Burning pocket books need to know the condition of the much anticipated M3... I've soon a few renders...not many...a few holes in the mesh....but overall, is this guy worth the shillings? His he just a beefed up V3? Her's an interesting view I had on TV today...a gap jeans commercial with a guy that looks pretty much like M3.

Working with M3 is much like working with V3, of course. The detail is there, but contrary to what most seem to expect, he is not perfect. In my opinion, well worth the money. These 3rd generation characters are hard to beat in realism.

With the help of vouchers I got him for about 35 cents :) I think he and the morphs are definitely worth the Platinum club prices....that's for sure. The arm issue has to be fixed, but nothing is ever perfect and DAZ will fix it. The low prices of the model/morphs and ability to use vouchers on this DAZ original has to be a real plus for the merchants creating clothing and accessories for him.

Having messed around with the figure only a little. And only posted one image of the dude I set up I ahve to say he is a pretty cool figure to work with. He seems to work as well a V3 with eariler versions of the mil folk (with a null figure included to fend off cross talk.) He poses as well as the V3 and is cut in much the same way. The only real detractor I see is the addition of another 27 pose folders. Now I'm "Told" I can move them but after the V3 folder mess I am hesitant to move them further from where daz put them. Since I use Poser4 w/ProPack I have a 250 folder limit in any one library (I do have Poser5, however I don't use it for performace problems) So this means a whole flock of pose folders had to be removed from POSE and into OFFLINE in another disk. So Owners that have both 3's have about 50+ pose folders tied up in the fabrication of a new character. Now since I know nothing of that PBboost do-hikey, nor by the understanding I have on how it works do I wish to use it. I could not ay if it might help in be able to use pose folders that have had to be pulled from the working runtime to be helpful (I assume it would, but i don't know) M3's "member" seems very easy to use and is rather real looking. That and it actually conforms to the right place and blends pretty well in it's native habitat. The move of daz to have some of their brokers make stuff before the release seems to have been a good one. He seems to have a fair assortment of fantasy stuff to do stuff. and PWFW (Steve Shanks) has already adjusted a very good amount of M2 clothes to M3. So the support is definatly there. Most of the current hair props with a bit of X and Z tweaking will yield a pretty good looking fit. So I would have to say he is worth having if your budget will allow it

thanks much :) I have $10 in vouchers plus the PC discount..so the starter packs will be about $40..not bad... Now to find that cc

I definately say he's worth it. Having a blast working with him. (And ya, PBoost is pretty handy working with all the inj folders with the two. I keep one level just for injs, and then they are out of my way if I am not creating a character.)

I like him much better than I thought I would. Keep in mind though there are not as many head morphs as there was for V3. There are also a few issues with the mesh, but no doubt that DAZ will fix those soon.

I have been thinking about getting him also. I have seen some great faces, but the neck! I have not seen one post of the neck that did not remind me of Katherine Hepburn... or Jim Carrey doing a Hepburn ... I just don't like the neck and the shoulders, not to wild about the roundness of the Deltoids either. Can the neck be shortned or Y scaled? :(

Here's my 2 cents on M3 so far: 1) Morphs Injection poses aren't as scary as I thought, and ultimately they will be a time saver for Poser users. M3 has better morphs, ethic morphs, more teeth morphs, animal/fantasy morphs, and precision morphs for the face, like 3 philtrum morphs! That makes me a happy camper. 2) Mesh His shape is different, more multi-ethnic and toned then the default M2. Maybe I'll grow on me. I can't say how good M3 poses just yet, but I expect he will do well more polygons in the joint areas. 3) Mats You can tell DAZ has taken many of the good ideas Poser users have come up with over the years and incorporated these ideas into the latest version of Mike. I really like the tonal mats. To me, the base texture map is too cool and too red, but I just click the golden "tone 2", and Wa La, M3 is not so icky looking. And the Injection Morph idea I believe was invented by users here at 'rosity too. So things you used to buy as add-ons for your Poser figure now come with product which is a money saver when you think of it. 3) The Hi-res Texture Map It's 3000 x 4000 which is not as hi res as I thought, and there many be some errors in the bump map. But I like how the new texture map allows for more exact map of a 3 dimensional object (it reminds me of the flattened orange peel version of global maps instead of the square ones). But because of this new UV map, it makes the job of texture mapping so much harder because it's so much more precise. The head map's eyebrow area is a nightmare! Anyhoo, M3 has a more realistic male texture than M2's half real, half art texture. It's almost too real! Looking at his body texture map gives me the heebee jeebee because it looks like M3 was skinned like an animal and flatten out into a rug. Eeeooow. ;p 4) Gender Mesh Poor M3, not only is he based on a girl's mesh, but he's gelded. There is a song I want to dedicate to M3, it's called "Detachable Penis." But seriously, I didn't like it at first, but I'm getting used to it. I used to get hip morph problems when turned gender on and off on M2. With this new approach, that will never happen. And it makes M3 easier to cloth. I imagine a parent could easily censor their daughter's Poser use too by pulling a Loraine Bobbit on M3's Gen.obj. LOL. ;p 5) Blank figure, and M3 to M2 figure Don't know what the blank is for, but I really like having M3's mesh adapted to M2's shape. I'm not ready to say good-bye to M2. 6) Product Support DAZ has done a great job making add on products available for M3. Overall, I consider it a good value for your money, -- a must have for Poser Users. MAC users should be aware they many have problems like I'm having. I hope they get fixed soon. bB

I think he is well done, like BastBlack said. What makes me a bit angry is, that DAZ doesn't respond to my emails regarding the at least strange bump maps. Sent them already 2 polite emails last week and no response. So their customer support is weak and I hop no one stumbles into bigger problems with M3. M3 himself is OK to me.

Im having a little trouble getting likenesses out of him, But he does make good young characters. Depends what you want him for I say, If you want younger less bulky figures then Mike 3 is for you. Im not crazy about mike 3 my self but you might like him more then me.

The reason I started this thread is the fact I'm really having a hard time making up my mind on purchasing M3...Vic3 was a no brainer for me, but this guy just doesn't seem right somehow with his appearance. Looking at the images I've seen so far, especially the ones at DAZ, his neck is waaaay too long as Niles said,...perhaps by bulking it up a bit, and perhaps scaling up the somewhat smallish looking head, it would help... V3 has 3 neck areas, if I remember right (Poser not loaded as I type)...which can be scaled, so I would assume M3 could be done likewise. As others have stated, his overall appearance looks feminine to me..but there have now been a couple renders with him looking more manly...I think it really depends on the texture used. The Textures for V3 Male seem kinda gay looking to me, ( and I'm not putting down gay persons here, just my feelings on the look)....and I think quite a few of the renders are using those because they fit and folks already have them. I've not been really all that impressed with most of the images I've seen thus far....except for the fact it is obvious the guy isn't Mike2 or 1....a new face in town, no matter what the look, but I'm having a very hard time wanting to acquire him. Maybe he will grow on me once I have him...and some different morphs come out.

Mike3 sucks, his body has many many problems, and the face is extremely limited..oh yea young and pretty and /or skinny he's fine, but all the faces look basically the same. And of course you guys love him he's vicky with no tits and muscles, it couldn't be more obvious and just for the record I have a right to post my opinion, so don't slam me. I believe many of the vicky fans may use mike infrequently, so they don't notice, but for we that like scifi heros and warlords and work with mike everyday, he really doesn't cut it, quite the shame really, just hoping for a boris for mike3 and i'll be very happy.

And of course you guys love him he's vicky with no tits... WELL...not all of us are guy...lol And some of us do use Mike frequently. I actually prefer not all of my "hero's" to look so big and bulky. I like the leaner toned look for some of mine, and had trouble with getting the non-steroid look for Mike 1/2. But you are right, if you want big and bulky, M3 doesn't do it quite as well yet as M1/2 with some of the superb add-ons. But buying a new mesh, I didn't WANT a duplicate of the old Mike. I wanted something new. And, like you, I am crossing my fingers and hoping dear Capsces gets a Boris equivalent for him. (But I hope that with everything. :)

From the looks of it, DAZ has supplied M3 with a rickets morph... Mind you, I haven't bought M3 and I'm not overly inclinded, but I said in another thread, I would've preferred if M3 was more masculine out-of-the-box and the femme side was what required all kinds of dial work.

Just wanted to add a few more thoughts on M3... I forgot to mention M3 has superior phenome morph. He's far more realistic than V2, M2, Posette and Dork. I bet when you use M3's phenomes with Mimic it will be amazing how realistic he looks. Thanks for the side by side comparsion. It really shows the differences between M2 and M3. I see M3's multi-ethnic look even clear now and M3 has no body fat. He's more toned. Here's an example of the body shape differences: Brad Pitt (m3) verses Russell Crowe (m2). Brandon Lee (m3) verses Bruce Willis (m2). The Rock (m3) verses Hulk Hogan (m2). Vin Desil (m3) verses Sean Connery (m2). A Calvin Klein model (m3) verses a Tommy Hilfiger model (m2). Genghis Khan (m3) verses a Eric the Red (m2). But that's just with the default settings. Morphs can do amazing things to transform a figure. bB

M2's body does not resemble one person you placed there, you wasted your time and glancing at it again neither does the mike3 comparison, show me a pic of m3 looking like the rock or brad pitt,love to see that.

Thanks for all the insights and onsights. Though I'm still torn between: "Do I need M3? Is he worth it?" and "V3 was such a quantum leap. Worth it in every way. So M3 must be as good as her." and "But it doesn't feel like it felt with V3. When she came out, I rushed to get her. Why did I not rush already to get M3?" Must decide before sale ends! Maybe the bumpmap will be reworked till then. (V3's neck is too long to. I always shorten it.)

Cherokee69: thanks for the great comparison shots of M2 and M3; they really highlight the current shortcomings of M3. No matter which muscular morph is used, M3 looks a bit like a "rubber chicken". Given that he is DAZ's 3rd generation Millenium male figure, you think that they would known better; perhaps the "unimesh" is not such a good idea after all as the results seem more like a regression than an improvement. I hope that DAZ and the other morph makers will be able to salvage the M3 base in the following weeks. Meanwhile, I'll sadly pass on M3 for the time being. Wolf359: Omigod! Your images at posts 19 & 20 are totally awesome! Now that's what an M3 character should look like! ;-P

I really like the face in post 20, but the body is a bit to bulky for my tastes. I just do "average" people....no super heros or the like. It may just be that there are some nuances that haven't been completely figured out where the morphs are concerned, and that will correct some of the flaws. If Cherokee69's M3 shots are created by simply applying the default morphs, then DAZ has some work to do it would seem. The most obvious distortion in comparing these is that damned neck! He looks a bit like a cobra! :) The arms and pits I was aware of. Well.....hopefully they can fix these distortions.

i don't think the unimesh is gonna work.....Arendar i agree with every word..thanks

Question on the comparison, though. (Someone has to be the devils advocate. lol) What pose did you use? Because remember, some of the things you circled could be do to the pose if it is a M1/2 pose. M3 can work with those poses, but it isn't as clean. (Same as v1/2 vs V3 and poses. The earlier poses don't take into account the new model. They are adaptable but not perfect. What you are circling is joint areas and the neck. (Which, without looking has probably changed just as vicks did.) That's just in all fairness to the comp. I still agree that Mike 2 was a good character. I like the posing better for M3. It's all preference. I personally have use for both. (Until capsces comes out with morphs, that is. lol)

As has been said elsewhere, whether with magnets or the Tailor it's easier to add bulk than to take it away (this applies to Vickie's breasts too). The joint problem when bulked up does seem a real issue, though - could the morphs control the JPs, or could DAZ produce a JP setter pose to adjust fall off or whatever for heavier shapes?

Many people here know how to make morphs, they know about meshes and joint parameters, but for we the people that know nothing about it, we expect the product to be "ready to go" bulk, skinny whatever..when we turn the dial. So we can't "oh mikes face isn't masculine enough, bing bang boom you've made a morph and fixed it". I just wanted everybody to know that we are not a bunch of whiners, we just aren't as advanced as many of you. So now we have to wait for a daz fix or another person to make morphs, it's very frustrating..And I truly believe daz could have done a better job, knowing this figure would not meet many of our needs or wants.

I agree with everybody that dislikes Michael 3. I usually don't like to give bad criticism but this unimesh crap simply doesn't works. Michael 3 is a female mesh forced and hammered to look like a male. You can clearly see in the pictures posted above all the anatomical horrors on this figure. The comparison between Michael 2 & 3 should say everything. In certain way Michael 3 reminds me so much of Poser 5. Sure his only real value is for the obvious different face you get but Michael 2 is still the best male figure from DAZ. Version 3 is a downgrade not the upgrade I thought they would come up with. I haven't bought Michael 3 yet but I probably will since I'm interested in getting a male figure that doesn't looks anything like the standard Mike. And I hope DAZ is working in a Hulk like figure, you still can't do it with Mike 2 and forget about trying to get those huge proportions with Michael 3, if he has such obvious mesh breaks in standard male form I cannot imagine how much he will break taken to those extremes. Curvaceous and petite cannot go too far, you need to start from scratch. I hope DAZ learns their lesson.

Realitys - The thing is the pose in those samples is not an extraneous (for lack of a better word) pose. It's a simple pose with the arms down... While I'm here, the real test will come when someone pairs him romantically with any of the MMWomen... What happened to silent screen lover, Jon Gilbert, when sound came in comes to mind... Incongruous... Maybe he can date LaRoo or Koshini... [grin]

thanks simon i agree

The pose utilized in those comparisons was not at all adjusted for the differences between the joint parameters of the figure. For a real comparison, the legs should be bent like that. As well, the Collar are set up differently on each figure. In short, you cannot use the same exact pose file on the two figures and expect the same result. This is the cause for a few of the issues seen there.

Thanks Cherokee for posting the comparison. I like some of the faces I have seen, but the upper body just freaks me out. Just trying to visualize M3 with Shirt and tie...eeeekkkkk! From the collar bone to the chin, it looks like 12 inches. I think I will wait, sale or no sale.

The thing is that if you overlay M3 with the artist guide to anatomy it lines up perfectly .. Certain number of heads high etc ... The dang traps are very similar as well. I agree they look too tall but that is why there is the traps small dial. They provide the dials and universal figure creation isn't really a one turn thing. Body builders come in so many different shapes and some of them have traps that go to the ears, some people have long necks, some have none ... It isn't a universal.

I think he may make a great skinny alien... DAZ should extend the sale until December 31...that way we can mabey have the corrections and we can see if they do any good. Plus real clothes may be out as well.

that square groin is to fit the plug and play stick and balls.

Yup....I don't see why they can't make a penis and gonads that work like a real males. What's the big deal? Do any of you guys out there take your "wangers" off before you dress??? Nope.....didn't think so!! :)

well, it depends if its the trans evening fir a tuck, if you know what i mean ... I can't believe I said that...oh my

Nope.....can't say I do know what you mean Dave-So....want to explain?? ROFL!

mmmmmm.......LOL let me think about this awhile...it may be too much to bear for some.

dirk5027,

I wasn't talking about likeness, I was talking about body types and face types. To clarify:

M2 is to a Caucasian male as M3 is to Multiethnic male.

M3 reminds me of the following celebrities:

Brandon Lee
Caucasian + Chinese Multiethnic
Brandon's multiethnic face type is very much like M3's face type.
Brandon's cut and toned body type is very much like M3's body type.

The Rock
Black + Hawaiian Multiethnic
The Rock's multiethnic face type is like M3's face type.

Vin Desil
Black(?) + Latino(?) Multiethnic
Vin Desil's multiethnic face type is like M3's face type.

Brad Pitt
Caucasian male.
Brad's face type is similar to M3's.
Brad's cut and toned body type is like M3's body type.

Conclusion?
I suspect DAZ was using the golden ratio with M3 and averaging multiple male faces to get an ideal. (Ethnicity melts away when averaging.) You can read more about this here:

http://tlc.discovery.com/convergence/humanface/humanface.html

There is also a book that went with this program, and you can also find a wealth for info about the science of beauty ideals in the library. Be sure to check out back issues of Discover magazine too.

Now about M2...
He's got a fleshiness to him M3 doesn't have. A good example of this kind of body type would be Russell Crowe in Gladiator. For the lack of a better term, I'll call his shape in that movie "muscular phat." Bruce Willis, Sean Connery, Hulk Hogan (and pretty much all wrestlers) I would classify as "muscular phat" and they all have the kind of manliness (face and body type) I associate with M2's look. In fact, Sean Connery, back at the start of his career, was Mr. Universe and his shape was not unlike M2's.

But personally, I prefer to set M2 to: Thin .250, Tone .250, Heavy -.050, in order to get what I consider to be a more ideal male body shape. (My tastes are more Jim Morrison than Arnold Swartzenager.)

Maybe somewhere between M2 and M3 is a good looking male mesh everyone will like. Maybe I'll try morphing the M3/M2 Figure halfway towards M3's shape to see what I get. Could be interesting. ;)

bB

I was a little upset before M3 came out - no way I can put him on my computer without choking it. Now, I can only say it's a relief. I do a lot of work with M2, and while he has problems, I've never found much difficulty turning him into the shape I want him, I've had him adolescent, average, large and muscular and even turned him into a Sumo wrestler. Since I post mainly on Renderotica, most of my guys are naked - mesh is important. Don't really see the point of M3. If you want a skinny pretty guy, you have V3 male morphs, which make a male figure that doesn't look as distorted as the M3 one does. This guy looks like his traps are coming adrift from his body, his legs are alarmingly knock kneed and those arms...I dunno what to say. They just ain't right, who has big square lumps in their arms like that? And he doesn't look gay to me. I look gay to me, and I don't look like him, and thank gods, neither does anyone I know :D If the reference was to what gay artists produce, there are a lot more doing big guys with muscles than thin svelte ones. There are a lot more Vickis on this site than Mikes anyway - I don't know if it's the same thing, but it's been mentioned at rotica that Mike is often used as just background or an accessory to Vicki who is the main focus of the pic. If you don't use him much or don't morph him much you don't get to know what he can do - I get people writing to me to ask how to make Mike more realistic, simply because of this - they're not used to his mesh. If you work with him every day, you get to sort out how to make him look decent and he looks a damn sight better than M3 with very little work at all. And you don't need M3 or V3 to get a slim pretty guy, M2 will do it all :D Check out some of the excellent Japanese characters that are based on him - Rubio comes to mind here. The penis problem has also troubled me for some time. There is no perfect penis available for Mike - out of the ones you can get, the GPA one is probably the best and a hell of a lot better than the default - even has foreskin morph, though you have to postwork the texture a little to get it realistic. It shows it's possible, however, to make a penis that's adequate and useable - so why didn't they make one and stick it on Mike?

As a developer, I've foudn that Mike 3 allows for such a wider range of character possiblities than M2 ever could have. And I've got a couple of top-secret projects in the works that prove it! :D

Madrigal, Mike 3 HAS a penis. A very nice one. With easy-pose of all things L I must admit that I haven't examined it closely yet. It is a "natural" penis, in other words un-circumcised. And it loads and poses nicely. I haven't looked for any morphs on it though. I was just ROFL at the easy pose bit :o)

I am really disapointed about M3. I expected much more. He looks young and very female. I stick to M2.

Only thing I'm dissapointed about so far is that I thought he would have the same amount of ethnic morps as V3. After all it's the same mesh, right? I think he needs some more face morphs. I'm sure they'll be in an add-on pack soon, but... He's a bit short of morphs, compared to V3. There's no FMB for Old either :o( But all in all I like Mike3 and I am happy with my purchase :o) He is NOT Like V3 male. His face is so much easier to make MASCULIN than V3, even with the male morph pack.

Anton did the V3 ethnic morphs, if I recall, and he wasn't involved in M3 so maybe that's why. Maybe DAZ should send him lots of chocolates/flowers/fine wine and beg him to help out now (or just kidnap Traveler from RDNA). I hadn't thought of the use of M2 poses to account for the joint oddites up there; Pdxjim has a better looking standing M3 a couple of pages up (for M3 naysayers or words to that effect).

... and it was Khrys, not Pdxjim - oops.

As I sort of implied in another thread, merchants don't not make some of these nice things (hair and clothes) that are being made for M3 for M2. I predict M2 will become more popular than ever...

And drax are you using mike3 as is or making your own morphs?

I'm sure if there are actual errors in the mesh Daz will do updates. But some of these issues are the 'eye of the beholder' type. I don't like large muscle-bound men. I like toned, athletic, a touch of muscle. M3 definitely works for me. If you want more, try spinning the dials some more. I have seen some incrediblly masculine images & faces for him- remember the barbarian face Drax did? Lobo's guy in another thread? Obviously the mesh is quite capable. It's a matter of experimenting, not just setting dials to 1. ernyoka1, M3 is not the same mesh as V3... And yeah, Anton didn't work on M3. The M3 penis has material zones. It can look circumcised, or it can have be au natural with a foreskin texture. Plus it's quite posable. I like it as a separate prop. I remember with M2 it kept popping out of his clothes even when I had set it to not be visible.

there is an old business saying..For every 1 person that complains, there are 10 that are unhappy and say nothing.