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Subject: May sound shallow, but what happened with the cover contest?


Ornlu ( ) posted Sun, 12 October 2003 at 11:14 PM · edited Mon, 27 January 2025 at 9:36 AM

Attached Link: Cover image

did anyone see the winners? i am at a complete loss as to how the first place image was chosen. The other's are allright, but I mean, the ones on the inside covers are better than the front and back. I mean, on both an artistic and technical level. It's a shame that woodhurst's image. didn't even get an honorable mention as I thought his best represented the contest's theme... Some of the images selected for the cover.. ie back over... have nothing to do with a winter memory at all except the fact that the image takes place in winter. I wasn't expecting to win, or infact to place at all, I just felt like entering, nonetheless. I believe some of the people who entered should have placed, whereas most of the ones that did...I don't even understand. Just felt like voicing my opinion on this topic, my point being I do not think that image chosen for the cover best represents the quality work at renderosity. And clay, if you don't have something constructive to reply to this, just don't. I'm not complaining, just completely curious as to what happened.


tjohn ( ) posted Sun, 12 October 2003 at 11:38 PM

It's very well done, I like the humor in it, but you're right Ornlu, it's hard to believe anyone thought it embodied "a winter memory". Who judges the contest? Mods from a variety of communities? Or a more limited group?

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy


Claymor ( ) posted Sun, 12 October 2003 at 11:55 PM

I'm glad someone else saw this too. While I enjoyed the humor...and the quality...of the image that won, I can't see anyone remembering being a dragon in winter. Of course, I could be quite mad...there could be dragons out there using graphics apps and posting here. Bet they do a ton of post work though...bastards... Of course, the scantily clad blue lady could be someones winter memory of an office party...would like to go to work there mind you. And while I LOVE gvidal's work...you'd have to be really old to remember those terradactal looking critters, wouldn't you? Or come from another planet...where there are dragons...maybe. All in all I loved the pieces...but don't see how they met the theme. All THAT being said though I wouldn't want to take anything away from the folks that won. Congratulations to them!!! (Goes to look for a turkey and a christmass tree to put in his halloween contest entry pic....oh, and a dragon)


tjohn ( ) posted Sun, 12 October 2003 at 11:58 PM

A dragon would conceivably fit in a Halloween theme, since monsters are associated with it, and you can dress up as anything. :^)

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy


madmax_br5 ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 12:09 AM

The winner image seems quite bland. There's not enough eye candy for me to see it as artistic.


d_hood ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 12:57 AM

When I first saw Woodhurst's entry, I didn't think anyone was going to top it. It's odd that his didn't even get mentioned. Whats more of a winter memory then Santa Claus and a parade? I could see the dragons in a halloween picture.


RodsArt ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 1:22 AM

I made a skier because it was more a memory to me, that's why my latest gallery post is in the gallery and not the halloween contest. O-well.

___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple


pidjy ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 2:38 AM

just a question.. do the winner modeled the dragons himself? if so.. it may be a good point because they are really well done, if not... well it's just a "put-together" image. Sure it's fun...but it's the kind of image we could see every day in the poser gallery.. Damn!!! did i said poser???.. a poser image winning again???? anyway gonna take a look at woodhurst's entry, reading you, it seem to be a master piece.


Zhann ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 3:56 AM

It seems as a general rule that a theme is annouced, whatever it might be, and then the staff picks a winner that is totally opposite that theme. And once again as always Poser wins again...I didn't enter because I didn't have the time, I don't think they give you enough. But the next cover is in January, so heat up Bryce for that one...

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...


Ang25 ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 7:19 AM

Dang, I'm disappointed too, I really thought the skier and snowboarder had excellent chances of making the cover. I hope they at least made honorable mention. Ok, I'm off to see how many of the brycers at least made honorable mention. bye. goes away with head hung low, its a sad day


Ang25 ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 7:26 AM

Congrats to Svaelt (definately one of my memories) and AgentSmith!!! for getting honarable mentions!


Aldaron ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 7:44 AM

The artist that won the front cover is also featured in the 8 edition. His dragons is a theme he is running and has become popular. Thus IMO the cover contest isn't about art it's popularity. Entries that IMO should win never do, it's always the obscure entries that have nothing to do with the theme with few exceptions.


PJF ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 8:06 AM

If you folks don't understand why that image won the contest, I recommend not bothering to enter anymore similar competitions - in order to avoid disappointment. The winning image is a clear, bold, positive and funny example of "human" interest that fits the theme of the contest (it's the dragons' memorable winter event). In addition the illustrator has bothered to accomodate the technical requirements of the magazine, such as leaving space at the top for the title and using a cover friendly composition. The remark that the image is technically inferior would be an insult to the brilliance of the artist's posing abilities, as well as his understanding of the basics of illustration, if it weren't just a case of 'pearls before swine' cluelessness.


Ornlu ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 9:24 AM

pjf, Not technically inferior as in, wow that image is terrible. But technically inferior as in, wow compared to the other images entered it's not even up to par. yes I understand the concept of rendering FOR a magazine cover, and maybe they wanted a lot of extra space, but the image is bland. Poses are funny I agree, but it's not the kind of image that would make me want to pick up a magazine about rendering. Quite frankly I think that either of the images on the inside front or back cover would have made a better front image. i just mean, why was woodhurst's entry neglected??? Not even an honorable mention? I thought it was the best entry in the contest...


catlin_mc ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 9:40 AM

Well if it was space required at the top for the R'osity logo I made mine purposely empty for that reason. I even went as far as to include a Poser figure, which I posed myself, to satisfy the compulsory software addition. Maybe from now on I won't enter these damn cover contests 'cos it appears that the admin have chosen the winner before the contest starts. That is my opinion and nothing will change it. We could start working on the January contest and do anything at all 'cos as has been said the winning images don't fit the description so we can basically do what we want as the winners will have been chosen so it doesn't matter what subject you put in. Why should we bother entering and why do the admin ask for more software apps to enter?, especially when there is no chance of winning if you are not a Poser regular. I'm sick of this place. Catlin


Ornlu ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 9:53 AM

If you didn't notice, the front page has a link to a small article about his dragons... They are using them to advertize issue #7... wow... Yeah, as if they hadn't allready chosen that image......... i'd add more elipses but... oh what the hell...................................................... ........................ .......... . . ...... ...


Ang25 ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 10:05 AM

Show us your favorite Winter Memories: Winter Memories that are hidden deep within the past, Winter Memories that are still fresh - like the season's first snowfall, Winter Memories that are slumbering within your imagination! Well I was a bit miffed at the memories thing so I went back and reread the theme and I guess I missed the very last word-IMAGINATION! So even though I am not happy with the choices made, I retrack my saying that it did not fit the theme. By using the word imagination anything goes. I do think tho that the people here should continue to try. There were an awesome amount of talented entries from this forum's regulars and maybe, just maybe one of us will hit upon exactly what those who are judging are looking for.


catlin_mc ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 10:14 AM

Ang I really don't think I'll bother in future. I can make money from my traditional art but my CG art doesn't seem to be worth a dot, so why bother, I do get dissappointed when I enter these contests so maybe it would be better for my mental state if I didn't enter at all. Catlin BTW, I should have said in my previous post that this place "sometimes" makes me sick.... 8)


woodhurst ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 12:09 PM

wow, thanks guys for the enthusiasm on my entry, i was a little disapointed cuz i thought that maybe I would place, but thats life:)I too, wasnt really excited about the front cover, my first thought was, did he have dragons when he was a kid? and i also remebered seeing the dragons had been getting alot of ads and stuff (not to crit bigT or anything, i love his gallery, and not to say that those were related). I just think that there were a ton of other ones that maybe didnt look as great but atleast followed the guidlines, like a woman holding a cup of hot chocolate or a snowball fight with other humans. Dont get me wrong, i thought the 3 cover winners were great--but i think images like "thinking of snow" not only followed the guidlines but were excellent as well, Ornlu's pic was even "cover friendly" and would have been awesome to see atleast place. im not going to crit renderosity, cuz i do owe them alot, but I just fell like us Brycers are are the kid locked in the closet sometimes. Oh well, thanks again guys for the enthusiasm, Its just what i needed right now:) and also congrats to everyone who placed in the contest, and all the brycers here who entered!


woodhurst ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 12:14 PM

oh yeah, and I agree with what Ang said-my thoughts exactly, and catlin, dont let these things judge ur work, you have an awesome gallery.


nuski ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 2:02 PM

I understand the many frustrations which accompany participating in these open competitions In my entry, I tried to tastefully blend the image of my granddaughter with a photoshop filtered winter scene created in Bryce. I placed a great deal of effort on atmosphere and environment . . . . details like snow covering the wooden structure, a few ground planks showing through the snow with snow on the branches of trees. As usual, my image wasn't even worthy of an honorable mention. . . .not that it should have been mind you. . . . . but I fail to comprehend the inability on the part of the judges to recognize both the compositional strengths and weaknesses of each submitted image. I also am amazed at the compositional freedom deemed acceptable during both contests and challenges. . . . .when the placement of a snowflake or sled can magically transform an image to conform to a theme such as a winter's memory. Through experience, I have learned that the level of realism, detail and quality of composition have no bearing on an images success in the online world. Success is ultimately achieved here when an artist can look at his/her own work and say to themselves," I like what I've created and have met the challenge." . . . . . one last thought. . . . . since dragons are cold blooded entities. . . . . shouldn't they be hibernating not sledding during the winter's cold?


tjohn ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 2:43 PM

Maybe some dragons are warm-blooded. They breathe fire, right? :^)

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy


catlin_mc ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 3:25 PM

As Ang pointed out imagination was part of the rules for this contest, it's just that to my eye it seems that imagination was the only thing that mattered in this one, no realism just imagination. Too many times the winners seem to have just clipped the meaning of the contest but they win none the less. I am not saying that the winning entries are bad, I actually think they are very entertaining but with the size of this community, and the number of different apps that are used, then at least once there should be a winner that doesn't contain Poser. Catlin Maybe someone should point those at admin to this little discussion, 'cos they sure don't seem to realise how badly their love of Poser affects the rest of us.


pidjy ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 3:31 PM

Could someone answer me.. Are those Dragons bigT's creation? or are they posable characters from Daz's or whatever???


Zhann ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 4:02 PM

Here's a thought, why don't we (individually) suggest to the magazine that it feature an image by a different software software app for each issue, that way there is no bias towards Poser images always making it. This is a community after all and it's made up of people using different packages to produce their art. Right now the cover does not represent the community as a whole, only a portion of it. If we make a big enough stink, maybe they will change the rules and actually pick from the different apps they ask to enter.

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...


Zhann ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 4:02 PM

Actually, I'm going over right this minite and start a thread to that effect.

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...


catlin_mc ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 4:04 PM

The dragons in question pidjy are the DAZ dragon, and just about every picture in bigT's gallery contains dragons in all sorts of situations. Catlin


Ornlu ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 7:17 PM

... Just thought I'd add that in.


PJF ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 7:40 PM

Ornlu wrote: "Not technically inferior as in, wow that image is terrible. But technically inferior as in, wow compared to the other images entered it's not even up to par." Yes, I had realised the context of your ignorant remark. And in general to this thread, I can only say that with such sour grapes as the main ingredient it's not surprising the whine has been particularly bitter, immature and unpleasant.


Ornlu ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 7:56 PM

Hmm, who pissed in your lemonade PJF? If you hadn't realized, My comment was not in the least bit in reference to my own loss. I merely would be happier, as apparently many others would, if our magazine would be portrayed as a supporter of high quality 'artwork' not mediocre renders of pretty good poses using absolutely none of the artist's models, rendered in a bland scene with bland postwork. I would have been joyous to see some of the exceptional poser images win, the one of the elf with the icicles on his nose holding the fairy was phenomenal, as well as the image chosen for online content. So please, do not point fingers and yell "sour grapes"... We're merely disapointed in the magazine's selected representation as the 'best' the community has to offer.


catlin_mc ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 8:06 PM

I personally think that Zhanns idea would be more productive to this community. By having a different application represented every issue it would represent the whole of the community rather than only the Poser artists and only the Poser artists that the admin are in favour of. Sour grapes?............well maybe it is, but every time this contest comes about you can almost guarantee that it will be the Poser app that wins and the rest of us stand around gobsmacked at the results. Change is essential for growth and productivity. Catlin


Ornlu ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 8:07 PM

Attached Link: Awesome Entry

Just curious, but you're honestly saying that the winning image had more artistic quality and appeal, Not to mention better suited for a magazine cover, than this image? I am just curious because I want your input. This image, or Woodhurst's, should have won imho. They both embody the theme of the contest and make perfect magazine covers.


RodsArt ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 8:42 PM

PJF, This forum is part of an "Artists Community". There is going to be a mix of content here based on "Art". Since your gallery, Artists page, & Contributions page is EMPTY, You apparently have no vested interest here.

___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple


woodhurst ( ) posted Mon, 13 October 2003 at 10:35 PM

PJF, ornlu was in no way being ignorant or immature--he was just saying that in his opinion, alot of other entries embodied the theme of the contest better, and deserved to win. No one here is being sour grapes, and no one is whining, i dont even find this thread very negative. Poser does have the majority of users on this site, and probably most of the focus falls towards them naturally, not that they neglect all the other apps at all, i mean this is a great community. I did kind of fail to see the theme resembled in some of the entries, and i had to scratch my head at the winners. I can think of about 4 other images that not were beautiful, AND were winter memories. I dont really know what im getting at Im just kind of typing the ideas fresh on my mind, but I think in the end it came down to looks and possibly popularity instead of imagination and coherence. but thats how the real world works....thats just my opinion, and thats probably all im gonna post cuz as long as i still have my Bryce and photoshop im happy.


tjohn ( ) posted Tue, 14 October 2003 at 12:48 AM

Ignorance means you are not knowledgeable about the things you say. Ornlu is very knowledgeable when it comes to digital art. If you do not believe that, spend some time in his gallery. I don't believe he was missing any special information about the cover contest before he formed his opinion, so he is hardly "ignorant" on that account, either. Calling someone ignorant because their opinion is different from yours is not a valid argument against that opinion. It's basically saying, "I'm right, you're wrong, so you're stupid." Not an argument. I thought the image in question was very good, and I said so, so I'm not in total agreement with Ornlu's opinion. But I agree that there were images that were more appropriate to the contest's announced theme. I also think the original intention of the theme as stated meant that the image should represent something from the ARTIST's memory, not the imaginary memories of the imaginary subjects in the image. If the judges decided not to follow that to the letter, well that was their perogative. No sour grapes on my part, just personal opinion, because I didn't even enter the contest. I found the exchange of ideas in this thread more interesting than the contest itself. :^)

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy


AgentSmith ( ) posted Tue, 14 October 2003 at 7:35 AM

The thing we have to realize is; it is not our judgement that picks who is going to be the winners, and that judgement will almost always be unlike our own. It's just the nature of the game. Yes, it can suck, the trick is to be objective about it all. Lol, it's called a trick for a reason...it ain't easy. ;o) AS

Contact Me | Gallery | Freestuff | IMDB Credits | Personal Site
"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"


catlin_mc ( ) posted Tue, 14 October 2003 at 5:21 PM

Your point is good AS, but as has been mentioned this is a community of many different applications and as Zhann said why don't the admin give a different app a go at the cover every issue. The way things are at the moment the admin pick the winner, the winner will most likely be Poser, the rest of the community gets pissed at the result again. It is not fair and in my opinion is less fair that what would happen in the real world. Every time we come to these contests you encourage folk to enter but it gets a bit much when every issue ends in the same result. It is making me unhappy and I don't think I will allow it to make me unhappy any more. So until things change a bit round here I think I'll just forget about the contests. Catlin


PJF ( ) posted Tue, 14 October 2003 at 7:35 PM

Ornlu wrote:
"Hmm, who pissed in your lemonade PJF?"

So you've started two threads to air your sour grapes about the winning entry, putting yourself at the vanguard of a big cry-baby pissing fest. Someone takes you to task over your mean-spirited lack of grace and abysmal sportsmanship, and you ask that. Not big on irony, are you Ornlu?

ICM, you apparently don't know what "vested interest" means. But you are inadvertently correct in that I am not here for personal profit, beyond the exchange of tips and techniques with other members on the forums. I have been here since the beginning on that basis, and couldn't give a flying fuck if you or anyone else finds it unsatisfactory. One of the reasons I do not make use of the gallery facilities here is the type of appalling behaviour shown in this thread.

tjohn, I chose my words carefully. I know Ornlu's view is based on ignorance because it is obvious that he has not the slightest clue how much effort, skill and artistry BigT puts into his poses and "comic strip" type illustrations. Just successfully positioning multiple Poser figures in situations like that is difficult enough, but to give the figures appealing character and humour is indicative of a high level of achievement. I've looked through BigT's and Ornlu's galleries - Ornlu is digital technician and fiddler - an artisan at most (that's no insult, I'm the same). BigT is a true illustrator, with a capacity for telling a "story" directly, clearly and boldly. That is an art. BigT can pick up technique as he needs it. I doubt Ornlu will ever 'pick up' art.

Ornlu, and most of the rest of you, don't see the skill in the winning image - so therefore it doesn't exist. BigT is so good he makes it look easy, so hey, it must be. If you lot saw Charlie Chaplin clattering around on roller skates "just barely managing to stay upright", you'd conclude that Chaplin was a crap skater. BigT produces a simple image, and you conclude technical and artistic simplicity. That's ignorance.

It doesn't matter a damn if an image is made with true ambient, motion blurred metaballs and rendered over five days using 600 radials to double simulate radiosity; or if it's made with three shades of emulsion cleverly dabbed onto a piece of cardboard. All that matters is that an image successfully fulfils its function. In the case of a magazine cover, that function has to be defined by the art director/editor.

Many years ago, when I was not much older than Ornlu, I dabbled in photography. I submitted a whole bunch of images for consideration as covers for the county magazine, thinking I was going to knock 'em dead with my portfolio of super sharp, perfectly exposed, perfectly composed, medium format transparencies of county landmarks. The editor sent them back, having selected just one. He thanked me for sending the "fine pictures", but politely suggested that in future I take note of the usual cover images. Well, duh on me. In my ignorance and youthful arrogance, I'd assumed they'd been using the images they had been because they couldn't get anything better. Since the magazine was called "Lincolnshire Life" it should have been obvious to me that they'd been deliberately using images of, well, life in Lincolnshire. People, action, and events. Some of the images were less than technically perfect - but it was the content that made them more suitable than my 'masterpieces'.

And the same lesson is what you doofers should be learning now. Stop looking for corruption, bias, and favouritism on the part of the magazine staff, and start trying to figure out what it is they like to go on their covers. I can tell you now that it has fuck all to do with Poser. It's variations of big, bold "human interest" that they're after, and Poser is getting it by default because that's what the people doing the big, bold "human interest" images have been using. The staff couldn't care if an image is made in 3D Studio Max or in Povray - if it gives them what they want for a cover then they'll choose it. If all you see on the covers is Poser, then you're a dumb shit and you'll never get it.

Many of the images submitted were of a very high standard, but none of them did the big, bold "human interest" as well as BigT's winning image. It's their magazine, and they call the shots. Don't expect them to change what they want in order to accommodate your ideas and your ego. You want to be on their cover, then give 'em what they want. Don't like the selection criteria? Don't submit images. And in that event - quit, or quit your bitching.


AgentSmith ( ) posted Wed, 15 October 2003 at 4:31 AM

Alright...

Contact Me | Gallery | Freestuff | IMDB Credits | Personal Site
"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"


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