Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/contest.ez?contest_id=281

Why do you limit it to a "small" amount of postwork? Is this an art contest or is it a math contest? Why the narrow guidelines? I think that's one lousy rule.

I think it's a "Fractal" contest. :-)

Then it should be open to fractal artists, then, shouldn't it? Or is the "art" part out of the equation?

It isn't open to fractal artists??

It isn't open to ME, and I am a fractal artist, so the answer is no, it is not.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your predicament. Please show me where it sez that you as a fractal artist, cannot be in the contest. Thanks..

It says "minimal post processing." Very few pieces of mine can be described that way. I do extensive post processing on most of my images. Therefore, I cannot enter the contest honestly, if I so chose. I apologize if I did not make myself clear.

Oh..now I understand what you were drivin at. Have you taken a look at the entries so far, in comparison? Other than that, I would IM Nick for a better clarification on the rules pertaining to you before you nix the whole idea. :-)

Yes, I have. I am not "nixing" anything, just expressing my displeasure in a public forum. I think this needs to be said publicly, not privately, because I know others feel the same way I do. :)

Well, if it's any consulation, I sure like your personal website. Many fine images you have created with your talent. :-)

Aw, that is very sweet of you to say. :) Thank you so much, Ardiva. :) I hope you did not find me brusque, I did not meant to be. I just get a little miffed at the post processing nonsense, and I fight it at every turn. :)

Well now..just let Nick know and wait until your hear a final verdict before you get too excited now, here?? :-)

Yes ma'am. ;)

Hehehe....as an afterthought.. just what kind of Fractal program do you use, anyways?

I use Tierazon and VChira mostly......especially the former; once in a blue moon I'll use UF or FE. But I am mostly a Stephen Ferguson fan, as nobody has created generators with the vibrating, otherworldly color his have. :)

A Stephan Ferguson fan...I can see that!! Excellent work!! :-)

Hello to all- I do want everyone to be involved in this community. I believe I stated that when I first started. This is only my second contest, and I know that there is always room for improvement. I have to admit that I was helped with getting the contest started, yet I knew that I would be making some future changes. I am always open for suggestions, and I hope that everyone here will be happy to make suggestions. I think the post-processing is a valid point, and one that I overlooked. Please be assured that the next challenge will have some changes. If there are any other concerns, please let me know. I am really an easy-going guy who is only trying to do his best for this community. Thanks for the feedback, Nick

Now girls...isn't he a real sweetie? :-)

You folks have a really good coordinator....The is no need to get so upset... I moderate two forums and run three challenges per month.. Most of the rules in "our" challenges are a result of me listening to the members and making compromises that work for the majority of the members.. I'm sure Nick will work with you folks on this... Bruce "pushinfaders"

I don't see any problem with post processing in the current challenge.

Well I do see a problem, Vivian. Terry, you rock. :) Nick, thank you. That is exactly what I wanted to hear. :)

wonder what this community really is, a community for fractalists or for artists ... if ya say only for fractalists, i have to go to the 2D community, for i do a lot of postwork on my images, combining 2 or more fractals into a design is an artist work, and fractalists uses formula's to produce some sort of a design ... and not everyone has the ability to use a UF or a FE program and has to do something else to get as close to what everyone produces here in these galleries ... so a discussion whether something is a fractal or not is a waste of time, and totally uncalled for ... and besides if ya have spend 24 hours of making a fractal the way you wanted it, and put an extra hour of postprocessing on it, ya have done minimal postwork ... smile

Well put, Undisclosed. :) Glad you tossed your hat into the ring. :)

After talking to him and seeing his words here, I am convinced that Nick is very committed to including all fractalists and fractal artists, no matter what tools they use and whether they use a lot or a little post processing.

I, too, agree that a discussion of what constitutes a fractal is a painful bore and has no place here or anywhere else. Couldn't agree more, in fact.

I think what might have happened is that he (Nick) picked up the rules from an old contest, written by one of those people who are obsessed with so-called "purity" of fractals; one who has forgotten about the art. Nick seems to have no problem with embracing everyone, and I congratulate him for that.

So no need to go to 2D. :) You'd be sorely missed, so don't even think about it.

M

I'm sorry, Mindy, I obviously stated that badly. I was not quite satisfied with Nick's reply. I had hoped he would state that the 'small amount of post processing' statement would be withdrawn for THIS challenge, not the next one. In many other challenges on Renderosity, the forum is one which is dedicated to a specific piece of software. The challenge is just a fun way to learn to sharpen one's technique in a particular aspect of that software. Therefore, the 'prize' goes to the person who can demonstrate that they have learned it well. In order to do that, the challenger specifies that the image should be 'pure', ie., no or little postwork, so that everyone can see how well the lesson has been learned. This forum is completely different, because the members use many different programs. If you want to use a challenge model from somewhere else, try using one from the Challenge Arena, which welcomes entries from people using any software, or even photography or writing! puts her soapbox away :)

Oh, okay. I think Nick probably decided to keep it for this challenge, as he felt to change it would be unfair to those who had already entered under the current criteria; he said he could easily change the guidelines starting next month, which I think he plans to do. I see what you are saying about the challenge in learning a specific software, but then it becomes a software adeptness contest and a far cry from the realm of art. And if you are looking to embrace a community who uses all different kinds of tools, you just don't do that without alienating a goodly portion of the contributors. Now, if this were a UF mailing list, I would probably feel differently.

I totally agree! The forums dedicated to specific software use the challenge to help teach and learn different aspects. It's just a fun way to help a lot of people at once. I have been playing a bit in the Bryce forum, and when they had the Deep Texture Editor challenge, I learned so much about that and now feel much more confident there. (I hope they do lighting soon!) I love the fact that this gallery is open to anyone using any kind of fractal generating software (and occasionally even software that doesn't really make fractals). This way, I get a chance to see a lot of different and interesting ART. I have seen the work you put into your amazing florals, and this challenge would be right up your alley (so to speak) so I was kind of sad that you felt excluded.

"Singin' the fractal blues..."

Hey all-
Thanks for all your thoughts on this matter. I do appreciate everyone expressing their views.

I realize that the majority here, uses post-work to various extents. The last thing I want to do is exclude anyone. I am still fairly new to fractal art, but I am not a 'purist'. If an image appeals to me, it's not based on 'purity'.As stated previously, I knew that I would be making changes to the guidelines. This is a community, and I am happy to be able to work with everyone here to make it an enjoyable place to visit, learn, and grow.

Also, Mindy is correct. I felt that changing the rules in the middle of the challenge would be unfair to those who have already submitted their entries.

While we're at it, if anyone has any other suggestions for challenge guidelines, I'm all ears.

Undisclosed- Don't say 2D, we need you here :)

Thanks again to everyone, I hope this helps.

Nick

Hello you all, you can ban me, you can throw with stones... But I think Digital Art in whatever form is NOT possible without postwork. EVERY artist makes postwork, because every TRUE artist is a perfectionist on his product. And the first and most important rule in art is: NO RULES ! Now you can throw me out ;-) Thank you, Kurt

LOL, no, I think we will keep you!

I carry no stones :)