What can you do with Poser by itself? I've been planning on buying Poser 5 for about 2 weeks now, and I'm hearing comments like "... What 3D application would you use to make stuff for it?" ... ! I'm an Artist/Illistrator that is getting into 3D animation. From what I saw, Poser was the better program for charater creation, but I'm suddenly hearing things like you CAN'T actally do that. Could someone fill me in and tell me what I should buy this week!? 8p

Depends on the definition of "character creation". If you want to invent entirely new shapes and turn them into characters, then you'll need a separate modeling app. But if you mean something a bit less severe, then Poser will do the job. A huge number of basic figures and props are available, and Poser gives you several ways to reshape those items. Note that I said "several", not "many". Most Poser users, sooner or later, bump into the edge of its native reshaping abilities.

I think the confusion comes in with defining what is meant by "character creation" ... Poser 5 comes with male, female, and child characters, as well as clothing. You can alter the appearance of the characters by utilizing the Face Room, or by using "morph targets" that, for example, will make a nose larger or cheeks puffier (you get the idea). There are also a limited amount of body morphs that affect the shape of the body. You will also hear about Michael, Victoria, and the other "Millenium" figures. These are very popular characters (some feel more realistic) that are created by DAZ 3D (www.daz3d.com). Chances are you'll eventually want to get bitten by the DAZ bug 8-) Now ... you will need another 3D program if you want to get into creating your own clothing, or morph targets, or scenery and props. But it isn't clear that you want to go in that direction. If you need more info I know lots of people have lots of answers. 8-)

Okay, let me tell you what I'm doing.

I've clicked on a sale ad for Skye, and I'm thinking to myself "That's marvelous. I could make something like that. Oh, and look - there's several of them, so you MUST be able to do that."

I'm actually really smart AND creative, so if it's possible.. I can do it... but...

My first idea was 3Dmax6, but that costs $3,000 ... AND everything that I saw from Poser was so much better that it didn't make any sense.

Someone told me that Bryce was just as good for the price, so I hung around in thier forum until I could get down to Frys... however... One look at screenshots from Poser and Bryce, and I decided to wait a week and buy Poser.

I was all set to do that Saturday when I suddenly find a thread entitled "What 3D modeling application....? ", and everyone started talking about what programs that you would use to MAKE stuff for Poser.

So what I'm trying to ask is....

What do I buy?

OK ... if you want to include people in your art, Poser is the way to go. But on the other hand, knowing the "smart and creative" types (those who work with BOTH sides of the brain, as someone phrased it), you may actually want to create your own stuff eventually. I say start with Poser. Get a feel for 3D, learning about lighting, texturing, and composition (that in itself is quite an accomplishment) ... Then, when you want to graduate to actual modeling there are other alternatives besides Max ... I use LightWave in addition to Max, and actually prefer its organic modeling tools. LW does not carry as hefty a price tag as Max, and does just as good a job. Others use Rhino, which has a smaller price tag still ... and others swear by Wings3D, which is freeware. We'll help ya get there ... and it is a lot easier if you go one step at a time.

Okay, then I'll do that. Thanks. I downloaded the trial version of 3Dmax6 and played around with it for 30 days, but (like you said) most of it was learning what the different buttons and tools do. Right now, I'm at the "modify-found-objects" stage... but yes... I will want to create things very very soon. So far, I've only "created" several textures... I'm just learning about bones and stuff.

Hey Frenchie, Dr Geep here. Um, you can make alot of stuff using just Poser (heh, heh). ;=] But if you want to make your own figures and clothing, you should get a 3D app like Carrara $3-400 or something similiar. Want to try you hand at creating models for FREE ! Get Anim8or ... it's free and you can play with it until you make something or get sick of trying ... one or t'other. Either way, you're not out any bucks. Poser is excellent for, well, POSING figures. Maybe that's why they named it ........ well, you get the idea. You can make models (per se) using Poser. If you're interested ... CLICK HERE and see some of the models you can create using only Poser. cheers, dr geep ;=]

You mentioned that your an Artist/Illistrator. With that I assume that you probably have a 2D image program like Painter, Paint Shop Pro, or Photoshop. with Poser there is a LOT of free stuff out there to get your feet wet without spending additional money, however most of the free stuff has commercial limitations, you can ask and some people will let you sell an image using their free item, but you have to ask. There are TONS of extra clothing, enviorments, subscription sites, etc to add to your poser use, like the above mentioned Daz Millinium models. If you have a image program, and can already draw, with poser you can pose the model, then render and take that and draw the scenery in your image program, add clothing by painting or drawing etc. You do not always have to model in 3d the clothing item, get it in poser tweak it and render and then take it in image editor. Many different ways of doing things. for animation Poser 5 still has some problems, CuriousLabs has state they are working on the next software update and that may fix more, then Poser 6 when it's release is supposedly going to fix all the things wrong with Poser 5. I don't do animation but people that do have expereinced a bunch of problems with poser 5 and animation, Poser 4 is more stable in some areas supposedly. you certainly could not go wrong buying PoserArtist (formerly Poser4) I've seen it for $89, CuriousLabs charges $119. lot of the functionality is already there for ya, you could then jump up to ProPack for animation tools as needed. Poser has primative shapes that can be used to create new items, props, scenes etc. Dr. Geep posts here regularly tutorials on creting things IN poser using just the basics, always amazing. There are enough people around that if you NEED something, gererally it's been thought of and can be found, or someone will come along and you can buy it. If you need the latest Chanel Jacket from this season on your figure in poser chances are that you will need a 3d program because you cannot really do that IN poser, there are a lot of free 3d programs that you CAN create items for poser and not hurt your wallet, just depends on your level, learning curve and wallet. If your an artist and illustrator Poser will fit in your set of tools. wow, long winded or WHAT! gewd! I'm done now. haha!

Okay. You see, what I was kind of hoping to do was finalize 3D characters and scenes, then make animation sequences for them. I see how the Pose then Paint idea works, but I'm kind of hoping to have a "Finished" intact creation that I can move around and play with.

if you want to create your own figures and animate them and that is your goal poser may not be for you. if you got 3dstudio max, maya, lightwave etc then you could model, rig and animate to your hearts content. see any of the major movie releases to see examples of what can be done. on the poser end creatures, or character are modeled outside of poser, imported and setup for poser use, then you can use a set of plugins (additional charge) to host those back in your 3d program for animation. say you wanted to do a bunny rabbit animation. if you could find a rabbit model you liked for poser you could buy that, setup the animation in poser and render the animation with poser's limited animation tools. you could even with plugins use a 3d program and use the poser file and animation. currently for poser 5 the plugins for maya, and max, and cinema4d are by resse studios (spelling?!) those are additional charges. with a 3d program you could model your own rabbit, setup the animation and render the animation, no poser involved. I guess if you like what is availble out there for poser and can see using those models in your animations then poser would be the way to go. if want to do your own original models and animations, I'd say why bother with the extra step of poser unless you want to give away or sell poser items. my 2 cents.

Poser has good animation control as well. Also... I don't know why nobody ever mentions Amapi. Go to the Amapi forum at this website and click the link at the top for the free version of Amapi 4.15. It is fully usable. If you like it you can upgrade to Amapi 7. Most of the tools are the same with added functionality. I here that Wings 3D is a good free app too. I just needed to pick my poison (so to speak) and chose Amapi to learn. Cheers, Joe

Ft, just so you know, we're all the addicted here., and you are heading that way yourself. Poser with freebie stuff is great, and you have some control over what your characters look like (unless of course, you are Capsces, and are a magnet godess!) After that, you'll expand to buying characters and addons. (Clothes, props, horns, wings, ect.) Then you might want to look into Bryce, or Vue, because with some effort and luck, you'll be able to get poser stuff into them and have your characters in virtual worlds. Course along the way, you'll be compositing your poser stuff with other images in photoshop, or something similar. Then you'll probably either want to make your own characters, and that's when you'll be looking at full 3d packages. You might just plateau at any one of those stages, and much depends on how much free time you have, or if you have a life. ;) It's a hell of a ride, but be prepared at every stage to pull some hair out....

Amapi, Wings3d, SPatch, Hamapatch, Behemot, Rhino has a demo version, Blender for animation, Probably a hundred more available in either semi crippled, demo, or free ware. Art of Illusion not to be overlooked, even though it's Java, it will run on any platform once the environment is downloaded, also free. Older versions of CAD programs if vector drawings are your thing, some newer ones available reasonable. For out and out down and dirty "display something impossible", PovRay, but you're gonna spend lots of time learning the code. (Povray is probably the poorest choice if you're in a hurry, but probably more versatile than any if you've got the time, and a good math background. No param that can't be changed with only a couple of keystrokes. THis, however, doesn't mean you're going to get what you want, only that you'll get what you told it to do.) Must be almost unlimited choices out there beyond all that have already been mentioned. Teragen for landscapes also notable.

actually Turbocad 7 is in 3d world this month (in England), early next year (US). But I'd have to put a vote in with Wings 3d..I've gotten a lot of good packages from 3d World, Computer Art, Digit mags..you can also get back issues..you get (albeit older) but full versions of several packages for around $13-15 or so..including the heavies like Maya and Lightwave (though a bit 'crippled')..start with the free stuff, and when you're up to it, go as far as you'd like.. and welcome to the wacky world of Poser..

Ultimately you are the one who has to know what you need. If you are a professionnal artist/illustrator some 3d knowledge nowadays would be invaluable. Poser Artis is a good starting application to teach you the very basic of 3d animation, I think it was originally conceived to help artist in visualizing the human body. You cannot really create content with it, you are somewhat dependant on the artistic vision of the content creators out there, you can of course add you own personnal touches and with postwork create some stunning artwork. But if you are the truly creative kind and really want to push yourself in the medium you would probably be better off with Lightwave or 3dMax, because these are applications that will truly stretch your mind and imagination. They are not for the timid, but are truly fascinating and challenging. They are not cheap but, trust me in no time you will have spent their cost in content for Poser. If you feel you have the stamina and interest for 3d modelling and animation, get a professionnal package and dive in, if budget is a concern and character animation your interest you could look into Animation Master which is sophisticated and not expensive.

Actually I have been using amapi 7 (thats not a free program) Its their completely re written version since 6.1 (I LOVE IT!!!!) its light years better...(took them over 2 years to re write it) The upcoming Amapi Pro version will be great as well. I tried Rhino...its nice! but for me personally Amapi 7 is more intuitive...you can set up older style menus like Rhino or you can grab new tools by simply doing a right swipe with the mouse (very fast when you get used to it) The Amapi designer costs a lot less than Rhino as well...its great!!! And of course if you buy Max or LW then you are buying a whole lot more than just a modeling program and if you want to model for Poser only...you may not need all that extra animation and rendering power. Cheers Harvey Mann

Also PhilC has a female model on his utilities page which is designed to be used as a step towards creating your own models. (It is quite a bit better than starting with a cylinder!) You can take this into any program which allows for tweaking and adding polygons. I think he uses TruSpace for most of his modeling? Carrara has about 3 different approaches to model making: polys, nurbs, and patches, IIRC, so you can try all 3 methods and see what works best for you. I'd still start with Poser to get a feel for working in 3dspace and how to set up scenes, poses, lights, keyframes, etc., then add a modeling program when ready to make the jump into original creations. Until you have wrestled with hair and cloth, you won't know what approaches will give you the look you personally are after. Carolly

Here's how I got into Poser... I wanted, like you, to learn about 3D graphics. I had no knowledge of CGI, modeling, etc. I bought Poser Pro Pack and started playing with the models that come with it and some freebies from here & other sites. I became addicted (lol) and began purchasing models (human, animal, clothing, props, etc). Now, this of course can become expensive so I kept playing with what I had and bought what I could when I could afford it. Of course, I want to learn to model. I have some plans of my own (which lead me to begin using Poser) that I'd like to see come to life. I don't want to use models that can be easily recognisable as "Victoria" or "Michael". I want them to be my own. So, for giftmas, my husband bought me Cinema4D, the best modeler that no one's ever heard of. I started with wings which was simple & fun but not very powerful. I tried Maya's PLE and got no where. I started researching other modelers and was leaning towards Max when my hubby surprized me with C4D (he wasn't sure if it was something I could use or not). I hadn't done much reasearch on C4D but thought, "What the heck" and I LOVE it. Everyone has their own preferance for a modeling program. Anyway - I'm rambling now... sorry about that. I think Poser is a good investment. It was inexpensive to get started and it's lots of fun. And, I've learned a whole lot about 3D graphics from using it. I don't regret buying it and starting with it. As someone else said, at least with Poser, you can start experimenting with simple things like facial expressions... then move up to lighting and eventually animation. Get your feet wet with CGI and other people's models, then, one day you might feel comfortable enough to start making your own. It's your money, you spend it how you see fit and what you think will be the best investment for you in the long term. Good luck! Liz