I read some of his posts and I agree with Momcat : 1- When he criticizes art, his critiques are not uninteresting and do offer some propositions for improvement 2- A good thing he could do would be to offer positive criticism : telling what was good is as important as pointing out the faults 3- When he criticizes other things than pure art, his opinions are more debatable 4- The initial attitude was a bit blunt and could use some softening. End of my critiques on his critiques. (PS : Momcat : fun site indeed ! Meow !)

LadySilverMage - I wasn't really meaning to criticise you personally for only wanting positive comments, though it probably reads like that. I do get the impression that there are certainly some who don't regard any comments other than fulsome praise as acceptable, which is why I generally comment very infrequently (not just here, at other sites also). So pitching in to your picture above was an example of the Gilbert & Sullivan song: "This is what I never do - this! and this! and this! and this!" I think it's not so much the vertical lines, which do have the diagonal of the cloth as contrast, as you say, not to mention the strong horizontals at the bottom of the picture. I think the remark about the dead centre figure is more apposite, though heaven knows that's not normally a problem. Maybe it's the centred figure combined with the pillars at the extreme edges and the unrelieved black in between that makes me uneasy. I dunno - I'm not a critic! :)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=468029

Personally, I think critiques should be purely technical..ie. camera position/lighting/perspective, things of that nature. Whether anyone likes the "idea" behind the pic, quite frankly I don't care. It's your idea & as everyone has stated art is all suject to the creators imagination. Technical issues is where I need a lot of help. As an artists friend of mine said...most supposed critics usually try to turn your intial image into something they envision as what the piece/story should tell. Just my 2cents.

I don't comment too often on artwork here. I do it sometimes when it's posted in the forum and requested (and if the person is newbie enough that I think my small offering can help). But I've long since stopped commenting in the galleries because it seems to have become a place where one posts something to get accolades (only). From my point of view, similar to dialyn's, a critic can look at art from the technical point of view (I mean things like balance, composition, whatever that is called that refers to dividing the "canvas" into thirds, some other geometrical devices for composition, etc.). It works the same no matter how the piece was "drawn". So, comments based on the time-proven theories are, well, more "factual" in basis. On the other hand, as mentioned above, I think any critic can make remarks about their interpretation of a piece. If couched in the terms of, "Have you thought about this?" or "To me, it seems like it needs..." or "Personally, I don't like the trees in this piece.". I don't see anything wrong with a person expressing some personal ideas about what they think might improve a piece. I like to hear them because it might be something I never considered adding or removing. A fresh viewpoint. So, I don't get bothered or insulted by those kinds of suggestions. And if one is given to one of you and it is completely NOT what you were trying to do with your piece, just ignore it.

And if one is given to one of you and it is completely NOT what you were trying to do with your piece, just ignore it.... Chuck that is probably the single best piece of advice to give here. :-) While in my case I did not agree with some of the comments made, I did not get frazzled by them either. Just kind of took it with a grain of salt and moved on :-) Keep rockin' /gz

LOL Not one comment...hmmmm. Yer welcome to drop on by. Spit's the name and I'm a Poserholic!

Well I've spoken to your lovely moderator Lyrra ...quite the outspoken lady. She has requested that I stick to invited critiques for the moment and 'watch my manners'. So I shall endeavor to be a wee bit more softly spoken ... although it is not something I am especially good at. By and large when I view an image, I approach it like any image in any medium. I am not looking at technical capability, but artistic capability. The images (Egypt and Persephone) I mentioned the disparity beteen title and content only because of the title. If they had been named differently I most likely would not have mentioned it. The title is part of the image .. pure and simple. So I shall start at my list of volunteers, and you may see what I have to say. If you wish your work critiqued, by all means contact me. But if your are afraid of a little nip from an old Shark? Then you may stay safely away from me. After all ..you are the ones who smelled blood in the water. TigerShark

Yes, this is Lyrra's forum! (LOL...just kidding. But she does give leeway when it's due and gets firm when things have gone too far. When things get to that state, she doesn't tiptoe) Welcome to what I hope is a fresh start, TS.

Maybe im nubie in 3d or graphic area , but ive been 15 years in music , and i think music and graphics have lot similiarity . Critic still need for people who start learning or maybe for expert , but u cant make everyone have same visions with you about how to make this ..this.. and this.. told someone bout lack of light.. color .. compositions.. same with told rock musicians how to play guitar with softly . Im not said rock guitarist wrong with softly kind , but thats not they to go for and maybe want... Everyone have style and heart and u never know what their visions bout art , no matter thats music , graphic or anything

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=Caly

"I had mistakenly thought this to be a site for serious artists to communicate and improve their works" Actually it is a site for hobby artists, as well as serious artist. "By and large when I view an image, I approach it like any image in any medium. I am not looking at technical capability, but artistic capability." Artistic capability? You mention that you cannot do art so how can you really honestly judge this? Art as you should know is in the eye of the beholder. I do what pleases me and luckily it works for my clients as well. " But if your are afraid of a little nip from an old Shark? Then you may stay safely away from me. After all ..you are the ones who smelled blood in the water." Nahh we smelled something else in the water.. not sure what tho. I am not afraid of your critiques.. Don't have to be. My buisness is fine and your critiques of my work would not bother me in anyway shape or form nor would it make me change anything. SOooo i give you permission to go ahead and critique my gallery. Take yer best shot.. Won't hurt me in the least :)

BUT, Stormy, what IF he mentions something you had not thought of? I understand that EVERYONE here has a vision in their mind about what they want to create. Maybe it's like a virgin that isn't allowed to be touched. (what do I know, right?) BUT, what if he suggests to add this or that or that a particular item looks out of place...or needs a different color? Or that it's out of balance? Or might be better by adding (fill in the blank)? What's wrong with that? Even if you are selling your art so much that you can't keep up with the demand...what's wrong with listening to an opinion? If you disagree with the comments, continue as you were. Simple. I guess my remarks are partly due to the fact that I'm not very good. So, I relish the opportunity for anyone to make a comment. Perhaps if I was a great artist like some others are, I would grow an ego that would shut off any outside suggestions. I kind of doubt it but perhaps that is what has happened to so many other successful artists here...their head has grown so big that there is no room left for a differing opinion. Not ranting at you, Stormy, just using your comment as an excuse to try and make my point. After all, you DID invite his critique.

gaaaaaaaaah, maybe this post it'll get it stop sending a 1,000 email notifications there's been a reply

From the Artist page of TigerShark..."I have volunteered my service as a critic here, since there seems to be a need." I don't recall anyone saying we needed a critic here.

Perhaps no one DID request a critic. But, considering the number of people in the thread who have "granted permission" for his perusal, I'm not sure everyone hates the thought of a critic.

Actually I've read that some people get tired of all the "you're great, you're wonderful, you're perfect" postings and would like a more honest reaction from viewers. Yet when someone gives what is presumably an honest reaction, that isn't a complete rave review of a graphic, then we immediately say he or she is a troll, and get defensive that they just don't understand your aristic and perfect vision. Maybe that's because your artistic vision wasn't communicated very well. Maybe that's because, gee whiz, not everyone has the same tastes and what you think is the greatest art on earth is just the same old nudie to someone else. The fact is that the galleries will never be more than amateur time (and I don't care if you are selling professionally or not...a lot of bad and mediocre writers get paid for their work and a lot of bad and mediocre artists manage to do the same) until you can weigh a criticism and perhaps admit to yourself that there is area for improvement. And we can all improve because no one here is perfect no matter what our delusions are. Some, like me, have greater opportunities to improve than others, but there is no one, and I do mean no one, here than couldn't learn something new. Fortunately the gift of my low status as an artist is that I have the delights of much to learn. I feel sorry for those of you who think you can ever stop learning and still be considered an artist. Art is all about growth and change. When you stagnate, your art dies. And sometimes a critic can open your eyes to what you didn't see before...I agree with Chuck there (and with a lot more that he said but he already said so I'm not repeating it). Now maybe I can get off this thread. I can't seem to stop getting the stupid ebot notifications either. Trying again.

as i am a total beginenr in most/every different fields/disciplin sand skills involved into 3d art and poser render, and i only began to even touch a paint software in early may of this year 2003, i kno wi cannot in such a short time reach the level of many good people on renderosity, most of them who impress my being in fact professionnal with years of experience... i am a hobbyist, i do what i do for educationnal purpose, enjoyement and that's all... i dont think a mere entertainement/hobby really NEEDS profesionnal criticisme as i do not care /plan to sell things or find a job in this area. (but when i see art over from latest iron maiden, album, see thread on this topic, i see i can even hope reahing such a "professionnal" level :p) now for some lesson about social behavior: i do not even try to criticise someone who works in a arean/field i do not master myself, or at least have some infos and documentations, and most of all, something i am not able to even try myself to do :) so leave the unskilled cheesy beginners alone pliz

If you have read all through the thread, Riddokun, you will see your request to leave the "unskilled cheesy beginners" alone has already been adopted. BUT, if he DID drop by and offer some thoughts about your work, wouldn't it have the chance of helping even though you are a hobbyist? After all, whether you are a "pro" or just a person doing it for fun, wouldn't you like to get some pointers to help make you do it better? Just a thought. NOT a rant and not a criticism.

I think the main problem with having your work criticized here, is that this critiques are usually made right in the gallery, right under your beloved pic, so that any passer by will see the picture, then read the critique just after and they will think "this needs a lot of improvement" whereas they would perhaps have thought "wow ! Great !". When I think I can say something to improve on an image, I don't post this advice in the gallery : I give positive advice in the gallery (outlining what I like), and then send a personal IM to the author about what I thought could be improved. I found that it bruised less toes, and no one complained or call me a troll (even people who did not agree with my opinion). Just my 2 eurocents.

well usually i rather learn from people who do make pictures i "envy" the look or technics and that impress me. That is why renderosity is interesting because people take some time to help the others. when i went on galleries of people who left comment of one of my pic, i was ashame cause they left good comment yet their own art was really putting me below the ground :) but when i have time i frankly ask a few advices or things abotu other's work '(as long as i do not ask about a secret :) i sure am longing to advices and positive criticisme, but i sure wouldnt stand the "advices" and criticismes of someone who yet never struggle with Poser limitations. one thing that already pains me enoguh is to see that most japanese website contributors to gallery simply use real renders withotu postwork (it seems to be a rule for them) and i really would like to know the basis and knowledge of poser to make such good "raw renders", aside from even postworking it.

Tigershark: It's probably been said earlier, but I'll say it again: people don't post their images to get "constructive criticism", they post images to get glowing remarks. Look at any image and you'll see comments like "so cute" and "love what you've done with it" and "beautiful". If anyone so much as says, "the pose is un-natural", that person is labeled a troll for their negative comments. Most people seem to have a very thin skin and respond to negative 1 of 2 ways:

• If you don't have a gallery, you are in no position to critique other people's work. Using this logic, you may not critique the movie "X-Men" unless you yourself have made a major multi-million dollar Hollywood movie based on a comic book series. Similarly, you are also not allowed to critique a CD unless you yourself have had a recording career and know how to sing professionally.
• If you do post a negative comment that is really negative, the "artist" may get so upset that she'll post a message about how she's quitting Renderosity and no one will ever see her again. Her friends will then jump in and tell her that her images are very good, to not pay attention to that awful troll, and not to leave.

"If you do post a negative comment that is really negative, the "artist" may get so upset that she'll post a message about how she's quitting Renderosity and no one will ever see her again. Her friends will then jump in and tell her that her images are very good, to not pay attention to that awful troll, and not to leave. " lol Actually I've seen the male members here get aggravated by that and remove their entire galleries :-P~~ (just teasing ya since you used the term "she" and we all know that it applies to both sexes)

"I think the main problem with having your work criticized here, is that this critiques are usually made right in the gallery, right under your beloved pic, so that any passer by will see the picture, then read the critique just after and they will think "this needs a lot of improvement" whereas they would perhaps have thought "wow ! Great !"." WHOA. That is terribly selfish. Criticism benefits not only the maker of the image, but other viewers as well by raising their awareness. Heaven forbid we should have viewers who understand what they're seeing? The better the viewer, the harder we work, the better we do.

About the Egyptian picture.. I made it and let me make some points: 1. The lightning was of a blueish color which made her skin look pale or caucasian. It is bronze. Take a look at Product Showcase and the image I made. 2. From TigerShark: "And a last note on the Egyptian piece - the hieroglyphs on her arm are 1st and 2nd dynasy, predating any graeco/roman contact and therefor highly unlikely for a caucasian Queen. If the title had been 'Goth Princess' I wouldn't have mentioned it. (incidentaly the 'glyphs spell the word 'goat' which I thought quite funny)" Thanks, but the full tattoo wraps around her arm which means "power" on one side and on her other arm, "beauty". I didn't like your critique nor did I like bijouchat's "critique the critic" on my image either. It's just not the place to "argue" or whatever on someone's images. I personally don't like being critiqued by strangers, or at least by you, Tigershark. So.. don't. Am I sensitive? Yes, but who cares, that's my personalilty. If I need a critique, I'll ask my friends here at Renderosity, people who actually have art in their gallery. kk thx la~ And besides, no one said that it was a picture from any type of era, or to be exact in the representation of Egyptian people.. that's probably why I put it in 'fantasy' gallery. hehe

This critic's manerism, typing style, and character seem to remind me of an old member with the initials 'RK'. That is my thought ctitique of the words that I have read and, of course, is my opinion only.

Sorry but i once checked the "notice by email for reply" on this thread, but now i woudl rather stop gettign notices.. how can i do that ?

Uncheck the box for notifications. Further, if that doesn't work, there will only be futre ebots if you continue to visit the thread. If you don't revisit, there will be no more ebots except maybe one.

TMGraphics, if it's the RK I'm thinking of, I disagree. I started to list the differences but suffice it to say, the style isn't the same IMHO. Thie mods would have had to kill this thread by now if that were the case :-) I agree that perhaps critiques should be private (depends on how the recipient feels), but I seriously doubt that any of the personas here would let their opinion of a piece be influenced by someone elses. Of course, I don't know how many people here went to see Gigli. I do love the review by one critic who said that after watching Gigli, he had to cleanse his palate by watching Glitter. Tigershark's bite can't possibly be that bad.

Ouch!

Well, one simple solution, since the gallery seems to have become a place for receiving "pats on the back" instead of a place where people can do what the caption says and provide critiques...just have that remark removed from the "boilerplate" page display and if people want critiquing, they can state so in their posting.

@Imckenzie - You are probably correct about the RK thing. It almost resembles that person though. I think the best critics are the ones that say 1st-something good about the image, 2nd-point out what could use a little more work (from their point of view), and 3rd-finish up with a 'great job so far, keep up the good work' speech! ~my 2 pennies TMG