Just wondering why people jump in and answer posts from people who are obvious warez users? "I don't know anything about Poser, any tutorials?" READ THE MANUAL "How do I get clothes on my Poser figure" PAGE xx OF THE MANUAL TELLS YOU C'mon people use a little common sense!

And I'm sure lots of people have excellent tutorials to offer, but do you really want warez users downloading Poser then sponging off of your hard work (again for free?)

Some people obviously are warez users but there are cases where they wont have manuals such as if they bought it on ebay from some1 or second hand at shop...

Some people don't find the manual very illuminating, so they are asking for tutorials to help them in the areas where the manual skims the surface of information. There are many Poser mysteries to which I have found the answer here and found the manual not at all helpful. And I do have a legitimate copy of Poser 4 and 5, and I do have the manuals that came with each. I don't think much of the idea of being called a warez user just because I need additional help...that's pretty insulting.

A little presumptious aren't you? Just because they ask a question that can be answered in the manual it doesn't mean they stole Poser or any other software. Some people are just to lazy to look, some don't comprehend what they read, some can't find that little nugget of info they need through all the techno-crap. Others just like the speed at which you can get an answer and feeling of being part of something when they ask for help from others. I'm sure anyone could come up with reasons why they ask here rather than read the manual as a newbie. I know I never read my p4 manual and the only part I really read of the P5 was the part about the materials room. As for the pat answer of "read the manual" or "RTFM", it is my personal observation that people who give this sort of response in a helping and learning community are just one step above forum trolls.

Bad day? What exactly is the point of this post? My boyfriend, actually, every guy I have ever know hates reading manuals. I personally only reach for the manual if I can't figure out any way to do it or I have nothing better to do. Many manuals read like college text books. Some people would rather have a layman's answer than read a technical manual.

For questions like, how do I add clothing, or other extremely basic operations, I would suggest referring to a specific page number in the manual. Not only is that the easist way for a person to learn, it also weeds out the warez users. Wouldn't you agree that for easy questions, opening the manual to page 45 is a lot more effecient than someone posting a whole long explanaition or refering to a link of some tutorial? As for people buying Poser on Ebay, shouldn't it come with the manual anyway?

I hate reading manuals too, but I have a dis-taste for warez users waltzing in here thinking they can get answers. (As I thought others felt the same way too, maybe I was wrong)

Actually trying to find the right page in the manual sometimes takes longer than just answering the question. If you have tried to read the Poser manual, you know it is not the easiest document to figure out in all cases. Experts here know short cuts and provide explanations for things that the manual glosses over. And manuals get misplaced. I've been trying to find my manual for one of my software programs for the past three weeks. I can find the box. I can find the disks. I can find everything but the manual. So I'm a bad housekeeper. That doesn't make me a warez user. A little tolerance and understanding goes a long way to getting along in any community.

No, the manual really doesn't help as much as direct answers. I've been doing sound and graphics programming for 20 years, but when I started with Poser, I had to break through a learning threshold before anything in the manual made any sense. So I posted a few stupid questions in R'osity, and the answers pulled me over that threshold. So it's good to discourage really obvious warezers, but I hope we don't get into the habit of refusing all help to beginners.

maybe they just ask because they want to feel like a part of a community rather than wade through umpteen pages of a manual,and maybe they think that one of the many talented people here could have found an easier way of doing what they are asking for help with,assuming that anyone asking a simple question is a warez user is a sure fire way to drive away any newbies who will be too scared to ask a question now in case they are wrongly accused of theft

Hey, I read the manual, and I still had to find out how to properly conform clothing by coming here. There's not much in the manual that talks about using the hierarchy window to prevent poke-through.

It's not unusual for me to hunt for the damn manual for an hour before giving up and asking online. I'm pretty sure that's not unique.

Okay okay, I get the message. Comparing me to one step above a troll was about all I could take. You guys made your point and I concede. No hard feelings and I'm sorry I brought it up.

The manual is typical of something written by people who ALREADY KNOW HOW TO USE THE SOFTWARE. Once you're familiar with Poser's peculiar interface and sometimes bizarre places for hiding options, etc., then the manual starts to make sense. First time I tried to read it, my eyes kinda glazed over because most of it went right over my head. And you know what? I've been using Poser since 1999 and I STILL have questions and I'm STILL learning stuff, and I still ask questions that may seem kinda dumb because no one's born knowing how to use Poser, and the manual happens to be stuffed away in a box somewhere, because I didn't unpack it when I moved, so there you go. Oh, and I've heard that it's possible to get the manual illegally in PDF format, so having the manual or not isn't really an indication as to the legality of one's software. Nor is asking for a tutorial that explains something in an understandable way. Nor is asking dumb questions. I think it's a really dangerous precedent to go around making dumb and uneducated assumptions about who's using an illegal copy and who isn't based on their ability to make sense of the manual. bonni

Thank you bonni, please see my post above yours. Again I apologize.

Actually it is possible to get the manual legally in pdf format without having the software because it is available on the Curious Labs website. At any rate, pzrite, as one person who has successfully inserted my foot in my mouth more than once (and it's not easy given my advanced years), I'd say live and learn and go on to something else. :) TGIF!!! Pay day for me....and I get to hit the stores.

I dont know what you are talking about. Warez are people that steals software. Here is none of them, just remind newbies where there can read. You are paranoic.

Sokay. I must have missed that post, or we cross posted. :-) bonni

Just a comment on the manuals... I did find the tutorials in the Poser 4 manual very helpful. But I gotta say, the Poser 5 ones are confusing. They seem to be shorter, and aimed at people who already know Poser. I found them difficult, even though I had some Poser 4 experience. I have a feeling someone starting with Poser 5 would have a hard time following some of them.

Well I've been using Poser4 for several years, but I find Poser 5 a PIG to use, and the manual is very poor :( I own Bryce 4,5, Poser4&5, Rhino 1&2, UVMapperPro, PaintshopPro7, Flash4, Mojoworld, tons of plugins for PSP/PS; etc etc. But I'd bet that a good percentage of poser users started with an illegal copy to try it out, liked it and bought it. Most software companies know that, examples are MAX3D--thats ludicrously priced out of the hands of potential users, there is a huge amount of illegal copies out there that get folk INTO MAX, without that, MAX would lack many users. It's a problem most software companies know about, when products cost so much you CANOT get people into your products use without illegal copies. Ever wonder why some companies have full working web download versions depsite them being crackable?...So they get USERS. The average Joe doesnt have thousands of dollars to spend on apps, the bloated over pricing of some apps, from Photoshop to MAX, has kicked them in the ass in regards to user base. Stupid gits, if they sold to private users at reasonable prices their market share would increase...old debate but applicable.

I do occasionally refer someone to a manual page - sometimes because I don't have time to get into a long explanation, sometimes because there's a helpful picture(s), once or twice to a probable pirate.

I have Poser and the manual. Believe me, the manual leaves a lot to be desired. I don't know why they didn't cover things a lot more thoroughly, or clearly. Pzrite, read it and maybe you'll understand how it's lacking in a lot of info that's really needed.

I think I was lucky to start with Poser 4, for which the manual was a lot more helpful, IMO, than the P5 one. I've learned far more, and far more easily, from tutorials on here than I did in either of the manuals. My husband tried to use P5 with the help of the manual and he still missed the "Click the double tick to add, don't double click!" Maybe that should be on the cover of the manual, since it must be the most commonly asked question in this forum...

my manual has actually come in really handy......for propping up the corner of my overloaded workbench.....point? The Poser manual is pretty useless for what it was intended....

I once when on a Lightwave chat and asked a question, I was riddled with questions about the legality of my use. What color was my dongle, what was the heading on page 231, etc 7 questions total before I could even ask my question. I felt like I was in a Monty Python skit "what is your favorite color!?". After ALL that, I answered everything correctly (because I'm legal) and nobody could answer my question. All I got was "oh I don't use that, I don't know". When I bought Poser 5 the manual does not cover a lot of functions or just gives a paragraph or even a sentence on a function with no explainations. Very frustrating. Just because someone asks a basic question doesn't mean warez. The basic questions that new people ask can be found in the Poser Forum FAQ which has a lot of general use answers. Generally point people there.

"What color was my dongle..." You sure you were in a Lightwave chat and not... some other kind of chatroom? Hahaha, sorry, that just piqued my infantile sense of humour!

anyway you can download the manual illegally just as easy as the software. so this discussion is really pointless

haha no, I was in the correct place, and I found out that the dongles are colored which I didn't know before hand. I am still very new at poser (least I keep thinking that) and sometimes feel I should start every quesiton with "Hi, I'm stupid where/what/how...." Luckly there are some very cool freindly and patient people here in the Poser Forum or I would still be staring at a Dork with his arms spread (often how I feel haha!)

The poser manual was available for download from Curious Labs the entire time Poser 4 and Pro was there. The manual also came with the demo. So I'd imagine most warez users have the manual...

Curious Labs pulled the manual last time I checked, only people that purchase can get the downloadable PDF or have the CDs because it's on the CD also.

Poser 5 Reference Manual page 66 ADDING CLOTHING 1. ....and add the BIKINI TOP by double-clicking it. .... Anyone here think that will work?

OK, folks, pzrite had a thought, spoke up, and has now backed off and apologised. No need to hammer him into the ground. We can all make mistakes. I can see his point actually. I've thought the same things many times when I see some of the questions. But if we don't know whether the user is legal/illegal, it's better to give the benefit of the doubt and answer the question politely. Actually, when I first started using poser, I didn't know about Rosity, and for at least a year, I struggled on with the manual. Now, I'm a person who usually STARTS with the manual. I know how all my electronic appliances work because I make a point of reading the dratted things. But the Poser manual? Wah!!! It's like a cross between 'Einstein's Thoughts Before Breakfast' and 'The Book of the Dead'. Spare me! No wonder people ask here. mac

I just bought Adobe Premiere Pro (with a manual) and don't know the first thing about using it. I bought it primarily for educational reasons, but I, like many, don't find the included manual of much use if you haven't had either formal instruction or followed a good tutorial. My point is that there are some who have bootleg copies of programs without the manual, but you can't always assume that when someone asks how to do something in the program that they are all criminals with illegal copies.

Hmmm. I allways thought that software manuals were written in a very obscure form of english.... like something out of the 10th century, and then translated into latin, and then back into english.

...don't need no stinking manual anyway....(burp)..

nightfir, don't forget that after they translate it back to english, they use babelfish to translate it into Chinese, then Hebrew, then Spanish, then German, and finally back to english, and then apply Microsoft word's spelling and grammatical checker onto it.

Maybe pzrite had another point in mind too. There is actually a difference between a "roundabout" questions where a helpful person would actually have to do the whole work for someone lazy and asking specific questions, which shows this person isn't lazy and tried to work through the problem himself but got stuck at some point. (phew! What a long sentence!!)

"OK, folks, pzrite had a thought, spoke up, and has now backed off and apologised. No need to hammer him into the ground. We can all make mistakes." Zackly! And it's a very valid POV, too. I have sometimes wondered about some of the posts here, but who am I to judge?

adjusts the warez radar Since I've actually read all the manuals for Poser from 1-5 I can say conclusively that they are less than useful for new users. There are some downright errors and many unclear directions. There is an unfortunate tendancy in most software programs for 'release' manuals to be unclear technobabble. Just once I'd like to see a major software company write a manual in plain english, with separate sections for the technically inclined. And lets not forget that there are many many non-English speaking Poser users and that just makes things that much more fun. Add to that the community's tendancy for renaming, nicknaming and cobbling together weird model combinations? no wonder people get confused ... I get confused and I've been around here forever. After all ... MAT files aren't covered in any of the manuals anywhere ... neither is EasyPose, geometry switching or crosstalk .. all things that we take for granted. As for sorting out the warez users from the legit but clueless? well thats the moderators job and trust me .. we have lots of practise. Lyrra "Digital Beat Cop" Madril

i have had poser for over a year and you know how many times i have looked at the manual 3 time yes i can say 3 times one time when i 1st got it to times coz i droped it and it opened i hate manual and Tutorials if its not for dummies i dont care for it lmao i hate to read a lot of bal bal bal lol just like i did not read most of the many posts here and its not coz i dont care what was sed its coz man this thing is long lol xoxo have fun yall and let Digital Beat Cops get them

dialyn, A year or so back some people posted their working areas and I was shocked to see how messy we all can let out work areas get. I've been there searching for an hour or more for a manual or reference because of my messy work area. I try to clean up more often now at least every other day but I think I'm a lot less productive because of that now too. - TJ

Lyrra, Your post just made me think of one of the most asked questions on this forum - 'Who or what are Posette and Dork and where can I get them?' LOL. Now THAT'S an example of the difference between the manual and reality (our reality, anyway). mac

...our Drafting instructor had caught a student warezing CG items mid-last year (she was expelled, pure and simple.) Among the items her "stash" was not only Poser 5 zipped into one big file, but the manuals were there as well (in .pdf format.) Five seconds and a P2P proggie will confirm this, folks - not only do warezers have access to manuals, but oftentimes legit buyers don't (e-bay buyers ferinstance.) /P

Lyrra, LOL Why did we call him dork anyway? (Nothing wrong with him as far as I can see that a few well placed morph targets, twisting a few dials and props wouldn't cure, like much bigger ears and buck teeth(MTs), sunglasses and a tail(PROPS) for example.) - TJ