Well, I'm really not interested in offending anyone about their computer choice. In fact, if I have done so, please forget I brought up my own opinions, which DO kinda suck these days. It's not nearly as important to me as enjoying your art, Scott, which RULES, or as important to me as making my own "art" (scoffs)!!! I knew I should have stuck with my FIRST post version, it was much less obnoxious, in retrospect! Truth is, according to my 4-year old son, the fastest computer on the Earth is actually Teletran 1, the computer that runs the Autobot's ship when they crash landed on Earth. You don't see PCs OR Macs cranking out new Autobots every season! I only use the Mojoworld bench because nobody's ever made a good, standard Bryce bench with the newer processors, and of course it's a great selling point for AMD's, considering how advanced Mojo is and how revolutionary it's technology is. I understand the benchmark's biased, but could find no stats that were LESS biased... As for "growing up"... This isn't Junior High. If you want to insult ME, at least come up with something original, PAGzone, you gallery-less fucktard. I am not a troll, but a DRAGON!!! Please take my jokes as JUST that, this isn't "Seriosity!", and I am not a child, but a professional just like you are, my friend! (bows to everyone)

shadowdragonlord - you call someone a f*cktard and you are not a child??? You just proved his point about growing up. You are dragging down this discussion/argument into something that I remember from grade school. You know what scares me the most, is the thought that you talk that way around the 4yr old child you say you have. So how about we lay off the language??

I use the cinema 4D bench to test computers.So far the osx panther on a dual g5 beats out the rest of the field.Also note,panther has given a noted speed increase to all the computers that have installed it.and lastly anyone who argues about which is better should go back to high school.they are just computers,no more no less.

Lol I normally use the 3ds Max benchmark to test computers, it's not available for Macs :-) (hence the reason I'm PC based)

Dragon: You make me laugh. You tell me to get original and that this isn't "Junior High", yet in the same sentence you call me a ****tard??? I think you just confirmed for everybody that you talk like you are in Junior High and you validated my statement. As for me being gallery less, this isn't a requirement to appreciating computer art and art in general, of course I owe you no explanation, but seeing how you talk on this forum, I figured I better spell it out for you...

macs suck for every reason known to man, please, down't get a mac, get windows xp. they're faster, hold more ram, gigs, the internet is WAY faster, and it is a whole lot easier to handle.

Misfit --- Ok I couldn't resist - do you have a spell checker in windows xp? down't????? Perhaps you should spend less time bashing Macs and more time working on your grammar and spelling. btw I think you mean the machine itself since windows xp itself cannot hold gigs of RAM (except vitrually). Again - this is a grammar issue. LOL!

Agai, I apologize for acting like a fool. No excuses, just a sincere apology for pointing fingers and calling people names. Innovator, I assure you my son receives only the best care possible, and is a strong and well-rounded boy who doesn't suffer from my tongue at all. Please don't refer to my parenting again, it's unnecessary for anyone to question this aspect of my world in an art forum, however OT. I DO appreciate your concern for his well-being! "There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the Land is one with the Dragon, and he one with the Land..." - Wheel of Time

misift you simply don't know what in the world you are talking about. How many replies in this thread actually helped BabaLouie? yeah...that guy waaaayyy up there at post #1 ;-)

Perhaps I should delete my posts in this thread? Or is it too late for such acts...?

nah just don't start it up again. free speech you know

For the Mac and Pc users that responded with helpful information I extend my thanks. I will be purchasing a G5 early next year and I will probably bug you silly in the MAC forum asking questions. :) Oh yes, I have been called names much worse that *sshole and on a number of occasions. One of the nice things I have learned after 48 years of life is to not let such petty things bother me. I just wonder what it is in a persons life that has made them so angry. Money is not a problem for me as I have indeed worked very hard all of life, why just last week I rewarded myself for my hard work by paying cash for a new 43 inch Pioneer flat screen plasma monitor and a Denon 2900 DVD player, total cost for me $6000. It is nice having money, but I assure you I have worked for every dime of it. No hurt feelings with anyone and peace to all ... BabaLouie

You'll enjoy your new G5. :) Starting with the G4 Titanium powerbooks, all new Macs are now metal-cased. Not plastic like someone above mentioned.

BabaLouie, On a forum like this one where almost everyone is very experienced with their machines people become most passionate about them. I'm sure even those with a few ruffled feathers had some fun with this thread. We haven't had a good Mac vs PC "debate" in a good while, so I think we had one due! It is somewhat traditional and fun! I can remember some rather excellent ones on the old Bryce List that made this one look quite tame. ; ) I am glad to hear you have done well. There is no good fortune as enjoyable as one that was well earned! Please ask all the questions you wish, you will find many here willing and even eager to help out. It will be interesting to hear what you think of your new Mac coming from a long PC background. Welcome to The Cult of Macintosh! Best Regards and Continued Good Fortune, Macmondo A Proud lover of shiny plastic and the next amazing new thing!

Ok Now I for sure want a mac.Good to hear all this info.Not the squabbling, but the real informative posts.I have been thinking for months about one.I love the design for one.I do not like the mouse I tried on the demo I tried... unless I can use a MX500 I feel lost.What can I grt for under $3000.CDNStill will keep my other PC's.(Well maybe I will dump the P3 fro a laptop.)

Amethyss
Your Mx500 will work just fine. Just plug it in... it will work. Most Mac artists get a multibutton mouse any way.
Check out the store at www.apple.com. They also have a link to factory refurbished machine that still carry the full warranty(lower left of Store page). You can also pick up a copy of MacWorld or MacAddict. Many of the vendors in the back will deal if you call them. Most Mac people buy their new toys and apps from mail order houses or online stores. You have to wait a couple of days but you save tax and they are usually fast and will discount if you bug them. For $3000 you can get a G5 1.8ghz (See MadMaxBR5's Post # 9 above for features) and still have enough to get a LOT of ram and a new LCD panel. Or use one(or two) of your present monitors and you can get some new apps to play with also. Get a bunch of Ram...with Macs, more Ram = more speed and more open large apps. You can get very good prices on Ram from www.datamem.com(for PCs also). Much better prices than from Apple(or Dell). For Factory warranty service you can take Macs to any CompUSA if you have one nearby.
I suggested the 1.8ghz G5 because neither Poser or Bryce are multiprocessor aware and that machine has 8 dimm slots(8 GB Ram Max). You can also upgrade the processor down the road if you want to. If you have any portable drives (USB1or2.0/Firewire IE1394) if you format them for PC's you can use them on all of your machines. Macs will mount all PC media just fine. I use one to transfer large files between my Macs and PCs because it is faster than 100b/T ethernet. The G5 has gigabit ethernet btw. It also has the hardware and software to edit movies and create custom DVDs included. Along with speech control and handwritting recognition(this is great with a Wacom tablet). OSX will also allow file and printer sharing with your PCs so you won't need to move your printer around unless you want to.
You can expect to get SEVERAL years of strong service from a machine like this. My brother is still using one of my 8 years old machines (a UMAX clone) and it still runs ALL current apps. He did upgrade the CPU and put a gig of Ram in it. He won't part with it because it has 6 PCI slots (with most filled.) My old Mac Plus from 1985 still works just fine also.

If you need more info you can IM me if you like.

Welcome
Bill

You can have all of this for under $2000. FULL TOWER Aluminium CASE ATX 550WATT ABIT NF-7 CRUSH S-ATA AMD ATHLON XP 3200+ 2GB DDR400 PC3200 RAM PIONEER 16X DVD ROM PIONEER 106 DVD-RW & DVD+RW 2x200GB S-ATA 150 7200RPM 8MB CACHE CREATIVE AUDIGY 2 PLATINUM EX sound card FLOPPY DRIVE 256MB GE-FORCE FX5900 X8AGP Graphics HP WIRELESS MOUSE HP WIRELESS KEYBOARD CREATIVE 5.1 INSPIRE 5700 Speakers 19" TFT MONITOR MERCURY TV+RADIO TUNER WITH REMOTE WINDOWS XP PROFFESSIONAL Regards, Thomas.

Attached Link: http://www.arstechnica.com

That is indeed a very sweet machine Thomas! I wouldn't mind owning it myself!! The main reason I do not like to run my PCs on the net is I do not like my machine reporting my business to Redmond everytime I go online. The .net stuff is just way too invasive for my blood. Upgrading Int Explorer even adds .net to Win98 ( I had a time with that) I do not trust Billy G with my data. Microsoft's next OS, Longhorn(eta 2006) looks to be even more invasive. I can see the PCs try to connect to Microsoft constantly from my Mac as I monitor my network traffic. You cannot tell they are doing it from the PC though. That is the sneaky type of stuff that turns me off on MS. Linux is great if only there were more apps available. BTW - The G5 running Panther(OSX 10.3) is 64bit clean hardware on a 64bit OS. The Athalon64 is much more comparable to the G5 in both price and performance. The cheapest I could find an Athalon64 is $700 for the CPU alone, and the mobo is also more expensive. Is XP64 out yet other than beta? BTW #2 - Apple uses AMD's hypertransport on the G5s for the frontside bus. 6.4GBS bandwith across the mobo per CPU is nice indeed. I also prefer to support AMD vs Intel. Much better bang for the buck! One last BTW - I attached a link to my favorite PC site. Very balanced info with no punches pulled for Win/Mac/Linux. Be sure to check out their God Box receipe(specs). That is one awesome PC windows or not!

Nice site Bill. :) You don't have to be part of the .net. I personally don't use it and have never been part of it. You have the power over your privacy and with simple tweaks to your browser and/or system it is possible to control any information that is destined to leave your PC. Viruses are another issue; I spend more than half of my life online, I have multiple setups constantly connected to the network. I have never been affected by a virus/Trojan or any other malicious code. The battle for security is an ongoing issue and it's a life long study. There is no such thing as a 100% secure environment when you're connected to the internet. If an individual has enough resources and determination, they will eventually be able to break into any system PC/MAC doesn't matter. Regards, Thomas.

Macmondo .... "I do not like to run my PCs on the net is I do not like my machine reporting my business to Redmond everytime I go online." Exactly one of the reasons I am leaving the PC world, being a part of the communications industry and being quite knowledgable in the PC/Win world I know all too well what is going on and am not comfortable in the least with what I see as a concerted effort between Intel and MS to create hardware and software systems that uniquely indentify my system and me too those who feel they have a need to know something about me, my purchases, site visits, hardware or software configurations. Intel has, IMO, become a horrid monoply. They have played so much with processor speeds and chipsets for the last 3 years, stringing along customers and manufactures that I can no longer justify buying their product. As far as MS goes I stopped buying their products about 3 years ago. Win2k Pro was my last MS purchase, if MS can give their product away or, at a reduced price to customers in foreign countries, all to prevent software pirates or the adoption of Linux, then they can jolly well sell their product to me at a reduced price. :) Having downloaded and read the white papers for Mac G5, as well as other research, I will be on my way to the Apple store about an hours drive away as soon as I post this. I hope the salesperson is up to speed as I have a hugh list of questions, the poor soul. :) A great weekend to all and a hearty thanks to the Mac and PC people for their helpful advice.... BabaLouie

I have returned from the Apple store and I must say that I am completely impressed with the G5. It was very difficult to walk out of the Apple store without one. This has got to be the most thoroughly integragted system that I have ever seen, the Panther software is absolutely amazing. I spent 2 hours playing with a G5 and the software that comes loaded on it. This is one fast and beautiful piece of equipment. I opened the side panel up, the salesperson did not get nervous though, well not until I took out my screwdriver. :) Nice and clean on the inside, well thought out. Beautiful aluminum exterior. I now understand why Mac people talk about the 'experience' and 'feel' of a Mac, for those of you who are adamant Windows users, open your mind up, go to a Apple store and see for yourself. Yep, I am a new Mac convert.... I have seen the Light and now all is clear. :) take care, BabaLouie

Congrats BabaLouie! Macs are really fun to use and you will LOVE Panther. I have had it since last friday and I am still amazed at all the little things I keep finding that make it such a great upgrade. Regards, Paul

BabaLouie , it is wonderful to hear of your experience. :) During my lunch hours I sometimes visit a J&R store near work that has a floor dedicated to Apple computers. I think I mostly go there to dream over the Cinema Displays now, but when the first G5s came out I had to go there and try them out. They left me alone to play, which I really appreciated.

Paul and Caly thanks ... For those who have not been in an Apple Store, it is certainly an experience. The one I visited probably had 12 or so of the Apple laptops on display and powered up, G5s and other systems as well, a kids corner, software and hardware sections all in a big open area, plenty of room to amble about. One kid on a laptop had a shootem up on the laptop and on one of the G5 systems as well, he was wanting me to play against him, I knew better thought. :) A person could very easily spend a lot of time in there, again and again and again ..... BabaLouie

Yep! ... You're hooked!
Have fun with your new machine!
Apple is well know for the Reality Distortion Field Effect that is emitted from its products and loyal fans. Within the radius of it's effect visions of great things occur for those who dare to think different. It is something that you just have to experience for yourself.
Wait until you see what the effect that having All of your major apps up and running smoothly together has on your workflow. The difference is amazing, when the OS is not a distraction. I will look forward to hearing from you in the future.

Best Regards,
Bill (macmondo)

For all of you windows folk who have been following this thread you should really take a close look at just what .Net is and what it does. It was first introduced with Office 2000 and then added to every OS release from ME on. It has been called by several names over it's history. It can be added to Win-98 just by updating Internet Explorer. It is very hard to remove without causing major instabilities in the OS. It cannot be removed or disabled in XP as it is integral.
Microsoft's next OS called Longhorn, will take this .Net concept/technology of information and data sharing even further. If this matches your vision of what your computing experience and data security/control should be, then all is well and good. You should however make an informed choice. Microsoft is getting away with this simply because it's users have not objected. Remember that you as a customer are making their payroll.

Best Wishes to all!

After you install XP, the OS prompts you to enter a Microsoft .NET Passport account to enable access to certain Internet communication features. To turn off this reminder, perform the following steps: Start a registry editor (e.g., regedit.exe). Navigate to the HKEY_CURRENT_USERSoftwareMicrosoftMessengerService registry subkey. If the PassportBalloon registry value doesn't already exist, go to the Edit menu; select New, Binary Value; enter a name of PassportBalloon; then press Enter. Double-click the PassportBalloon value, set it to 0A 00 00 00, then click OK. Close the registry editor. Kind regards, Thomas.

You can also use Add/Remove to delete unwanted programs: When you start the Add/Remove Programs Control Panel applet and select Add/Remove Windows components, the system doesn't display all of the components because Windows doesn't want them uninstalled. However, you can change which components the system displays. Perform the following steps: Open the sysoc.inf file located in the %systemroot%inf folder. Go to the [Components] section. Locate the entry you want to make uninstallable and remove the word "hide." For example, for MSN Messenger Service, change the line msmsgs=ocgen.dll,OcEntry,msmsgs.inf,hide,7 to msmsgs=ocgen.dll,OcEntry,msmsgs.inf,,7 Save the sysoc.inf file. Regards, Thomas (ttops)

Attached Link: www.blkviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm

The sysoc.inf file is a good hack Thomas, I have used it for 3 or so years on Win2k Pro. I always take a look at it after I patch or update Win2k. I also go into 'Services' and stop and disable a good number of them. The attached link has some good info about services and what you actually need to have running. For a system that is strictly for gaming you can actually shut down a lot of services. The info is for XP and Win2k. Cheers, BabaLouie

I envy you, BabaLouie. I use both a Mac (G4 with OSX Jaguar) and a PC (Compaq with Win98) at work, and I own both a Mac (blue and white G3 with OS8.6) and a PC (custom built AMD with Win98... because I refuse to upgrade to XP and have to deal with all those IM pop-ups, faulty security, and .NET stuff), but if I had the money, I would soooooooo buy a new G5 with OSX Panther. Pretty, pretty please, if you ever consider giving away your new G5 for an even better model next year, think of me! :-D

Interesting site BabaLouie :) The attached link was invalid so I'll repost it: "www.blkviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm" I have to admit that I do like the G5 series. Just wanted to point out some of the miss concepts regarding .NET frame. I'm not here to promote Windows, however XP Pro is the best release I've ever used; when it comes to stability- and I've been around since the 3.x. A hardware firewall will do the job for anyone seeking total control over their own systems in/out. Good luck with your new toy. Kind regards, Thomas.

Attached Link: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

With the references in this thread to microsofts spyware and the moves they're making going forward, I've attached a link to a good FAQ on microsoft's idea of 'Trusted Computing'. Just out of interest, I use microsoft products, but my firewall is a Linux one that can be set to block spyware attempts, fascinating how regular the outbound data is.... Baba, good luck with the new toy when it arrives :-)

Sorry Ttops, but ET still phones home.

Gog CA1 - That was a very interesting link. Thanks! It was interesting to read the actual patents which are very broad and cover new technologies for a long time to come. Network person computers sounded quite intriguing, and the parts covering my appliances was rich! Billy G wants to make sure that my freezer checks to see if I have paid the grocer or I can't have any pudding! What is his cut in all of this. Yes, that was a spoof but if you read closely it is not that far out.
My concerns about these patents are not about piracy. I, as an artist feel strongly that not paying for intellectual property is theft. A crime, pure and simple. But, MS has a very poor record of securing access to its OSs and third party access to these routines is not a risk I want to take.
http://cryptome.org/ms-drm-os2.htm for quick reference of several patents.

Controlling access to data is an issue that goes beyond platform. Currently the Fritz Chip is the Flavor of the day, but it is just another incarnation of the Clipper Chip from the 90's. The names may have changed but the issues remain the same.

Those who seek to control your information have Tyranny in their hearts.

Computer Lore - Bill Gates was one of the very first victims of software piracy. He wrote one of the first OS's for the Altair called Tiny Basic. Tiny Basic was a gem that only occupied 2k of the 4k of Ram that the Altair had. It came out at the same time as a device to record software on ticker tape (8 possible hole across for each Byte). Well, people had no concept of paying for software at that time and this was one of the first ones for sale. Bill wrote a very interesting letter in one of the early Dr. Dobb's Journals about this. He has good reasons to dislike pirates from way back.