If I were a teen as young as 13 here who was just beginning to rage with hormones, I would find just the mear mention of Penis and Vulva and erect penis, and the word sexual etc to be highly arousing. So why Renderosiity would think thier TOS is any less adult than most of whats here I just don't know. Also, how does Announcing that if one wants a link to a site, they can IM the person for the URL, differ from actuall posting the URL in the thread? OKay, so the URL isn't plainly visible to all very readily. Sho then what is to stop a teen from IMing the person? THis site may be absolved in that case but actually I think not since they are advocating adults help the kiddies along the way If I have a coin collecting site and I only want adults there and therefore age restrict it? Is it therefore a TOS violation? I have said this in several other posts, Rendeosity is not, never will be and never has been a "family site" Perhaps, if there are any filthy rich members here, they would be happy to to a "corporate takeover" so to speak to get rid of all the hypocritical "big brother" attitudes and return it to the days when Art was Art and not Politically F'ed up as much as it is here. Crap, if I had money to burn, I would be glad to take it over. I would remove ALL morality restrictions. There would be zero censoring as long as it was not illegal. This of course would mean that some really off color stuff would appear but in the words of HUSTLER "We do not censor anyones views" Good or bad. Okay, so I would censor trolls though. Finally it would be corectly acknowledge as an art related site intended for adult minds that had some adult content. If I recall, this site in its current state was basically "stolen" from the original creators Are there any non mods here that remeber thos years ago. I seem to recall a few links in the webring that point to what Renderpurity would consider Adult. And how'bout those banner adds quite a few look very adult. PeteJ

Here's an even better idea....you could start your own 3d artists website and do whatever you want with it, you set the rules, etc. I would think that would be a lot easier, more realistic and to the point than trying to get an existing site to change the way they do things and do it your way.

I don't think most of the people voicing opinions on this topic are trying to get things done only their way. They are voicing their displeasure at the rampant hypocrisy.

I personally do not care what the rules are. It's their house and they can make the rules. That being said, the rules should be applied uniformally across the board, not in an arbitrary fashion.

If X is wrong then it is wrong. Being a big money maker does not suddenly make X right. Being geared toward a particular lifestyle over another does not suddenly make X right. If X is wrong then it is wrong period and anyone violating X should be dealt with in the same manner.

There have been several threads recently on this or similar topics and rather than actually addressing any of the quite valid points that are being brought up there is a knee jerk reaction to close the discussion down.

I thought DeeMarie was going to come through on one of them, but in the end she simply did what was easy and locked the thread vs addressing any of the points that were made. It's as though the points made were never even stated they were not acknoweldged in any way.

I have not been a member of this community for very long, but even in the short time I have been here I can tell that many people here have been here for a very long time. Those people are now balking at the rampant and obvious hypocrisy because they love this community. They have been here for years. They have helped people, they have made friends, they have laughed and cried with people here. I would bet that some people here have met each other in real life or they have communications outside this board, etc.

This type of attitude is what makes communities like this a success. They are speaking up because they CARE what happens to the community and the members here.

I suspect that if rules were enforced universally rather than arbitrairly that the amount of bitching would decrease dramatically. People are still going to bitch about something because that is what people do, but it won't be about the rules if they are enforced equally for everyone.

This is their house and they can do what they want. I really don't have a problem with the rules or I wouldn't be here. I would find some place I felt was a better fit with like minded people and I would go there. What I do have a problem with is the fact that even in the short time I have been here I can tell there is a ton of variation in how the rules are enforced or not enforced as the case may be.

The PTB need to realize that while it is their house, in this case, it's success depends on a whole lot of company. If you treat your company with complete disregard then the odds are eventually those folks are going to stop coming by to visit.

You could have the best house in the world, but if no one is stopping by for a coffee and a talk it doesn't really matter anymore does it?

Towal

Well, I sympathise up to a point, but really, as soon as you start going into the question of what is "proper" for this site and what isn't, you start running into a lot of grey areas, where it's hard to draw a sharp line. I would think it would be very difficult to run the site in such a way that the TOS was applied unambiguously and consistently in every single case. Personally, I'm prepared to cut a little slack here, especially when it comes to things being allowed that indicate a more tolerant rather than a less tolerant policy.

Towal, People will complain if a restrictive law is applied to them. Whether or not it is applied to everybody else equally... some folks will always try to skirt the rules, sneak under the wire, and pretend to not know that they are in violation AGAIN for the same thing they were warned about last month. And if we dare to call them cheaters, they will whine about that, too. There are merchants I will never purchase from because they do push their ads where they are not wanted (despite some clever disguises or assertions), merchants I will not purchase from because they have ripped mesh or texture from the hard work of another (even if they seem to have cleaned up their act), merchants I will not purchase from because their ads are offensive against women (or simply so tacky that the quality of the product is also questionable). This goes into more than my own purchases: there are names I recommend and names that I don't bother to mention. The PTB can apply the TOS as the mods see fit, and for the most part they try to be fair. We the community can also apply a community standard: by viewing, downloading, or buying we can give encouragement to the folks who build the community and follow the rules and ignore the ones who make a mess. Carolly

Anyone spouting the term "Family site" is plain out lying or in a fantasy world...this site is basicaly nothing more than a soft porn site, where kiddies and old men can come and whack off to naked vickies. Of course this is OK, but let someone post a link to another site, that has basically the same thing and the post is removed, then bring up the topic and the thread is locked. Let the "Powers that be keep their TOS", as more and more people leave, maybe and that's a big maybe, they'll get their heads out of their asses and things will change.As more and more sites are popping up and they have more competition, they'll have no choice.

"Flat drab passion meanders across the screen!" Sorry, that's just what I think every time I come across your typical naked vicky and most saltier images. They tend to be pretty, well, boring. Part of the issue as I see it is that there are a number of new mods/admins who are enforcing the rules differently. Some practices that had been widespread for quite a while previously are now being smacked down on. shrugs What I do not like, and will never like, is the locking of threads just because the mods don't want to talk about it any more, such as the pdjxims thread. No violations, no one was getting particularly nasty, but boom. Lockdown. If someone can't take the heat, they really shouldn't be in the moderating kitchen.

Cant we learn to get along?

This really has nothing to do with Poser as software, or how to create better graphics with the software, but is really is an issue about whether or not you agree with the TOS, which is a community wide issue. I don't think we get anywhere by demanding respect for ourselves and not giving it to other people. If we don't like the rules, we have the freedom to go elsewhere....there are plenty of websites to go around and certainly one for every taste of graphics. Many of the coordinators are relatively new, but I know none of them make decisions without it being discussed with more seasoned moderators and administrators. Even then, as we all know, mistakes can be made because, GASP, they are all human, all have lives outside of Renderosity, all have stress, all have pressure...just like each of us. Sometimes it's not even a mistake but a difference of opinion...people do disagree and can still get along with each other. Jumping to conclusions and using exaggerated rhetoric may be good exercises but hardly ever results in convincing anyone to consider a change. Been there, done that, will probably do it again even though it didn't change a thing except embarress me later on.

Many of the coordinators are relatively new, but I know none of them make decisions without it being discussed with more seasoned moderators and administrators yes, most i have not heard of prior to six months ago. how did they get picked, anyway?

"how did they get picked, anyway?" Many volunteered.

<< This really has nothing to do with Poser Actually, here, it does, because of the very nature of the software and what the third party developers have cranked out for it -- let's face it, most of the 3rd party stuff is not exactly the kind of thing you could wear on a busy street without getting a helluva lot of looks and perhaps causing some traffic accidents in the process. As long as the developers continue to sell things that emphasize T&A, then this will remain a Poser issue.

Actually it looks more like an issue with how the TOS isn't applied uniformly. Bondage, vaginas, sex poses, etc are for sale in the marketplace. But you can't post gallery images that use 'em. hmmm

rendervisions.com has the "feeling' like this site use too a place for artist! Reduction to the mean. A quality control term. Thats how the 'cordinators' were chosen. Members who had no paper trail and voiced almost no opinions- ever. By reducing to the average no one is raised up. A hell of a lot more ppl then you know, many old long time members, were voted against. "Some" even got rejection letters.

~gets ready to step into heavey poop area~ ok after the bazillianth version of this topic I actually decided to do some question asking to some legal people and business people. and I found something interesting out. -NOTE: NOT ALL THE ANSWERS ARE IN OR ONE DEFFINATE IS IN THIS IS THE GENERALIZATION OF WHAT I WAS INSTRUCTED ON- now that the disclaimer is donel... Renderosity is not just a "website that hosts art" it is a business. one that caters to not only artists but to merchants. in that the invitation to people to "come join and/or participate" is different then if it were just some hobbiest website where people come and talk. in all actuallity we are NOT just guest that have to walk on eggshells. we actually DO have rights here as members. even if Renderosity doesnt make its members pay a fee.. we -are- members and we -do- have rights to say how we are treated. a business that makes money from either the members selling,purchasing or advertising merchandise bought or sold on site actually does have certain guidlines that it has to fufill to its members. in all actually we that post work are walking advertisments for the site. that makes us more then just people here gawking. it is a symbiotic relationship and one that renderosity needs to open its eyes to and take notice and change somethings. and that the members need to pop their heads up and understand they are not -guests- but members. No not everyone will be happy with the TOS or hypocracy going on. does this mean those that are unhappy should shut up and vanish....NO. {so pretty much just stop saying that -if you dont like it leave and make your own site- that is just silly we are members and have a right to say our feelings} There IS a huge amount of hypocracy and people bring it to light to try and get changes instead of just sticking their head in the sand and going LALALALALALALI DONTTTTTT KNOOOOOOOOWWWW ANYTHING they are concerned enough to speak up and say hey this is wrong lets do something about it. if renderosity were to listen and actually take into consideration what its members are saying things would change. Change isnot a bad thing you know. and the members voicing their wants or opinions are not bad either. we are not here as a favor to renderosity...renderosity made an open ivitation {to further their sells and therefore profit margine} therefore we have rights here. .... ~sighs~ god...where is that big stick for that poor horse that is pulverized?????????

very well put DarkElegance, no we are not guest here, we do rosity a favor coming here and purchasing in the marketplace, that's where all this comes in....they feel they are doing us a favor by being here, nope, you want customers and "members", you better start listening.

So, you have "rights" as a member of this web community regardless of whether you pay for that privilege or not? And just how do you propose to "enforce" those rights with this web site, take them to court? I never said that people don't have a right to complain or even a duty to complain when they don't like how something is being done, but for God's sake, unless you know it is going to make a difference, all it is is bitching. You may be absolutely right that R'osity has certain obligations it owes its members, but, again, how do you propose to enforce those rights? I'm sure that if and when the time comes that a plethora of people are really tired of things here, they will go elsewhere, because, as someone said, there are a whole lot of other sites like this out there that have boards and also sell merchandise, so, it's not that this is the only fish in the sea, but....I don't really see that happening right now. Sure, there are a few people who are vocal and are/or have left for greener pastures. I, in addition to R'osity, also check out a few of the other sites on a daily basis - R'osity still has the busiest, most prolific community as far as board postings and merchandise. Maybe it's because they have been around longer...I don't know, or maybe I just don't see a problem because this website isn't that huge a part of my life that I am so involved in it. Regardless of the reason, it doesn't appear that they are suffering for members, so someone must be satisfied with the way things are run.

you also have to remember that when a member leaves..their name stays in the data base. not all the names that are listed as still here per se. and actually people -can- do something about it. they are providing a service. ~shakes her head~ I just can not fathom why people just dont understand it. you call it bitching but how else are people suppose to get their opinion posted? if people were cussing and swearing I could understand you saying it was bitching. but the complaints arent in that format. it is not bitching it is posting a persons views and beliefs. if rendersity were to read them and take them seriously and address them {wish they would address the lady cherry incident but no they had to tick off customers and people left and went...where? to lady cherries site. a great site I may add}things would be alot different ALOT different. they -are- loosing members and customers. but you know what they have a dont care attatude because they think well heck where they came from there is more. one day there wont be more....

"when a member leaves..their name stays in the data base" The 160K+ number given for Active Members refers to total individual members logging in in the last year. It appears the names get dropped from the database after one year with no login -- about 180 souls are waiting to be flushed next (but nobody I know).

ok nance- good information how many unique hits dose this site get?

well see this is the thing though.....my name ...I never log out. so in the past year....it should show I have been here logged in almost 100% of the time. how many are ACTUALLY HERE or just never logged out? also keep in mind some of the names are names of people that have mulitple accounts for what ever reason {no not all mulitples are for cheating or what ever there are valid ones} also it has been said many time that some names log in just to vote for a friend..how many of those are still counted that have never come back? and also how many are on the way out the door even as we speak? how many come here now just to see a friends work? or to take art trust me I know for fact their are accounts here that do that.{I have found alot of work in msn and know people that have created accounts here just to garner art from the galleries..and yes I did turn them in to msn and/or the artists} so in all actuallity how many of those numbers are active buying members? you see the same names over and over in the forums peppered here and there with a name you dont see often or a new name..but.......

*So, you have "rights" as a member of this web community regardless of whether you pay for that privilege or not? And just how do you propose to "enforce" those rights with this web site, take them to court?*No, you don't take them to court. Taking them to court is a waste of your time, your money, and the court's time & money as well. You want to get their attention? You want to make them listen? You have to hit them where it hurts...right in the wallet. And that means you can only do one thing:

Boycott.Problem is, everyone loves to 'bitch' individually, but no one wants to gather together, as a unified group, and actually make it count. I tried months ago, and failed miserably. Loads of people interested in what I had to say, only a handful with the intestinal fortitude to back up their discontent.Unfortunately, a handful ain't gonna cut it around here.Long story short (too late), Renderosity makes its money through sales and traffic. Wanna get their attention? Take them away. It's gonna take more than random bitching to get it done. And it's not gonna happen until the community gets off its collective ass and makes it happen. Period.

Rant Mode OFF

Hmm... the trouble with a boycot is that you would not just be affecting Renderosity but the merchants who rely upon it as a venue for making a living! It would be no good blaming Renderosity for their loss due to the dissatisfaction the site causes because that loss is still something that you would be choosing. Life is just complicated that way. Some battles are always loose / loose affairs. You choose the losses that trouble you least and accept responsibility for them.

The thing is if you see an item you want you e-mail/IM the merchant and ask if they sell it elsewhere or are willing to sell it directly to you and pocket all of the cash. Sometimes they even give discounts.

Its an imperfect solution that requires confidence in the merchant (that you find from many newcomers) and/or the willingness to risk a less secure means of transfering payment. Overall I think that in practice, merchants will stand to loose quite a lot in income. The risk requires suitable stakes - this site does not seem overly censorious and a degree of inconsistency is always to be expected with regard to adult material. Are we really keen to open the floodgates to anything at what aims to be a broadly inclusive community and marketplace? Matterial that is of too strong a nature would perhaps be inappropriate in this context, being offensive to many. Are the stakes really high enough to warrant that sort of action, would the result be worth it or even fully welcome? I think Life is too complicated to talk about absolute rights, or to believe in black and white scenarios - but I don't intend to stray too far into philosophy here. (at least, not without invitation)