Hi hmatienzo, Thank you for your kindness - and I do hope we can change your mind about the Renderosity Interactive Magazine when it comes out :) Happy Holidays! Dee-Marie

Hi Sean,
Loved your article in issue 8.

I understand what you mean by the enjoyment of holding a magazine in your hands. I too shall miss the printed magazine - I think what I shall miss the most, is when I pick my copy up at the Post Office. Especially this time of the year - when the lobby is crowded, and everyone oooooohhhhs and awwaaaaaaaas as I slowly open the wrapper and share the excitement of viewing the finished magazine for the first time.

I always run around to complete strangers and make everyone smell the ink, feel the pages, and look at the pictures. Instead of calling the loony-bin thinking I have gone crazy, everyone delights in the enjoyment and beauty and has nothing but wonderful words of praise - and there is no denying, that the printed version shall be missed.

However, it is with that same love and devotion of the magazine that drives the magazine team to keep the magazine alive. When I mentioned above that the magazine is a labor of love - I was not exaggerating. Not only putting the magazine together, but also working with the amazing magazine team.

The magazine staff is a dedicated, and hard working bunch. They are devoted to the Renderosity community they know that what goes into the magazine not only reflects Renderosity, but also reflects the members who contribute to each issue, and also it reflects each team member. When I say team member I really mean that, as we work as a team the old saying that there is no i in teamwork, as corny as it may seem really does apply here.

It is because of this undying dedication to Renderosity, the Renderosity community, to the magazine, and to each other that, yes we would hope that past readers would know, that we would never give you a product that was less than high quality less than the best that we can do. So, although every member of the team [like our readers] is greatly sadden by the fact that we will no longer be producing the quarterly version of the magazine, we are still excited at the prospect of blazing new ground with the Renderosity Interactive Magazine.

The team wishes everyone a most wonderful holiday season and we eagerly look forward to this new and exciting year a year of changes and great expectations!

Dee-Marie

I have to agree with hmatienzo, dee-marie. It is a pleasure to see someone discuss an issue in an adult manner; despite the tenacity of the questions brought forth.

If you are at liberty to discuss it, some of the hows and whats have been addressed, but I have not seen anything touching upon the whys. Nor have I seen a reason given why R'osity could not allow the first edition to be seen by all vs a few. IMHO, that, above all else, would be your most successful marketing tool in garnering support for a paid subscription.

As to the promotion of the magazine let me get Lillian in here the next time she is online - She can better answer those question :] Right now - I have have to get back to work on getting the magazine up and running :) I promise to pop by later to help answer any new questions or comments. Sincerely, Dee-Marie

As I have stated above, we really do care what you think and appreciate your comments - both pro and con.

Knowing what the community likes or dislikes, helps us grow as a magazine :)

However - Please keep the comments and questions directed towards the magazine Not towards other members.

Members posts that are not directed toward the magazine and are only directed towards others in a negative famous will be deleted.

Thanks everyone for your understanding.

Sinerely,
Dee-Marie

hmmm but you've still not answered a concern about this service. say there's a tutorial about rigging a poser figure in the Sub's area. and in the Poser Forum, a request for the same information is made and answered? will the tutorial be made free? will the post in the forum be removed? basically what is the plan for dealing with such a matter? if you leave the tute in the sub's area, you can be accused of ripping off the subscribers. if you remove the post from the Forum, then you can be accused of censorship or worse. I'd think this out VERY carefully.... ppl will be watching your answers on this.. and believe me you NEED to answer this concern.

Hi Kaibach
Hopefully I understand what you are asking, please correct me if I am wrong. [and I mean that in a most sincere way]

---

An article is published to the Renderosity Interact Magazine: concerning rigging a figure in Poser.

---

Flash forward a few days after the Renderosity Interact Magazine Issue #1 has been launched.

After the article has been published to the Renderosity Interact Magazine Issue [lets say issue #1 just for this example], a member in the Poser Forum asks the same "exact" questions about rigging figures in the Poser Forum.

The author of the Renderosity Interact Magazine's article [tutorial] that appeared in Issue #1, just happens to be in the Poser Forum, and in the interest of assisting other members, he helps them with their Poser rigging questions - using the same exact words that he did in his Renderosity Interact Magazine article.

---

Your question: Would this be a "magazine contract violation" and would his thread be removed?

---

If he was just giving helpful advise in his own words, and not quoting the whole article - No - it would not be a violation of contract, and Yes it would be allowed.

---

However, if he copied and paste in whole or in part any portion of the published article[without written consent from the Magazine], in its edited polished Renderosity Interactive Magazine Format into the forum - before the 3 months after the publication of the magazine his article was listed in - even if it was in 20 different non-consecutive thread postings - Yes it would be a violation.

---

However, 90 days after publication, the article reverts back to the author and he is free to post or resell the article to whomever he/she wishes. This is a standard magazine contract and standard magazine practices.

---

Second scenario
Lets say a member who is Not the author of the article , and in his eagerness to help someone, decides to quote word for word from the magazine article. That member would be in violation of a copyright act and could, if the author wished to press the matter, sue for copyright infringement.

Thus that member would most likely be given a TOS warning or worse [depending on the circumstances] and Yes, his thread would be removed from the Poser Forum.

Exception: small parts as in blurbs, which would be one or two sentence can be in specific cases referred to, for educational purposes, as long as the document [in this case the magazine] was named and the author of the article listed.

This does not however mean that a person can over a long thread post the whole article in tiny little blurbs. :)

Dee-Marie

ok... once I wade through the corporate blurb in that.. yes that does answer my question, but brings into mind why we need this subs area... the mag was good in a printed form, since as most ppl don't have a dual monitor setup as I do, having a hard copy is very handy. but having an online form of the same info I can get for free? that makes the idea of buying a sub very iffy. (as for online content, since I hardly use vickclone or mikeclone, freebies for those have very limited use for me, and judging by the use of those figures round here, well.. (I come mainly for the trueSpace forum and tech help on poser. and the rare non-vick/mike item that pops up))

"If he was just giving helpful advise in his own words, and not quoting the whole article - No - it would not be a violation of contract, and Yes it would be allowed."

As happens a lot in the technical sector, much of a technical article could be simple instuctions that you cannot change the wording of due to the nature of the application. Would these excerpts be allowed, along with different wording, if necessary, to flush the idea out more?

It seems to me that if the author is providing content for the magazine for free, there should be no restrictions on usage to the author; except maybe in the case of competing sites. This brings into question whether being "published" is adequate compensation for the Magazine to even request that the author refrain from using any portion of the article for any length of time. In essence, the author would be allowing the Magazine first publication rights, and nothing more; except maybe reprint or other rights as deemed necessary.

Also, eductional usage is a legit reason for Fair Use. If you are teaching someone how to do something, this clearly is an acceptable Fair Use practice.

US Copyriught Law Section 107:

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.

Whereas this is permissable under the law, how can R'osity restrict rights granted by the Federal Government? BTW, Fair Use does not only apply to the copyright holder, but anyone using copyrighted works.

Hi Kaibach

Actually, the Renderosity Interactive Magazine will have the same high quality content that was found in the Renderosity Magazine.

And in reality, if someone has a scanner they can scan an OCR [Optical Character Recognition] of the article and use it in the same manner of the above scenerio. In that respect the Renderosity Interactive Mgagazine would be no different than the Hard Copy version.

I appreciate you comments about what you would like to see featured in the "Bonus Merchant Product Preview Download" section [aka the exclusive product downloads only available for a limited time through the Renderosity Interactive Magazine].

Let us know what kind of things you would like to have available to you as an exclusive download. Do you want models that can be used in any program? Do you want .3ds file format? Or is it just the item kind of item you are looking for?

My interest is anything that would deal with the Arthurian Legends Era - So I would be interested in anything dealing with castles or knights, horses, or dragons etc.

You may be more interested in Sci Fi. Just let us know what you would specificly want to see - Also, now that we know you are interested in TrueSpace - we can find a Rosity member who would be willing to write an in depth exclusive tutorial for the Renderosity Interactive Magazine :)

Dee-Marie

I find this very sad. This does change everything. I am not one of the ones fortunate enough to have a laptop.. so how will I be able to read this online magazine on the bus or at our small cabin in the woods on the weekends? That is when I would like to read it.. I don't read magazines while sitting at the computer.. I'm sorry

I am not a copyright expert although I do know and understand the copyright laws pertaining to Images and the written word. I will refer you to my above thread posting as to the questions already asked on this topic.

Bottom line, - any detailed copyright law information will need to be answered by JenyK our expert in that field.

Also - All artists sign a contract [publishing agreement] with Renderosity concerning their article that will be published in the Magazine. This contract is sent along with the invitation to submit a story. The contract is written in very clear and concise lanuage so that the writer knows what their article will be used for, how long it will be used, and when full rights to the article will revert back to the author.

Dee-Marie

I understand what you are saying, it is nice to have something that you can hold in your hands and read while away from the computer - I know I don't get away from the computer enough - and enjoy my time not reading from a monitor. However, although we have always done our best to bring amazing interviews and breathaking images to the hard cover magazine. Still the bulk of the content was devoted to tutorials. Thus, you needed to be online to take full advantage of the tutorial content anyway. Having the tutorials online already - will actually make it easier to take advantage of them. Thanks so much for your comments.

"Bottom line, - any detailed copyright law information will need to be answered by JenyK our expert in that field."

Then I await JenyK's involvement.

"All artists sign a contract [publishing agreement] with Renderosity concerning their article that will be published in the Magazine. This contract is sent along with the invitation to submit a story. The contract is written in very clear and concise lanuage so that the writer knows what their article will be used for, how long it will be used, and when full rights to the article will revert back to the author."

This is all well and good from an author perspective, although I would think that adding restrictions that may curtail the author's ability to market their copyright material would be a deterrent vs being an incentive to give to R'osity for free; especially when the publication is virtual now and not physical - which is better to build one's portfolio with.

The Publishing Agreement does not extend to subscribers and, therefore, would be inadequate to protect R'osity against Fair Use by subscribers. Likewise, the author would be considered a subscriber if using material directly from the published Magazine and would be presumably covered by Fair Use in that perspective, as well. Whereas this, too, is a copyright-related issue, I will await JenyK's participation.

RE: "US Copyright Law Section 107"

The spirit of this provision of the law was to allow limited distribution and sharing of information not wide-spread distribution as would be done if a copyrighted article from the "magazine" was posted by a member on a forum available to several hundred thousand members.

Once a contract is agreed to, even the author of the article would would be hard pressed to show his publishing the article on such a forum constituted fair use, until the assignment of copyright and usage reverts back to him. If Renderosity and the author have a valid contract restricting the author from any use of his submitted material for 3 months after publication, the author is bound to that contract.

Many publications offer no compensation other than "publication bragging rights" to budding authors. Whether being "published" is adequate compensation is up to each individual author to decide. There are some that will turn away from doing so simply because they feel knowledge should be freely shared. Those that feel their efforts have greater value or those authors that feel they are established enough to warrent some other form of compensation will not agree to their works being published. In such cases, it will be up to Renderosity to either offer compensation of value to those authors or seek content elsewhere.

Those interested in knowing what print publications offer can pick up a copy of the Writer's Market (or the Artists Market for artists). It lists thousands of publications and their rates. Many, many publications offer copies of the publication or "tear sheets" (copies of the article) as compensation, if they offer anything at all. It depends on the publication, it's size, their target market, their budget, and many other factors. Until an author builds up a resume, and attains some recognition...they can rarely expect to receive much in the way of compensation.

{{{{It seems to me that if the author is providing content for the magazine for free, there should be no restrictions on usage to the author...This brings into question whether being "published" is adequate compensation for the Magazine to even request that the author refrain from using any portion of the article for any length of time.~~CyberStretch}}}} Good point Cyberstretch. 3d World Magazine pays close to $500.00 for a 4 page tutorial, and close to $1000.00 for 6 page tutorials and articles for 90 days exclusivity. After the 90 days are over, one gets to do whatever one wishes with the material, including resell it again. What I don't get in all this, is that with Rosity Magazine getting totally free content, free labour force to put the magazine together, and now free of even paper publishing costs... why can't this magazine be kept afloat financially?

Wow, this thread has grown since I was last here. I'll stay out of the copyright issues since I'm just a know nothing in that area. As for the magazine.... 1. I don't think that all the tuts in the mag are available on the free forums here. I know that because I do the technical editing. But if you do find the same or similar thing here, remember, this is a great place and there is much to learn by being a member. 2. Conflict of interest is not always a bad thing. As long as it is known, its ok. Where conflict of interest becomes a problem is where the person hides the conflict then uses it for a hidden bias. If the cards are on the table, the information can be very valuable to the reader. Sometimes the best review is from someone on the inside who has worked with the product. I had the privilege of beta testing two softwares. One was code name Ovation. It was an HTML web development program written by a flight student of mine (and i'm proud to say, a fine pilot and aircraft owner today). The concept was to make a drag and drop HTML editor for the average newbie in computers who wanted to put up a family web site and had no idea how to go about it. Some of the concepts were considered "impossible" to do. The code finally sold to Sierra and was on the shelf as Sierra's Web Studio. The coder bought it back recently and sells it online from his website which is backtothebeachsoftware. If I had to give a review on Ovation/Web Studio, I would be giving a review that had some insight that no one else would have. I also had the privilege of being on the beta team with Mojoworld from pre-release through 2.0. While my contributions were minor compared to others, I can say that we all worked hard to find ways to break the program and send the coders into late nights with the coffee pot. Doc Mo responded personally and worked his tail off to make a winning application. A review from someone who really knows the app would be better than a review from someone who thinks the mouse is the foot pedal "on" switch to his sewing machine. Wanna make a better crow bar? Give it to the kid in the sandbox. Wanna hear how strong and solid that crowbar is? Ask the kid in the sandbox. Reviews from those on the inside are very worth while and I doubt you will see much of them in forum due to NDA's and whatnot. But, you might see them from rare time to time, in the mag. 3. Freestuff cannot be found everywhere. While some of the freestuff in the mag can be found in the 'Osity freestuff, I know for a fact that there is at least one item upcoming which cannot be found in the free section. I'll say no more. 4. Online mags do cost. We all work hard to produce quality. There are indirect costs for time away from other things and there are direct costs for bandwidth, storage space, database management for subscription deliveries, and consultation with experts to optimize and protect the product. We all give up our time. I made a decision to walk out of the office to the elevator every night between 6 and 7 pm so that I can have time at home to play, do what I enjoy, and help others with the magazine. If the money that comes in from the mag helps keep this great site running, then I'm all for it. I and others would know nothing about 3D if it were not for this site. All of the great help that each of you have posted in forum by answering my questions is not forgotten. I support this site by helping with questions that I can answer, by running the Poser Forum Challenge, and by working with the magazine. You can support this site too and get something back in return. 5. Other mags pay for articles. Well, some do, some don't, and some give lofty percentages of mytical formulas that work out to Jack Squat in the mail box come payday time. And they inundate you with advertisements. You ever see advertisements in the printed Renderosity mag? Did you pay $13.95 for ten pages of text and 20 pages of ads on really cheap paper? Noooo, you did not! It was a pure creation never before seen and well worth the price for every page. Although, I have to confess that I have bought advertising magazines just for the single purpose of seeing what's new and what's out there. What a great way to make money ... collect a fee from the advertiser and then charge the viewer to read the ad! But that's a snide remark that will get me banished to the JarJar corner again. If I had my way, 'Osity would be advertising because I think we all benefit from seeing the state of the art in 3D. By the way, none of this is official 'osity stuff, just my personal and humble opinion. Ok, I'll go to the jarjar corner now.

"The spirit of this provision of the law was to allow limited distribution and sharing of information not wide-spread distribution as would be done if a copyrighted article from the 'magazine' was posted by a member on a forum available to several hundred thousand members."

Copyright Law - the governing law - does not stipulate any given quantity and, therefore, I presume you are incorrect. The only cases I have seen involved copying and using a substantial portion of the publication - of which, one tutorial would not be considered substantial.

If it is a learning/teaching session on a site that may have "several hundred thousand [listed, not active] members" which - at any given point in time - less than 2,000 (1%) are online, and an even smaller fraction visit the forums in general, with an even smaller fraction participating in that particular thread, I am sure that you can see that the "several hundred thousand members" becomes a moot - if even existent - point.

The "numbers game" is always played here and hardly factors into anything from a practical standpoint. Just think of how many news/review sites there are, their audience, and you will see that the scenario you presented is extremely far-fetched.

"Once a contract is agreed to, even the author of the article would would be hard pressed to show his publishing the article on such a forum constituted fair use..."

Not so. The author-publisher relationship does not preclude nor interfere with the subcriber-publisher relationship. The Federal (remember that word, it is important) rights of Fair Use apply to everyone (that word is important, too).

More likely, R'osity will have a hard time proving it was not Fair Use; since the whole purpose of a tutorial is to tutor (ie, teach) a subject. The most R'osity could hope for is using such a stipulation against future publication (ie, if you make your material available, we will not publish your tutorials again). Here again, an author would be daft to accept such terms and R'osity would be jeopardizing the content they rely upon for the Magazine to be successful if they did press the issue; so R'osity would lose either way.

Attached Link: http://www.opinionjournal.com

*"why not make the entire first online issue a "selling point" for future versions? Why should the members trust the selected blurbs vs having the ability to gain the full experience? Do you honestly think the Members do not know that R'osity will - like any company - promote what they think are the best parts and leave off the bad or not-so-good? Marketing is nothing new, people have become used to the usual tricks of the trade."* He does have a point here... For instance, The Wall Street Journal launched an online subscription article detailing John Fund's political notes and gossip concerning the upcoming 2004 election. When they launched, the article was free for all to read for two weeks (a new article pops up each weekday), so that folks could see up front exactly what they were being asked to pay for. Enough folks found it worth the $3.95/month to keep it a going deal for the WSJ. You can find the article and site in question at the linky up top of this post. IMHO, maybe y'all (R'osity PTB) oughta pay up for the articles and such. It will bring you a whole bucket of submissions from which to choose, and seriously guys... your own jobs/classifieds forum is a living exercise in why folks usually turn their noses up at "exposure" as payment. You want the best, be prepared to pay for it is all I'm saying. (shrug.) /P

being on the far side of the world and all.... heads off to fight some french frigate with cannon and a bunch of jolly tars

Please forgive me for posting information that I mayn have previously posted. However, I do realize that this is a long thread and some words may have been missed or mis-read.

All serious writers are aware that it is can be very hard to get your first article published. To add to that, many of the bigger magazine publications do not even look at work from writer's without some publication credits to their names.

Thus, it is common practise in the magazine industry, especially for small specialized publications [like the Renderosity Magazine] to offer space in their magazine to writers who have never been published before. This helps both the magazine to gather content, and for the writer to gather publishing credits.

Some of the smaller publications offer a "tear-sheet," which is just as it sounds - a sheet from the magazine that only contains the article written by the artist. Others, like Renderosity, give the author a copy of the the issue that they are featured in.

Posting the rates that the "3D Word Magazine" pays to its writers - that is wondeful, and I hope every Renderosity Member submits an article and gets accepted into the magazine. And I mean that sencerely!

However, I am sure that you will agree with me, that comparing 3D World with Renderosity does not in any way what so ever - apply to this situation! You are comparing a huge corporate producted Magazine - to our little community magazine.

What has always set Renderosity Magazine apart from other publications, is that we are here to promote Renderosity Members. The majority of our articles are written by artists - not professional writers. To add to that, I would venture, that the majority of artists who have submitted articles to the magazine have never even thought of doing so, and to that respect, it was a labor of love for both the Artist - to see their article and images in print, as well as the magazine team who helped them get there :)

Renderosity Magazine is not like anything out on the market.
Our motto from its conception has been to be a magazine for the Renderosity Members by the Renderosity Members. And we have succeeded in our goals!

The magazine gets great satisfaction from our teamwork - from our belief in the Renderosity Community, in the Renderosity artists, in the Renderosity philosophy of one artist helping another.

Each Issue of the Renderosity Magazine is a true labor of love. Love for the Renderosity Site, love for the Renderosity members, and we [the magazine team] offer our time and talent freely to promote a site that we LOVE being apart of!

If you have read an issue of the magazine, you would realize just how much of the Renderosity teamwork and devotion to the site and community comes through with each issue!

Dee-Marie

{{{{Posting the rates that the "3D Word Magazine" pays to its writers - that is wondeful, and I hope every Renderosity Member submits an article and gets accepted into the magazine. And I mean that sencerely! However, I am sure that you will agree with me, that comparing 3D World with Renderosity does not in any way what so ever - apply to this situation! You are comparing a huge corporate producted Magazine - to our little community magazine.~~~ Dee-Marie}}}} Hi Dee-Marie :) Its not necessary to be someone special, or have published in the past to get published at 3D World Magazine. I mean, they even took an article from me, so that proves anyone can get a chance ;P And they paid me well enough that my family is going to get a great Christmas too :) They are a TINY little company. I bet Rosity Mag has more "staff" working to put it together than 3D World Mag has :) They don't run a ton of ads and no content... they are one of the best tutorial based content mags out there, all authors paid a decent going rate for their work :) And they manage to distribute internationally, whilst publishing a highly successful magazine on a shoe-string budget, and it all works for them. They are really nice people too, as far as working with them :) They sent me free copies to give to me mum! ;P

Dialyn, I fail to see why you think that pointing out the facts about other markets, and 3d World Magazine is "grinchy". And I also fail to see why you think anyone either asking questions, or pointing out legitimate alternate views on things are some sort of an attack always on Rosity. I think you are sort of prejudiced in your views for some reason that eludes me, particularly since you have never been shown anything except kindness by me.

Dialyn, I think you're looking for problems because it's quite a stretch to find one in Mehndi's post. It didn't contain one word about her site or one word against this site. It was about the magazine DeeMarie was refering to. I also love 3D World Mag and have been a subscriber for 2 years now. It's absolutely full of tutorials and articles. Very little advertising and a CD full of free stuff and demo's every month.
Mehndi was just confirming what DeeMarie said about submitting articles. If you wont look at 3D World simply because someone you don't like had an article published it's most definitely your loss and no one elses. You'll also find lot's of Renderosity artists images accepted.

I LOVE 3D World and I am overjoyed for you that they accepted your article and that now you can afford Christmas gifts because of it - as I would have been very sadden to think of you not having a great holiday! I truly am very proud of your article being accepted - it is an honor to be published!

I still stand behind my statement that 3D World is NOT a Tiny Magazine! They are sold in magazine stands worldwide, I know the figures, the stats, I have done my homework :) That is not to say that they are not an amazing publication! Because they are outstanding in what they do :)

Many of our members who are published in the past issues of Renderosity Magazine did not have your success in getting an article published in 3D World, nor did the majority even wish to. They are very please and excited to be able to give back to the Renderosity Community :)

As is the Renderosity Magazine ;]

We at the magazine team stand behind our Magazine and the Renderosity members. We are a magazine devoted to Renderosity and to the amazing artists that are devoted to this site! The magazine is created from love for the artist and the community and the Renderosity Site! This makes us very unique! And Very Special !

We are so very proud of our publication, and our Magazine Staff as I am sure that the staff at 3D world is proud of theirs :]

Happy holidays to you Mehndi and we wish you new year filled with many magical moments!

Dee-Marie

I am posting this reminder again - Member/User Conduct: Members and users are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times. Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for art while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships. Members/Users will not use this community for; Destructive commentary/communications made with the intent to disrupt or attack (Trolling). This applies to any communications within this community, whether in the forums, art galleries, graffiti wall, chat, or IM Dee-Marie

hmm well I'm not attacking the work thats been done, I am merely queationing why we need this? we have the forums. the tutorial section. the freebie section. there was a reason for the paper magazine, but for a paid for subs area on a site that already offers so much? logically why is it needed? it's not... sorry to pull logic on this, but with all the problems this site has had with it's infrastructure, adding more and more complexity is well.. stupid. Dee-Marie? I'm sorry, but with the policy of not paying for content work, I have to refuse any approach me for content. if you go ahead with this illogical subs area and start paying for work then I would be interested. at this time tho.. I see no point when I can give the information for free in the forums and be free to take my work anywhere. being bound to a contract for no payment? no. a contract and being paid? yup. well I'm bowing out of this thread now.. to me it's a illogical idea which should be dropped.. but I know it won't be.. and another mistake is made...

Now, back to the actual issue at hand :) Dee-Marie, I at least, and I do not think anyone else is either, am NOT implying that this new form of magazine won't be great stuff, of the highest quality, and highly desirable :) I am sure it will, since our community has some of the greatest artists who have ever lived in it, bar none. True masters :) What I think you are missing that many are trying to bring to the fore is this: 1) Why not pay the authors, since this "magazine" is a paid subscription and not free? Why ask the authors to give away their content for "fame" when the magazine itself makes money? 2) Since it is the plan to not pay authors, then why restrict their rights to sell their work to someone who will pay for so long? That is all we are asking? :) You see... just like most of the artists here, I am a "starving" artist too. I am just so glad I did get paid from 3d World Mag, or as you have aptly guessed, my own ability to give personal gifts to my family would have been incredibly limited, due to being disabled. (Well, actually I am very lucky, Russell would have bought my presents for me, but I love it that I got to spend my own money I earned myself to do it :) ) Lots of the artists here who are the very best, are also disabled and need a way to make a little money or they too won't have a nice christmas. So being paid for your work if it is good enough to get published is such a nice thing for the artist, both fame wise, and financially. So why not pay the artists? Or else let them try to sell the article to someone who will pay? Why hold them back to this 90 days exclusive thing and not pay? That is all we are asking :)

I am posting this reminder again - Member/User Conduct: Members and users are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times. Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for art while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships. Members/Users will not use this community for; Destructive commentary/communications made with the intent to disrupt or attack (Trolling). This applies to any communications within this community, whether in the forums, art galleries, graffiti wall, chat, or IM Dee-Marie

okay... having seen the removed posts, (I had my interest peaked to comeback) I have to ask.. where were the attacks on ppl? there were none by the TOS you quote. please do not censor a discussion in progress when the TOS is NOT being broken. if WE have to stick to the rules so do YOU. Thank you.

Only threads that have featured personal attacks - have been removed. Those threads that did not make a direct attack nor call members names have remained. I have posted the TOS - 3 times in this thread with reminders to please refrain from direct name calling towards other members :) Thank you so much for your understanding Dee-Marie

you know.. a saying comes to mind here.. 'Who Watches the Watchers?' we have, by the way the TOS is being applied, an attack on a member in this thread being ignored and posts that are not attacks being removed, with quotes about attacking members being used to explain. how about some consistancy? - apply the rules as written and without favour.

Eeeks, I could have sworn I reposted this! Maybe it did not upload :( I'll try again :) ======================================================== Ok, now that I have clarified that it was only me complaining of bad treatment of me that Dee-Marie found offensive, and the precise complaint she found offensive, I will work on re-posting my message :) I trust this will be satisfactory to you Mom! :) ======================================================== Original Post - Edited to remove what Dee-Marie finds offensive: LOL! Since we are all able to "speak our mind", I'd like to point out Dee-Marie, that with all due respect, we cannot possibly be discussing the same Renderosity ;p The WHOLE REASON the TOS exists here is so that the community CANNOT speak it's mind. This has just been proved that after all ;p One cannot say what anyone is REALLY thinking, one can only drop hints, because if one really speaks one's mind things get deleted. Ok, but enough of the freedom of speech issue. That is not what this is about. As for 3d World Magazine, refusing to read it, or buy it, or support it, is sort of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. Ironically, anyone who boycotts 3D World Magazine based on silly little things like who has been published in it is actually giving Renderosity less support than Russell and I do every single month. You see, Rosity is a major supporter of 3D World Magazine, contributing a several page gallery spread every single issue. 3D World in turn reciprocates by driving traffic here. We buy 3D World every month, and so we support both New World Publishing, AND Renderosity ;p Speaking of support... despite the personal prejudice toward me of many people who shall not be named, and their obnoxious and rude treatment bordering on a type of cyber-stalking level of abuse toward me, I STILL come here and buy things from this Marketplace so as to ensure that Renderosity survives, and that their artists flourish financially. I am not so prejudiced toward other sites that I would refuse to even just visit, refuse to buy, just because I find certain people to be unpleasant from my own personal perspective. I have some serious concerns though that anyone who is on any staff anywhere may wish to consider in their heart. If one is so prejudiced toward other sites, and so sensitized that one needs to twist every thing one hears about another site into something bad, or any post made by another site's staff into something bad, is one really suited to being a staff member on any site? Staff need to grow a much thicker skins or they lose their minds.

I Love it when everyone plays nice :)

Not a mum, but thanks for the compliment :]

As to the 3D World Magazine - No one has said anything negative about the 3D World Magazine - Everyone I know, including myself, LOVES the 3D World Magazine - So that is a non-issue :)

As to Renderosity allowing you to post freely - the above post only confirms that - As long as you post within Renderosity's TOS - you are welcome to post your views pro or con :)

Aside from all that...

We Wish everyone a great holiday!
The Renderosity Magazine Team looks forward to the new year!

We hope that you will find the new Magazine format filled with many magical moments and wonderful surpises!

Dee-Marie

"11. This will not be an ezine - but a new concept in Magazine publication! " Bull, nothing is new, it's all been done. I've seen this same concept several times before, and its always failed. Why do you think the eBook concept flopped? This is really no different. Personally, as with all other things that the PTB is doing lately, r'osity will shoot itself in the foot (presumably repeatedly), especially when they refuse to listen.

Come on guys. This is not productive. No one brought up Poser Pros except Dialyn and even as subtle as it was it was glaringly obvious. This whole tangent can be traced back to her post and it's incredibly unfair to discount the words of one who happens to own the other site. If people want to build walls that's their problem, don't make it the problem of those of us who don't. Mehndi's comments were on topic so lets get back to that.

If Renderosity chooses to not pay article or tutorial writers and the writers agree to that then it's their choices. If someone want's to be paid for their article, Renderosity's mag isn't the place as of yet. Who knows of the future. Perhaps it will get there someday for that to happen. (I wasn't aware of how the articles worked)

My opinion on the subject is that if you publish articles from people who are happy with the coverage or bragging rights, while it's all well and good, you may not (no absolutes) get the quality you'd get if you paid. And in a way I'm comparing the two magazines in question. On the other hand, most reading this magazine are hobbyist and their tutorials are excellent. There are many who just want to give back to the community, help support it, etc. It's how I feel.

We should see how the online version goes before really running it into the ground. They've obviously been doing it this way from the beginning and the subject has never come up before. I do see the point of others though on putting it online. In a way it does feel like a pay version of Renderosity. But again, we won't know till it happens.

For those of you that dont know me yet, please let me introduce myself. I am the new Marketing and Promotions person here at Renderosity. I just came on board in October. So far it has been an exciting adventure and I look forward to the New Year and getting to know all of you better and working with everyone to help us all accelerate the evolution of art! That said, I appreciate all of the input, feedback, questions and concerns expressed with regards to our new Interactive Magazine. Dee-Marie has done a great job in communicating and answering most of the posts. I will do my best to provide some additional information as well. As you know, we are taking a new direction with the Magazine. This change that will offer the community a unique and valuable experience with more content and interaction made possible by bringing the magazine on-line. Closer to launch, the previews for the Renderosity Interactive Magazine will begin and all Renderosity members will get to see them. The copyright concerns expressed regarding reproduction of content will be covered by our submission and subscriber agreements that incorporate our copyright policy and US Copyright Law. We would like to thank the hundreds of subscribers that have sent emails in support and anticipation of the launch of the Interactive Magazine. We appreciate your enthusiasm and support for this exciting new venture. Best Wishes, LillianH Marketing & Promotions

"As you know, we are taking a new direction with the Magazine. This change that will offer the community a unique and valuable experience with more content and interaction made possible by bringing the magazine on-line." Unique my everloving ass. why do you guys think that this is such a new idea? Companies with MUCH bigger revenue and customer bases has failed miserably when trying to do the same exact thing.

"All serious writers are aware that it is can be very hard to get your first article published. To add to that, many of the bigger magazine publications do not even look at work from writer's without some publication credits to their names." LOL! Sure... if I were to submit an article to Playboy or The New Yorker... BUT, as this is the Internet and not print, trust me... it is laughably easy to submit articles for inclusion into content-hungry website mags. Don't believe me? I'm not a serious writer by any stretch of the term, and yet I submitted and got published a whole host of tech editorials into Linux Today, and even a ZDNet-sponsored mag back in the mid '90s. Lookit - I'm not out to insult anyone here, and I haven't a clue as to what the magazine will be about. I will also go further out and admit that I liked the print version fairly well. However, it isn't as if R'osity has a Madison Ave. mailing address and a reserved slot at a major publishing plant, and let's face it: You need competent content as badly as competent writers could use the cash. :/ "Thus, it is common practise in the magazine industry, especially for small specialized publications [like the Renderosity Magazine] to offer space in their magazine to writers who have never been published before." Sure - but not the whole mag. Also, this (again) smacks of the 'job offers' in the Jobs/Resumes forum promising "exposure". I mean, c'mon... even as a rank amateur, if I were to submit something for consideration, I'd at least want a fee, and at the most charitable, you'd prolly get one-time run rights, and that's it. "I'm Published!" don't mean squat if it leads nowhere, and the maxim always holds that you get what you pay for, ne? If you're lucky, you may get a few folks to contribute some decent type (and you have been lucky in that aspect), but for how long? Unless they're completely naive, they'll wise up and move on to something more profitable. "You are comparing a huge corporate producted Magazine - to our little community magazine." I'm willing to wager that Renderosity grosses more in cash per annum than a lot of medium-circulation magazines do. Like it or not, Renderosity IS a corporation. You WILL advertise marketplace goods in it. The calculus is real simple here... you're a corporate entity. I understand and sympathize with the feeling you're trying to evoke here, but the cold, hard truth is that you cannot deny what Renderosity is. Now, I don't mind a bit that R'osity is a corporation (LLC, whatever), and that you're wanting to sell me things. OTOH, I find it an insult to the intelligence to see an attempt to spoon-feed the masses something that clearly is not. "What has always set Renderosity Magazine apart from other publications, is that we are here to promote Renderosity Members. The majority of our articles are written by artists - not professional writers. To add to that, I would venture, that the majority of artists who have submitted articles to the magazine have never even thought of doing so" Sure - it's a hobby. But how many will continue to write for you a year hence? It's not as if I'm demanding you shell out the crown jewels here... you could very easily front the writer $40 or so in store credit for each article, and perhaps a free year's subscription renewable for the duration of his/her work with you, and the writer would prolly enjoy the hell out of the exchange. At least that way the appreciation would flow in both directions, ne? /P

As both an artist and a writer, I know how hard it is to get published for the first time. Being featured in the Renderosity Magazine has helped to promote many artists and writers, by giving them the opportunity to become a published writer or artist. Which is a very prestigious honor to be published. With all respect, this is one of the things that is MOST frustrating about being in a creative field. There are so many people out here who want to find work, and who want to be published. However, for every creative person that is out there seeking recognition, there is another who wants content for free, with no compensation other than for the sake of being published or for the sake of recognition. It takes time to write a quality article or tutorial - and the going rate for articles in other magazines can be as much as a grand or more (yup, four figures!) In all fairness, you should offer some form of compensation. I agree with Penguinisto ... how about at least a free subscription ... or $100 worth of items from the store for free?

Yep Deecey, you are right on target in the going rate of pay. New World Publishing is TINY compared to Rosity as a corporation. But they paid me close to a $1000.00 for a 6 page tut. It took me two weeks out of my life, working non-stop till I almost dropped to write that tut to the quality level I wanted it to be, and so they compensated me for that time at the standard going rate, even though I had never once had a single word in print before, and am a rank amatuer as an artist and writer.

Yup, Mehndi ... I've been there too. 8-)

.

strolls in with a jug of mead and some fresh grapes Don't mind me, just getting settled in the corner. I may add some commentary later...

"The copyright concerns expressed regarding reproduction of content will be covered by our submission and subscriber agreements that incorporate our copyright policy and US Copyright Law."

Considering that R'osity's stance on many Copyright issues in the past has been - to be kind - blatantly incorrect; I would very much like to see this "Submission and Subscriber Agreement".

This is also the first time I have ever seen a subscriber have to agree to anything other than paying the subscription fees on time for the length of the subscription.

Anyone else sense some foreboding breach of rights issues approaching?

I deleted my previous post so that I could better articulate what was trying to say... it's not good to read forums when extremely tired and working on top of it, but I'm going to try this again. As an artist's/writer's site I believe that Renderosity should be doing their part should be helping to set, or at least follow, industry standards. This site caters almost exclusively to creative people and by not compensating them for their work I feel you negate what you should be trying to nuture... that is professionalsm and higher standards with due compensation. Having done my stint in the publishing industry (and somewhat still doing it), the "exposure" line to most of us is simply that... a line. We've all heard it and sadly some of us have fallen into it, and by the end of the day most of us have heard it so many times we want to scream. Bottom line, if you feel it's worthy of printing in your magazine, then due compensation should be given, at least in the form of a MP gift certificate, though preferably cold hard cash. I'm not trying to disrespect anyone here's decisions, but honestly, by taking this money saving route you are sending a clear message to professionals and those looking to enter the industry that expertise and professionals are not worthy of compensation. To give willingly is fine, but don't sugar-coat it with implied rewards, tell it like it really is. "We are looking for free content for our magazine." Period. It is insulting to those of us that have been there to do otherwise.

I'll try to post this again: 3D World is not a small magazine, it's owned by Future Publishing, who have a rather diverse stable of magazines: http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/ http://www.3dworldmag.com/ Bar that, I'd also like to know the answers to the questions asked in this thread - ans why being published and getting paid are two mutually exclusive concepts. bookmark ~S

"The copyright concerns expressed regarding reproduction of content will be covered by our submission and subscriber agreements that incorporate our copyright policy and US Copyright Law." Hmmmm I would really like to see this agreement. On the rest of this: May I simply say that this post has changed quite a bit. Seems several Magazine head's in this thread has decided to interpret the TOS anyway they wish. This does not endear me to contribute to nor subscribe to something like this. In fact If I was thinking of contributing I would be less likely too now, simply for how the magazine head's are acting. Shrugs but no loss I assume.

By law, R'osity has to disclose all costs and conditions of the transaction before entering into one - or allow subscribers to back out after finding out without penalty. Therefore, I imagine this policy will be placed somewhere the Members can see it before they decide to subscribe; just in case they do not want to agree to the terms of the transaction.

I imagine they are going to alienate themselves from any number of subscribers and/or authors if they start putting ridiculous conditions on the subscription; that is, if the subscribers/authors choose to even read the agreement - which most do not.

How many times have we seen full article posts here from other web sites? And R'osity thinks that they will have better success at averting it? Fair Use is Fair Use, there is no way around it.

"No one has said anything negative about the 3D World Magazine." Yes, someone did. The post has been deleted. bonni