I do agree with Bill that an adopted standard would be great for business, but I don't see it happening..... Cheers!

I haven't laughed that hard in a long time(my belly hurts). Maybe we should divide 'sity in 2? One for each scale conversion... There is nothing wrong with arguing or debating such things. It's actually healthy. Maybe we need to remind ourselves that this is foremost a place for artists to share creations, ideas & POVs... At the end of the day, It's all just polygons, pixels... If we were to put as much passion in our lifes as in this debate... :-) Dolce Sogno Marco

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Thanks for the input but ...

... Been there, done that. ;=]

When I found out that CL was going to use 8.6, I requested that they use 8.333... for obvious reasons.

They responded by changing it to 8.0 - end of story.

(data)

8.6 <------- Cl's choice for the initial value

8.333... <-- Dr Geep's "standard"

8.0 <------- CL's choice for the update

(me thinks that they went too far ...)
(but that's just my personal opinion)
(I could be wrong, no?) ;=]

Thanks anyway.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

You know Dr Geep, you got me thinking, in the 100 scale you have stated that Posette is 5-11. In the 96 scale Vicky is 5-11. If you scale Vickys body to 96%, Vicky and Posette are the same size. Makes me wonder if DAZ wasnt originally thinking the same thing you are.

One never knows. ;=]

"Dr. Geep grabbed the wrong girl out of the library" I did that once, and boy was my face red! :) Regards- Lemurtek

It looks like someone else needs to adjust their Lithium dosage, and it STILL ain't geep.

Thanks wyr. ;=]

Maybe a little cream cheese on the scale will make it easier to swallow?! ;^P

Doubt it ... not for some. ;=]

• There is nothing wrong with arguing or debating such things. It's actually healthy. Maybe we need to remind ourselves that this is foremost a place for artists to share creations, ideas & POVs...* So exactly what is this point of Dr Geep flooding the Forums on a daily basis with threads promoting his alternate standards? * When I found out that CL was going to use 8.6, I requested that they use 8.333... for obvious reasons.* Now it occurs to me that that can only be a bare faced lie, since all of this controversy arose since you initially believed that the 100 inch scale was the official standard, and were subsequtenly unwilling to acknowledge that you were wrong. CL never changed the standard, It has always (at least since P3) been 96 inches equals one Poser unit. The correction was to the conversion factor that would allow these units to be accurately represented in P5. Bill

...

...

I give up... Finally we have someone who is willing to teach us non-modelers how to make props in Poser 4. If it wasn't for Geep we all wouldn't have learned to create brick patios (with planters), sliding glass doors, master posers Group tool, and so much more... He's lifting us up - why do you need to put him down? WE WANT HIM HERE - FLOODING THE FORUM WITH INFORMATION! SHEEESH!!!

Hey BG,

Shouldn't that be SHEEESH-ka-bob?
loud guffaws heard in the background

;=]

"Feed me, Simore" Yes, Please Dr. Geep! We are hungry! You just keep feeding us with your wisdom & insights! I have a feeling that your "Fan Club" is bigger then you might imagine... Guffaws? Does not cumpute... Williamsheil, i do understand your POV. Why do you feel the need to repeat the same line over & over... BTW, i don't mind you taking my own words & using them to your advantage. :-) Me thinks, this choice should be left to each person. I love having choices! "Sir, do you want Maple & Nuts or Chocolate ice cream?" Ah! What the heck! Mix them together... Instead of advicating, why not instead use your energies to work on a way to help others understand the pros & cons of each system. And let the chips fall where they may... But, i'm just an old fart, what do i know? Be well! Marco

someone (pakled) mentioned a conversion utility up near the top of this thread, what is it & where can I get my hands on it? OH yes, please do continue to flood the forum with information Doc.

OK, challenge accepted, I'll take your words and use them against you... * Instead of advicating, why not instead use your energies to work on a way to help others understand the pros & cons of each system * ... which, of course displays a total ignorance of the topic. The point (now listen carefully) is regardless of any inherent advantages or disadvantages of any system, the existance of multiple competing standards ultimately defeats the purpose of establishing standards in the first place. Now since we have an established system (96 inches equals one Poser unit), adhered to and never varied by MetaCreations and CL as well as the majority of content creators and prop makers over the past few years, why not use it? Why adopt any new system which has no obvious advantages, and will always be at odds with this standard? That is, after all, the sole purpose of standards. And pardon me for pointing this out, but wouldn't sticking to the accepted standard be a hell of a lot simpler, than adopting multiple standards (all of which have been based on errors and false assumptions) for multiple Poser versions with the implicit requirement to rescale everything inherited or imported from any other version or craeted by any other standard? Try creating a 6 inch cube brick in P4 using Dr Geeps system. The sides of the brick would be 0.06 Poser Units. Export the brick and go to Poser 5. There create a six inch brick using Dr Geeps interpretation of P5 scaling. The sides of the brick will, of course be 0.058125 Poser units. Import the P4 brick. Look at them. They aren't the same even though they have both been modelled accurately to six inches, and that's because, no, Poser scale hasn't changed between P4 and P5. Try to build a wall. OK you can now try to excuse this, as Dr Geep has done in the past, by falling back on the the argument that the Poser universe is wholly mutable, that Poser units don't "really" mean anything and that you can simply rescale the imported brick to get the "correct or compatible value". So what (I ask) was the purpose of defining units in the first place? The purpose was, ostensibly, to allow Prop and content makers to have a measure by which they could do their work and be sure that it would be compatible with the work of others and the expectations of the users. But as soon as you start adding the coda that your works need to be arbitrarily rescaled under a plethora of circumstances and standard regimes, the whole point of the exercise has gone out of the window. * Finally we have someone who is willing to teach us non-modelers how to make props in Poser 4. If it wasn't for Geep we all wouldn't have learned to create brick patios (with planters), sliding glass doors, master posers Group tool, and so much more... He's lifting us up - why do you need to put him down? WE WANT HIM HERE - FLOODING THE FORUM WITH INFORMATION! * Acknowledeged, the Doctor has done great work in the past, but sadly in this case, and for his own sad motives, Dr Geep now seems to be bent on flooding the Forum with MISINFORMATION. But lets make a challenge in return and see if you have been paying attention: BillyGoat and OpticalSingenoid, you seem to be prepared to defend the Doctor, even in the knowledge that he has directly lied to you and everyone else at least once in this thread. Why? Please give us an explaination as to exactly what benefit in either understanding or prop making skills you have in fact gained from the Doctors scaling posts at the start of this thread. Time to put your mouths where your money is. I am eagerly awaiting the fruits of your enlightenment. Bill

I guess maybe, Bill, if you were contributed tutorials instead of diatribes, it would be a different story. I think a lot of us are willing to say that a difference of opinion is honorable and we are less interested in choosing sides than in learning something new, and, frankly, the scale doesn't matter in most of Dr. Geep's tutorials. He is giving of his time with a generous spirit. Maybe he is wrong. Maybe he's not. How does much does it matter to me? Not much...because what he is teaching me is more valuable to me than someone insisting they are right and going on and on and on and on about their righteousness. Fine. You're right. You win. Here's a donut. Now let me go back to Dr. Geep's tutorial where I can have some fun and learn something useful too.

Thanks di.

Hey Bill,

re: " ... the existance of multiple competing standards ..."

Ever hear of Metric?

;=]

Uh. Dr. Geep, Just an FYI.... There is only ONE standard in the scientific community -- the Metric system. Even scientists in the UK and US use it. I don't see any agreement to be reached on this, so to paraphrase Dr. Covey Can both of you agree to disagree agreeably? :-) Cheers!

milamber42,

Thank you for your insight.

Your point is a good one and I agree completely.

The scientific community is only part of our world and hopefully has intercourse in a reasonable manner with the other factions in the world even though the metric system may not be embraced or used by those who are not scientists.

re: "Can both of you agree to disagree agreeably? :-) "

That's ok with me. ;=]

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

"...you seem to be prepared to defend the Doctor, even in the knowledge that he has directly lied to you and everyone else..." Yes, Geep, where are the damned weapons?

"...you seem to be prepared to defend the Doctor, even in the knowledge that he has directly lied to you and everyone else..." Yes, Geep, where are the damned weapons?

Sure. Shooting at armed men is danferous - what if you miss? For the recor dI think Geepy does some great tutorials, but I've always followed the scaling as documented in the Poser 4 manual :) Cheers, Cliff

who3d, Are you talking about the information on page 167? Ian :)

Doc, Thanks, ting - You have mail ;-) Ian