Ynsaen .... well that is rather expensive! I had no idea that it would cost so much. It certainly gives me a better appreciation for a free program such as Terragen and what it can do along the lines of rendering. I had always thought that the cost of the high end programs was because of the tools, interfaces and in some cases the ability to multi-proc. thanks, BabaLouie

"I had always thought that the cost of the high end programs was because of the tools, interfaces and in some cases the ability to multi-proc." It is ... mostly it's all about development and R&D time. I would SERIOUSLy doubt that Discreet (3ds max) is payign more than $100 per license for the Mental Ray engine - probably much, much less. BTW - renderers like Terragen are usually extremely special case for landscapes... and as such don't really "fit in" here at all.

It is ... mostly it's all about development and R&D time ...And size of market. Look at the bussiness model that Daz now uses, as apposed to the high-priced figures available from Zygote or sites like turbo-squid.

I realise a lot of folks can't afford the extra money, but I would pay an additional $100 in a heartbeat in order to get a high-end renderer. Just curious, what type of renderers are used in programs such as Terragen?

BabaLouie, from what I gather programs like Bryce and Terragen use their own special rendering packages that are geared towards their unique application. Meaning, you can't customize the settings very much because they're designed to give you a specific result. You can tweak the quality of the render, and play with materials and techniques a bit to "fake" certain things, but the overall solution isn't very flexable. If you're doing an interior scene, for instance, Bryce isn't capable of doing real GI (Global Illumination) or Photometric Lighting, and I don't think Vue is able to either, so these are things you'd have to fake. So if you're an architectual visualisation artist, and your client wants to use real ergo lighting solutions for an interior scene, you'd have to turn to a higher end application like 3dsMax or 3dsViz, because lower end renderers just won't produce these results. Most of us won't ever have to worry about being THAT specific though, but just the fact that you COULD be in some higher end renderers is pretty cool. I have seen some pretty cool renders from Poser 5 (firefly), and use it myself as often as I can because I like it, but if I need to do a scene with more complex natural lighting, I often turn to a higher end program for this. Granted, Firefly probably COULD do the job if I put in some extra forethought, but it takes me so much longer to get there, and it renders a little too slow for me. Daz's renderer looks promising, but I haven't installed the program yet, so I'm not sure. I haven't seen anyone do anything too exciting with it yet, but it's still in alpha so maybe that's why.

'So if you're an architectual visualisation artist, and your client wants to use real ergo lighting solutions for an interior scene, you'd have to turn to a higher end application like 3dsMax or 3dsViz, because lower end renderers just won't produce these results' hmm well.. the Lightscape engine has Ergo Lighting.. and thats used in trueSpace 4.3 though to 6.6... (also has radiosity, volumetrics etc and a half decent modeler... but cos it's cheap ppl forget about it)

Hi, Khai. Yeah, Lightscape engine is one of the best all around. Don't know how fast it is, but I know they were the first to come out with radiosity, and seem to keep right in with the newest developments in lighting. But I think what keeps Truespace out of the hands of pros is not only it's "cheap" price, which makes some guys skeptical, but also it's big, bright, colorful interface that can tend to be very distracting. Maybe they changed this in newer versions, but when I had it, the interface was a little "amateurish", and I think many guys who do serious modeling and modeling to precise scale got very distracted by it. I don't know how customizable it is either. Just like in Poser and Bryce, the big buttons and colorful displays just take away from workspace. I think that's where Daz is going to have Poser beat.

well.. the interface is lingering ;) as to precise? well it's precise to 3 decimal places.. shrug sure is enough for me lol as to customising.. well 5 onwards uses a completely floating pallet system for the tools.. and you can 'undock' and 'dock' tool icons to make new pallets as you need.. strange thing is, while it's a icon driven program, ppl complain about that.. yet, Photoshop is a mainly driven icon interface (the toolbar that is main used all the time lol)... yet no one complains about that?

Fido13... thanks for the answer, not knowing anything about renderers, I had no idea that they were that specific. Khai ... I have TS 5 and PS 7, and to be honest, I could never get past those tiny little icons in TS. Too many and too hard to see, at my age anyway. As for PS, yep, it has plenty of icons as well but I find it much easier to navigate PS because of the size of the icons as well as the fact that everything can be docked. The workflow in PS makes better since to me as well. I just plain could not get the hang of TS, I really wanted to, but just could not manage it. :) If there has been one constant complaint about TS, that I have heard, it is about the interface. I really wish they would change the interface, if they did, I would consider upgrading. As it is now, TS sits on the shelf. :(

lol seen the interfaces for Maya Max and lightwave... and ran screaming .... you say that tS has too many icons.. those have 2 many buttons and menu's and submenus... and submenus of submenus... wish we could find away to streamline all 3D apps... but as each new feature gets added....

I have been a Truespace user for a long time, and it is a great program... especially considering it's price. I have also been a Max user for years and Maya for a while, and I can totally understand why Truespace jsut isn't used on that level. There is SO much in Max (and to a lesser degree Maya) that no matter what the task there is a tool there to help you out... from built in rigs for car's to ragdol rigs for people. And now Mental Ray. I >LOVE< Truespace.... but when the time comes to do something funky for a client I pull out Max.

"lol seen the interfaces for Maya Max and lightwave... and ran screaming .... you say that tS has too many icons.. those have 2 many buttons and menu's and submenus... and submenus of submenus... wish we could find away to streamline all 3D apps... but as each new feature gets added.... " This is true, but Max at least is totally configurable. You don't have to have ANY Icons visible, only top level menu if you want. I never used Truespace, but I know it's definitely not as flexible in the GUI area. I have used PS, and even though it's THE best graphics editor around, I'll be the first to admit that it's the most clumsy piece of GUI nightmare I've ever used. That damn floating toolbar is a pain in the ass, and you always need the thing open. As for Poser and Bryce, never used em, but the sight of their GUI scares me. This Daz one doesn't look as bad.

LOL... you do know that you can DOCK that toolbar in PS, Sinner. ;)