Attention all Poser forum members.

Renderosity is going to start making a big effort to clean up the Poser forum.
In a effort to make this a better place, we will expect all members to follow the site rules.

Please review our TOS if you do not understand the site rules

Member/User Conduct:

Members and users are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times. Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for art while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships.

Example of things that will be allowed in the Poser forum and Poser gallery

• Asking for help with any version of Poser
• Showing off what you made using Poser
• Asking for and giving advice about Poser
• Bottom line, anything to do with Poser

Example of things that will not be allowed in the Poser forum and Poser gallery

• Fighting
• Bickering
• Attacks
• Arguing
• Posting adverts
• Copyright issues (We have a forum for that)
• Anything that is not Poser related
• The list goes on, but you get the idea

Members/Users found practicing these behaviors receive:

• Deletion of the post/s.
• First event - warning by e-mail and/or IM
• Second event Forum Suspension for 1 or 7 days or Temporary Community ban for 3 or 7 days.
• Third event Membership revoked, and access to the community permanently blocked. This includes any duplicate accounts for the same person.

We have very clear site rules and we will expect all members to follow them

Again, here is the link to our site TOS

Thanks
Spike

No arguments? How about mild disagreements? (Not trying to be facetious...just want to be clear.)

It would be great if a link could be provided when a thread is moved so those of us who didn't participate but were curious could find it. Maybe we also need a refresher on what alternatives there are (and there are a lot of them). A sampler:

• OT forum for those discussions or postings that are not related to anything else.
• Community Center for postings of interest to the general community (not just Poser)
• Art Theory for those what is art discussions
• The Virtual Tavern for hanging out with pals and having a good time while kicking back your favorite brew (coffee, of course, I mean coffee)
• The Contest forum for posting contests
• The Product Forum for previewing items up for sale as well as selling them
• 2D, Photoshop, or Paint Shop Pro forums for discussing topics related to that software

Seems like if we broke out of Poser once in awhile, we'd find some interesting spaces out there in Renderosity land.

How about a nudity forum where the need to remove offensive pictures would be debated against the artistic drive behind them ? Or a TOS contesting forum ? ;) BTW Spike (and seriously now), it seems that there is quite some revisiting of what is tolerated or not at Renderosity these days... (galleries, MP thumbnails and now forums). Is there any special reason ?

I'm curious about the "Showing off what you made in poser" issue. I thought that's what the galleries were for. I can underdtand posting a pic to get advice but even that is a gallery thing isn't it?

compiler I really like that idea alot and hope that the admins and mods take that into consideration.

"No sex, no drugs, no wine, no women No fun, no sin, no you, no wonder it's dark" Turning Japanese - The Vapors Regards- Lemurtek

"Third event Membership revoked, and access to the community permanently blocked. This includes any duplicate accounts for the same person." If you know who the duplicate accounts belong to, why are they (the duplicates) tolerated?

Some people have duplicate accounts for Anonyminity(sp)... such as Myself... I have 1 other acct only 3 ppl know its Me. Thomas

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So if I post something like "WHEE I just had a new baby / dog / won the lottery", my post would be deleted and I'd get an e-mail warning??! And isn't this whole THREAD in jeopardy then? It is NOT POSER related. Poser FORUM related yes, but shouldn't it have been posted in the Forum News Forum, if the rules are going to be this strict? Also I thought duplicate accounts had become forbidden by the TOS? (Yes I have both this one and a TrekkieGrrrl one, mostly to AVOID confusion, not to MAKE it) Really I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I don't like the tone in this thread. I guess if someone disagrees too loudly with this, it's an "argument" too? Sorry... I just don't like this... Seems very... unfriendly to me :o(

I used to be with it, then they changed what it was. Now what was it isn't it, and what is it is weird and scary to me. - Abraham Simpson

Jeez, I've made a big fat resolution not to whine BUT, we need a place to go to read everything. I can see why commercial stuff and knock-down-drag-out fights are frowned upon. The Poser Tech forum has always been for the more advanced poser users (in my mind) and this forum for a more lighthearted discussion of Poser and whatever else comes up while disussing it. When the amount of people gets larger, the amount of OT stuff is going to get larger. We want more people. And we want them to talk to each other. Communication is good. I sincerely hope this is a reminder in the nicest sense and we're not going to see people starting to be shunned one "event" at a time. I have seen people that have caused "problems" being extremely helpful before and even sometimes after a "bad day". When you have all languages and cultures represented the chance for misunderstandings increases. Stuff is going to happen. Please don't start hammering people until they have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are intentionally misbehaving. On the multiple screen names thing, I don't see a need for anyone to have multiple names. Sometimes you'd like to know just who it was that said "RTFM". Sometimes, you have to be told that. It would be nice to be able to laugh about it later. Also how can there be 200,000 members if people have more than one name? How many people really are here? Oh well, thanks for the warning spike. You have been of great help to me before and don't take anything I've said the wrong way. I beleive this forum is 99.9% a good thing. There is always going to be one in every crowd.

Oh la la!... Oh la la!...

Thrice said - think they're trying to make a point? ;)

Fighting
Bickering
Arguing

Disagreement does not constitute any of those, Jackson. ;) It's how you deal w/your disagreement that does.

Also - does this mean the Poser Python Scripting and Poser Technical forums will be took down? ??

goes off to pester smitthms' other pseudo.... G

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Hey Yuri! "Have you read the TOS today?" snicker

If it isn't too argumentative of me, I'd like to know what the difference is between "discussion" and "argument." And if there's a way to find out short of a formal warning that gets you 1/3 of the way to a permanent ban...

..

Jeez! With all due respect, Spike... and I MEAN that!!... Why not give us multiple-choice forms to fill out so we don't HAVE to argue? You can't expect thousands of hotheaded artists to agree on everything? And frankly, just about any other site survives without being this stifling!

Well, I don't wanna argue Lucy but my Webster's lists the below as a definition for 'argument:' 1.a. A discussion in which disagreement is expressed: DEBATE.

Arguing is heated, discussing is not. However, the word "argue" actually has two meanings. One is "to exchange opposing views in a heated manner"; the other is "to set out a reasoned case for something". Presumably Spike only intends meaning #1, but when you come down this heavily, one has to be wary.

I'd like to know the timeframe on this "three strikes, you're out" thing. I mean, I've been a member for a few years now... even if I only get warned once a year, am I going to be permanently banned after three years no matter what because I was last warned a year ago? Is the three warnings within a month, six months, a year? I mean, I go out of my way not to be argumentative sometimes, but sometimes I do call them as I see them. Am I going to have to tiptoe around every conversation now?

Attached Link: http://www.poserpros.com

"Example of things that will not be allowed in the Poser forum and Poser gallery Posting adverts" I'd like to know how Renderosity proposes to go about enforcing this rule. It's pretty hard not to advertise when upon uploading we are urged to credit the creators and provide a link to the vendor's store, all courtesy of the Rosity software :) Or will it just be against the TOS for the creator herself/himself to post an image and credit her own product but all her friends can do it instead? Good luck!

Okay, real world example - if you're at work or in a public place and you disagree with a coworker/friend, do you: 1) (At least somewhat) calmly explain your point of view, or 2) Scream at them at the top of your lungs and call them every name in the book? Most places prefer that you choose option 1.

That's all they're asking for here.

Good: "You're wrong, here's why."

Bad: "Jane, you ignorant slut!" (2 points if you know where that quote came from.)

Cheers!

Crescent, if that's all they meant, they all they need to do is ban personal attacks. A very standard forum requirement. They don't need to ban "arguing and bickering."

Crescent: "Saturday Night Live", Dan Acroyd (sp?) to Jane Curtin. 2 points.

You forgot the nudity flag.

AHHH, NO NUDITY TAG MY EYES MY EYES!!!! What if we are arguing with ourselves?

Are we allowed to be sarcastic? How about cynical? Will the beatings continue until morale improves? Just wondering. bonni

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin, Star Wars IV Regards- Lemurtek

What if someone asks for a place to host something and I refer them to PlanIt3D.com, or we have a new article or interview that's Poser-related? Are those acceptable posts in the Poser forum or is that considered advertising? Or was the advertisement line referring to advertising products? I read the Poser forum at least once daily and I fail to see what the big issue is, for the most part everyone seems to behave as well as they can. A few posts have gotten a bit out of hand but are usually locked or deleted PDQ by the fine Poser forum staff. Considering the percentage of posts that amounts to in this forum I'd say it goes pretty smooth here. I'm just trying to figure out what the catalyst was for this "crackdown". Thanks in advance for your reply.

"People simply disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished, annhilated: vaporized was the usual word." "Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? Has it ever occurred to your, Winston, that by the year 2050, at the very latest, not a single human being will be alive who could understand such a conversation as we are having now?The whole climate of thought will be different. In fact, there will be no thought, as we understand it now. Orthodoxy means not thinkingnot needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness." Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make fore. If that is granted, all else follows --1984

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin, Star Wars IV Okay, that's just spooky. That was my FIRST reaction when I read this thread. I didn't post it, but I definitely thought it. Thing is, I think that implying that Renderosity is an evil empire is probably a violation of the TOS... And they are disturbed by our lack of faith... bonni

Ben Dover : You said : What if someone asks for a place to host something and I refer them to PlanIt3D.com, or we have a new article or interview that's Poser-related? Are those acceptable posts in the Poser forum or is that considered advertising? My reply : Personally, I'll have no issues with either, I think Spike meant like in My above example, using Myself as the target. Altho, He will have to clarify that. I apologize for not being of more help. Thomas Poser Coordinator

Oh give it a rest guys. You all sound like Bart Simpson at Sunday School. "If a squirrel is run over does it go to heaven?" "If the squirrel had an evil thought just before it dies does it go to heaven". "If the squirrel is related to an evil squirrel but never talks to the evil squirrel does it go to heaven." They stated the rules. Just work with it. Stop bickering and posting non-poser related stuff.

"You all sound like Bart Simpson at Sunday School." Hell! How can we learn about Hell if we can't say Hell? bonni

"Oh give it a rest guys. You all sound like Bart Simpson at Sunday School." Not so. :-) Most of the questions asked and objections raised have been expressed in a well-reasoned and civil manner. As just one example, read caravaggio's post, #13. Very well said, perfectly adult and civil. Nothing "Bart" about it at all. This is not a whiner's thread, at least not at this point. The problem is that Spike's reminder didn't just drop out of the sky, there HAS been an increase in totally off-topic posts here, but there's also been an ongoing problem with the way that some of the staff, sometimes, addresses the membership. It had alienated many, both regular members and merchants alike. Perhaps there should be a member-generated thread titled "Attention all forum moderators" detailing reminders that we make this site what it is just as much as they and the merchants do, and deserve to be treated like free-minded adults. Before I rant on, a brief disclaimer: I am definitely not singling Spike or any other single moderator or admin out. There isn't a single past or present Poser forum mod whom I haven't basically liked and appreciated. My point is general, and IMO valid. Lemurtek's post, #33 ... brilliant, that surmised the defensive part of my reaction as well. Although I've been frustrated by the large number of very off-topic postings here lately, it hasn't been that big of a deal. We're real people with complex personalities. Annoying though they might be, the off-topic postings are a sure sign that we ARE a community of real people, not just robots using Poser. The truly off-topic ones usually get moved to appropriate forums, anyway. Is that so awful? What's far more frustrating and demoralizing is the fact that too frequently, the staff takes on a condescending, sort of "exasperated babysitter" attitude with the membership in this forum. Instead of threatening us, maybe the good moderator folks should take a long, harsh look at their own treatment of this community, the tone that they assume and set. It's been more and more of an issue for a long time, now, as most of us know. Several people this thread have made good points about the difference between "debate" and "argument." Reasonable, non-abusive "bickering" and "argument" are NORMAL, sometimes even healthy, and above all, inevitable. The more the mods act like babysitters or cops, the more this forum is degraded. Maybe we members really do need to moderate ourselves better, but our sometimes-feisty personalities cannot be turned totally off or effectively censored. From what I've seen, the real problem with interpersonal abuses have been in the Off Topic and Copyright forums. Far more so than here. But you knew that. :-)

"Several people this thread have made good points about the difference between "debate" and "argument." Reasonable, non-abusive "bickering" and "argument" are NORMAL, sometimes even healthy, and above all, inevitable. The more the mods act like babysitters or cops, the more this forum is degraded."

Agreed (boy do I agree) and when the TOS has been used subjectively we have the right to ask what appears to be juvenile questions. I dissagree with whomever suggested these questions were juvenile. Is that against the TOS now? If a merchants name is brought up in a complaint post about their file formats does the merchant have the right to defend themselves?

Spike, I have a lot of respect for you so nothing personal but the only way you'll be clear enough is if you get rid of the poser forum, leave it at Poser technical and the galleries and then the community aspect will have truely been taken out of this site. Like Xonocastle says, disagreements are inevitable. It's going to happen. But the reason other sites don't have the problems this site has is because people are not babysat. Mods don't enter a civil but involved disscussion and state that they're "watching". Something to think about.

I usually support the staff here at RR.

This puts me at odds with some of you (so what else is new). I don't really have any great objections to a "crack down" of this sort.

I will fight over issues that I feel strongly about -- but it looks like I won't be doing any fighting in this forum. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I've got better ways to spend my time, anyhow. Soo--o-o-oo-o....discuss nothing but Poser-related matters......Poser-related.......keep repeating it over and over..........Poser-related........

No big problem here.

I can always go somewhere else if I am looking for a fight.

Nothing has been changed in the TOS, it's all the same stuff. Disagreements are one thing, attacks are another. Bottom line, Members and users are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times.

The TOS may not have changed, but clearly, the way it's being enforced is changing.

well i dont post in the forum much as i cant read an entire thread without going cross eyed and drooling alot, but shall we call this the Legume law? Seems to me that anyone with a controversial opinion, taste , style, mind, personality is pretty much in for a rough ride now that we're cleaning this town up. So for all those that disagree with me you may kindly keep it to yourself, as disagreeing with me might get you and all your alter egos banned from the community. See y'all in the galleries :-) just my 2 cents (i'm canadian so that works out to .00015 cents US).

Must I raise my hand when I have to use the bathroom? Laurie

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Poser = fun!!! everything non poser related is not permitted?????? A lot of Poser people ask for help on their system here because "this" is where the people are. If someone needs to know how to fix downloading to the wrong place problem, why is my system doing this problem?? I think it should be ok. Everyone here hashelped me and lots of others with system problems, because most of the people here are NICE people.. :o)

Laurie..... No, no need to raise your hand.... but, the bathroom is under construction....till @ least April snicker Thomas Poser Coordinator

rumble, rumble, rumble, rumble...

Sister Mary Elephant: "Class"

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Sister Mary Elephant: "Class!"

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Sister Mary Elephant: "CLASS!"

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Sister Mary Elephant: "CLASS!"

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Sister Mary Elephant: "CLASSSS!!!!"

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Sister Mary Elephant: "SHUT UP!!"

hehehe, it's a talking penguin man...

Gee, wouldnt it be nice if there was a forum where members could argue and Debate any topic they wanted? You know, so software forums (like the Poser forum for instance) would be free from such annoyances? Oh thats right, we used to have one, it was called C&D. Hmmmmm maybe the admins should have listened when the members said the arguments of C&D would spill over into the software forums.