"well if they try to say this one is OT just point at Spike and say "He started it!""

Well he did. By the way, Spike, don't you have a DVD to finish? Quit letting them make you the fall guy and get back to work. (been watching the one I have while I've been home sick so I need a new one) :)

"You will find "The compleat PoseDrek! The Semi-Animated! The uncut version!" here:
http://forums.3-darena.com/viewtopic.php?t=406
But I suggest you make sure IB washes the glasses - and whatever you do DO NOT look over the bar - he's decided he doesn't have to wear pants roll eyes"

(yay! posedrek and naked bartenders) :p

*"SHRIEK!!!

Several moderator bots look up at the scream, then shrug and ignore it as probably just another member policy reaction... "*

from Radiofree Halloween

Still my favorite. :)

You won't get any answers. You won't get any changes. You won't inspire new policies. Oh, I know that. Sometimes I just enjoy being a sarcastic pain in the neck. I regerd it as a form of entertainment to watch the antics that go on here. A while back someone asked in this forum why people come here, what they get from it. My answer was (and still is), "I enjoy a soap opera." And so I do. I don't actually CARE that much, really. I stopped caring a while back. I'm to the "Yeah, okay, whatever," point. Eventually, this site WILL lose the momentum its had, I do believe that. Not sure how long it'll take, but I believe it WILL happen. I'm kind of interested in watching it all unfold. Cynical? You bet I am. And, to be honest, I've seen it all before in many other kinds of communities, online and off. It's interesting to me, in an anthropological way, to watch the signs and see it happening here... ;-) bonni

hey now, I'm just passing through, ya'll, and dropping a few choice words. In a different forum here on this very site, I'm arguing for this sort of action to be taken. This exact sort of action, this babysitting type of thing to keep all the ugly noise and malcontent abuse at bay. It involves that wonderful subject that so many are passionate about. Now for the kicker: I believe that this policy, if enforced robotically, is wrong as all hell, although I do understand the impetous for it. Ok, so this is what they are going to do. This is what they base it on. Sounds good to me. As noted wonderfully in prior posts, 'rosity can do whatever the hell it wants to do because they own it, and no amount of agreement or diagreement is gonna change it as long as 'rosity is still the largest available market for poser products around -- something that we all made it. My question -- the answer for which only time will show -- is the manner of enforcement. I'm a bit realistic -- I don't expect them to let folks that piss them off keep posting. They might even give ole ironbear a bit o the swat (though I recall the last time that didn't work out too well...). But, as noted as well, things will keep on going pretty much the way it has been. Folks like Legume (who I miss as well) will still get booted, and there will still be small flamewars filled with all sorts of vehemence. But maybe, just maybe, this is a step in the direction that a lot folks have been begging for -- making this forum one that's a little more focused on the friendly stuff, and a lot less on calling a fuckwit a fuckit jus' cause they disagree wit' ya... (and then again, maybe it is an attempt to youthen the membership from folks that's been around a bit to the newer ones and the more apathetic ones in order to increase the number of overall sales...)

ah, dangnabbit! Allow me to amend, please: This policy as it is is being applied to this forum, specifically, is wrong. The other one needs it.

"You want access to past products - contact the store here." Err... and exactly how are you supposed to do that? If they do an IP Ban, then you will not get to the site period. If they ban by username - what is to stop you making a new account? I do not like this current trend. Frankly, the forums and the store should be seperate entities. If it were a case of forums.renderosity.com you could ban access to the forums. while still allowing access to store. for instance. But hey! That's not the case. I absolutely positively dislike the idea that warnings never expire. I'm sorry, but that is just wrong. It will punish someone who is a model 'Citizen' for 99.9% of the time, but has a total blowout every once in a while - provoked or otherwise. Basically, Member X who is a member and who has a screaming fit with someone and gets warned in say... January 2004, then has another fit around December 2004 and gets another warning and in November 2005 they flip their lid again and find themselves banned from the site for being disruptive. At the same time, Member Y who is not a model citizen and who 99.9% of the time skirts close to the edge, provokes people into huge arguments on 3 occasions in a single month and gets banned. Yes, we have one person less to scream in the forums, BUT... Member X doesn't deserve to have those warnings hanging over their head for the rest of eternity. Member X and Member Y are nothing alike - but they may both end up banned the same way, only it will take longer for one. It should be handled like points on a license. After a certain time, the point (warning) expires. If it didn't, a lot less people would be driving now if they were all cumulative.

"It should be handled like points on a license." Disagree. This whole idea of keeping files on people is utterly repulsive. On other sites the whole thing is handled informally in a relaxed fashion rather than by playing games of Big Brother.

That's a good idea on keeping the store and the forums seperate. Brad.

"How many people really miss Legume?" Me, for one. :-( The interest level of the forums took a sharp drop when he (and his wit) left. And I miss Pete (RadArt), even though he went off the rails sometimes. And PJF, even though we frequently disagreed. And my old sparring partner Virtualsite, because even though we had some epic knock-down-drag-outs, I respected him. Noticing a pattern there? Disagreement and argument is not only something that can't be avoided, it's something that has its place in a vibrant and open community. Can't say I feel too much nostalgia for Ronknights, though.

Illusions seems to be gone as well.

Funny thing... years ago rendo went through this same thing right as it was changing from poserforum.com over to renderosity... seems the cycle continues over and over and just keeps getting worse, the more commercial the site gets. Open discussions at sixus1.com and rendervisions anyone?

I think I'd spend more time at Rendervisions, Sixus1, PoserPros, DAZ, etc., except for they all use those darned php message boards. They use CSS (Cascading Style Sheets) to set text sizes. CSS earned itself a featured mention at WebPagesThatSuck.com, because it overrides whatever the user might have set his or her text size to. This often creates problems, since one size never fits all. Someone with a small monitor and low-res video card will see the text as huge, while someone with a large monitor and high-res video card sees the text as microfilm. With my 19" monitor and video card set to Poser standard, the text on php boards is so small I can't read it comfortably for long. (I'm not even going to get into the weird color schemes some boards have, like black on green.) Rosity, OTOH, uses fairly basic HTML coding. You can set the text to any size you want, just with View -> Text Size. And it's black text on a white background. (There's a reason books have been published with that color scheme for centuries.) I have to say, the site general layout is one thing Rosity does right. (I suspect I'd spend a lot more money at 3DCommune if their navigation weren't so darned awkward. All those java windows. Ack!)

"the more commercial the site gets" Oh I don't think commercial is the issue really. I knwo many good commercial sites that allow for open discussion and don't have draconian TOS's and a determinationt o turn the art community into a G rated kiddy pool. In this particular case it is that the coimmercial success of the site is convincing the owners that they can do anything they want to this forum and they will always still get the $$$'s. It will be something of a shock :)

"I've told you once." You did not!

They mean business; I've just been cited for a comment that violates the TOS. I don't know which one, what forum, or what part of the TOS I've violated (I don't swear here, post nudity in the forums, maliciously attack anyone, or try to sell anything, so the following is resolved)
I'll continue to peruse this forum
I will not make any postings here
If I see a way I can help, I'll likely IM the requesting party
Admins- I hereby grant you leave to make me an example; you're entirely free to tell the others (and me) how I've violated the policy. Folks, this is my last Poser posting, it's been fun..but I ain't down for the count yet..;) just a lot quiter..bye now..

"Illusions seems to be gone as well." Well, that figures.

Not everyone left because of the administration. Some people left because they couldn't stand the rudeness and inconsideration shown them by other community members.

"it's become quite annoying as power happy mods stick their noses into discussions and act like babysitters. sigh " I hate to disagree with you Kendra, but it's not "becoming". IB's right, this has been going on for a looooooooooooooooong time, years in fact. He's also right, that nothing anyone can or will say will make one damned bit of difference. Either you bow to the PTB, and kiss their respective asses or your banned. ANYONE (that is to say anyone that isn't a top seller) that disagrees with ANY decision by staff will dissapear.It wasn't always so, but it is now, and will continue to be so. If you want to express yourself without the threat of censor, there are other places to do so. If you want the thought police to make your online life all warm and fuzzy, well this is the place to be. Welcome to Disneyosity, where you will be happy, or you will be gone.

pakled, you're a valuable member and I enjoy reading your posts, so I hope you'll re-consider not posting here. Your post, above, is interesting. You mean, when you get a warning, it's only some generic template? They don't tell you what you did "wrong?" That's crazy! How can you avoid repeating the offense if you don't know what it is? More and more Orwellian the scenario becomes. Aschcroftian, if you prefer.

heh when I got my warning it didn't say what the warning was for either. They need to rethink their warning strategies. A few IMS got me a 'reason' which to this day still doesn't make sense... Which reminds me I should probably keep sending IMs... :D I posted all about it over at Poserpros awhile ago. ;)

Pakled, you have posted to this thread earlier, right? Well whatever you said must have been it, becourse your previous post is gone, and I guess they delete offensive posts. this is getting out of hand, peeps :o(

"Not everyone left because of the administration. Some people left because they couldn't stand the rudeness and inconsideration shown them by other community members." Actually, the vast majority of well-known abdications have been in protest of site policy changes related to the marketplace, contests, or other issues relating to administrative behavior. To deny that would be dishonest. I do know of one person who rarely posts here anymore because they feel they were demonized by fellow members, but the fact is that this person was very, very harsh on others (including administration) themselves, and didn't seem to "get it" about that, ahem. Although you may have posted your comment in the spirit of balanced perspective, which is cool, it unfortunately comes across as more potential evidence that the staff here is in denial of their own respect problem, no disprespect intended. :-)

Audrey, you forgot the rule about luggage. g

Huh???? This thread is still here and unlocked?

heh.. maybe it's just a good thread to use to keep a tally of who is in dissent... makes fo a quick list of "trouble makers" for the thought police to keep an eye out for. :)

Well folks, not that it matters to anyone but I'm outta here. No offense to the staff or management but this isn't a community anymore and it isn't where I want to spend my time or money either. Like most people I came to rendorosity for the freebies, but then I discovered the wonderful community that existed on the Poser Forum and C&D. The community eventually led me to purchase things from the store. Not that I'm a big spender so you won't miss me much. The administration here has taken the one big Poser community site that once was a place of communication and innovation and turned into a kiddy care romper room, where everyone must be nice. Now the jackboots are taking over the baby sitting. Well no thank you. I'm off to find somewhere, where we can talk about all things poser and non poser issue, where we can discuss products, stores and other poser sites in the COMMUNITY. Where we can argue now and again, without the fear of being forcebly segragated or worse because of someone's petty obsession that everything must have it's place and if its off topic you get in trouble.

I'm not taking sides because there are always two sides to an issue. But ya know, this used to be a really nice place to visit and chat and meet with friends and LEARN things. This site used to be all about LEARNING, but it lost that a very very long time ago. Save a very few kind hearted souls, the community spirit is gone. And I guess I will be as well.

LaurieA, I don't know about Audrey, but her post is gone now. I read it before it got deleted and boy was that harsh.

Harsh maybe, but dead solid true, cherokee. Prolly why it was deleted. ;]

Totally on target, oh Ursine one. Kate (off checking her luggage to make sure there aren't any disguised admins hiding there)

Attached Link: http://www.rendervisions.com

Yup, Lyrra, as Jerry Mouse once said: "c'est la guerre, m'sieu Pooseycat!" ;]

Instant Message from Shoshanna: With regards to the matter of your comment on Spikes announcement in the Poser Forum. Please be aware, that after some consideration I am issuing a formal warning to you about the poser forum post you made today (Friday 30th January, 2004.) Thank you sir, may I have another?

Instant Message from Shoshanna: With regards to the matter of your comment on Spikes announcement in the Poser Forum. Please be aware, that after some consideration I am issuing a formal warning to you about the poser forum post you made today (Friday 30th January, 2004.) Thank you sir, may I have another? snicker...I knew it! Congrats dear ;). LOL. Laurie

...there was a young boy (OK, so he was mid-40's) who discovered a MAGIC piece of software. It let him move and pose and color figures, just like reeeeaaaalll people. But it wasn't easy for him to understand, so he started a search to find where the secrets to the new MAGIC software. He looked first at one site, then at another, and finally he discovered the WONDERFUL LAND OF RENDEROSITY. Pink Ponies flew there. People were helpful and friendly. Everyone treated everyone like an adult. It was amazing. There were wonderful things to buy there, and though he often went hungry, his Poser People were very well dressed and housed. His favorite land was Forumland. It was ruled by and EVIL OVERLORD named Lyrra, who really was a very nice lady with taste and amazingly good common sense. He was happy there. But then, things started to change. Rules that were simple became more complex. HIs favorite guilds in the new world, the vendors, left without taking more of his money to go to places where they got a better cut. The EVIL OVERLORD was asked to leave, and it seemed like she took al the common sense and even handedness with her. Things got worse, as people were threatened with the dreaded WARNINGS. Some were even BANNED (maybe at the stake, who knows?). He mentioned another site, but it was a TABOO place that couldn't be mentioned, and he was made sore afraid. He'd always wanted to be once of the enlightened VENDORS, but he didn't feel appreciated anymore. So he sold his stuff at another land called DAZ. Then he slowly went away.... looking for a pink pony again. ...little jimmi wants the pink ponies and evil overlords back. ...no matter how many times he clicks his ruby slippers, it don't feel like home...

On the one hand... "Oh i used to be disgusted And now i try to be amused" (The Angels want to wear my) Red Shoes Elvis Costello, My Aim is True On the Other hand... "Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light." Do not go gentle into that good night Dylan Thomas Regards- Lemurtek

Not everyone left because of the administration. Some people left because they couldn't stand the rudeness and inconsideration shown them by other community members. ::thinking of pots and kettles:: Hey, I have to think of what to cook for dinner tomorrow, seriously! ;) Like others, I've been around this place a long time, even longer than IB, altho I've mostly lurked. (probably luckily for RO) It's a sad day indeed when we're told how to behave and to play nice for everyone. Sorry, I'm not a cheerleader. I'm just an old middle-aged lady who loves to create art. I'm blunt and I prefer it that way, and I prefer others approach me that way as well. I believe someone said in a post way up there that artists are a temperamental lot. In fact we are and we're damned proud of it. BTW, is the rest of RO getting this warning, or are the Poser kiddies the only ones getting a finger shook at them? It's no wonder I'm burnt-out lately. Sheesh.

Probably the Poser forum is the only one that needs it. Maybe if people acted like adults instead of two year olds, it wouldn't be necessary to be told to play nice. It's just an attention getting device. And pretty sad statement on the community members around here. Oh well. It's what I expected.

"Maybe if people acted like adults instead of two year olds, it wouldn't be necessary to be told to play nice." The vast majority of us do act like adults, and when the vast majority of us behave in a somewhat childish manner, it's all in good fun, and perfectly harmless. The administrative threats, expressed in the manner that they were, were not necessary. Obviously, they backfired and created more bad feelings, and in some cases, more "bad" behavior. There is no need to condescend or threaten, there are more mature and effective ways to remind the community that TOS exist for good reason, and need to be followed. There is someone, no names please, who seriously needs to take a good look in the mirror and cut the pretentious self-righteous condescending. It's disgusting and hypocritical, laughably so, and more importantly, does nothing to help the situation that this certain person criticizes. Quite the opposite. Stop posing. Let's get back to Posing.

Well said, Xoconostle. My thoughts exactly. My husband died last month and let me tell you that one realizes what's really important in life. This forum isn't one of them. My point of view was changed not so much by his death but by his suffering. Four months of the most agonizing pain I've ever seen a human being have to go through. Death was a release. It puts things into perspective. Although I may not agree with all of Rosity's new policies I have to respect their right to do as they wish with their own site. I won't be visiting here as much as I used to because some of the threads are just plain pointless, the arguing, pettiness and bitchiness redundant, and not worth my time anymore. I've been coming here since '99 when it used to be a place of learning but now it's a place of constant and annoying contention. There are still merchants here that I have always purchased from and will continue to do so as long as they remain here but other than that, I'm no longer interested in what goes on here. There are other places to visit where people are civil to one another and disagreements are just that. Where people share what they love to do and enjoy it. Sometimes when I'm reading these threads it almost sounds like the teacher in the Charlie Brown cartoons in my head. Sometimes it just makes me want to scream. Then I look over to my husband's computer which sits next to mine, I see the blank screen, usually dark most of the time now, the empty chair and know I have better places to be, better things to do with my life and my time. My browser is then closed. I have enough pain in my life without having to come here and be bombarded by more of it. And so I open up Poser once again and lose myself in it for a little while. Getting back to posing. Thanks, Rosity, for the lessons I've learned here and thank you to the people who gave their time so willingly to teach them. You will be what I shall miss the most.

Yeah, dialyn, expect the worst and you're never disappointed. end sarcasm As for the "respectful" requirement stated in the original post, well, so sorry, but MY respect is earned. The most anyone has a "right" to from me is civility and common courtesy. Respect? That costs ya a LOT more. Kate (don't bother banning me, I've banned myself)

Watching this thread with some amusement and I'm amazed it's taken "them" so long to get this far. Well, it was originally created for amusement for someone I consider "friend" but somehow it's far too suited as an opinion here. Seeing as I'm not actually saying anything, I wonder how long this will stay... and how long it'll be before I get a warning for rude gestures. Carefull people, that's a possibility you know. The thought police have arrived. Anyway, my own personal feelings regarding the "new" enforcement protocols.

There is someone, no names please, who seriously needs to take a good look in the mirror and cut the pretentious self-righteous condescending. It's disgusting and hypocritical, laughably so, and more importantly, does nothing to help the situation that this certain person criticizes. Quite the opposite. Xoconostle-thanks for putting into words what I was pretending not to say. Q-you have a license to fly that birdie? Oh well, maybe it's time to forget the forums and just come by for the freestuff. Don't open mouth, make everyone happy. Goddess forbid I use the brain She gave me and perhaps offend somebody. insert major sarcasm here

Xoconostle said: There is someone, no names please, who seriously needs to take a good look in the mirror and cut the pretentious self-righteous condescending. It's disgusting and hypocritical, laughably so, and more importantly, does nothing to help the situation that this certain person criticizes. Quite the opposite.

I have been watching this thread and biting my tongue. Thank you for stating what it appears I was not alone in thinking.

BTW, if you watch the other forums at all (like community center for example) you might notice that the ONE squeeky wheel seems to provide a lot of grease for things that happen in the poser forum.

I haven't been around for long so I don't know the history and dynamics of that, but it sure makes me go hmmmmmm.

OT doesn't bother me because I am capable of just skipping past the threads I do not wish to read. For example, I do not have poser 5 so I skip those threads as well. I certainly don't expect the poser forum to be split into P4, PPP, and P5 just because I'm incapable of skipping threads that do not pertain to something of interest to me.

If She Who Must Not Be Named (2 points if you can tell me what movie that is from) doesn't like the way things are run instead of dragging down the entire community perhaps she should start her own board and run it in any draconian way she sees fit and leave the rest of us adults to take care of ourselves here without all the unnecessary babysitting and hand slapping.

Ooo I agree about Voldemort.... :D

ding ding ding...2 points to Caly. That is currently my favorite movie. I watch it at least once a day ;)

I'm unclear on something in the ToS post as well. Are all "violations" going to be treated in the same manner?

For example am I going to get a warning for posting something not directly related to poser in this thread?

On the upside if posting OT here now is indeed a warnable (is that a word) offense likely She Who Must Not Be Named will get 3 violations before most of the rest of us...unless of course she has immunity for all infractions from the PTB.

This is a VERY UNFORTUNATE direction that is being taken by Renderosity. If I offend somebody in the forum I'm always willing to apologize. If there are some uncivil jerks, well, that's the real world and we all have to deal with it. To suddenly have to "watch what I say" and "how I say it" is not a constraint I would ever have expected to find in here. (sigh)

OK, there ARE a few Trolls out there that just delight in being horrible. But they are few and far between. For the most part a few folks disagreeing about something is no big deal. It's only made a big deal when it's blown out of proportion and heavy-handedness ensues. Then those folks who would normally be rather pleasant get irked. For some reason I'm not getting any e-bots. :D

pookah69 said: "To suddenly have to "watch what I say" and "how I say it" is not a constraint I would ever have expected to find in here. (sigh)" Ha! I would have. double-sigh It's been getting worse and worse around this place for a long time. Bullshit abounds among the admin - one wise man wondered (tongue-in-cheek) if RO has any toes left (from shooting them off). I think they've finally blown away the whole foot. I had already decided I didn't want to sell or buy here anymore, now I guess I just don't wanna be here AT ALL anymore. Fucking shame too - this USED to be a really great place before all the whining bawl babbies showed up and blew it for the rest of us. They are usually the one's who get their way too - they shrill the loudest. Why not just remove the damn discussion forums altogether if there are so many problems?? Squelching free speech and lively disagreements isn't gonna solve a damn thing. Laurie

There are alot of other forums out there that are helpful and might appeal to everyone. Two off the top of my head that I frequent and really enjoy are Sixus1's forum and also www.synergy3d.net Both really great. CheeriO! Gina

You know ..there's alot of talk in here about how this is renderositys little chunk of net space and they can do what they want....well i agree and disagree to a point. Rendo's powers that be decided to make this a public place where all types can gather and do whatever it is they do. If they dont want personality conflicts and arguments than i submit that they had bettter damn well make this a private club with a no-personality members only policy. While it is not socially acceptable for people to curse, scream and throw punches in public (at least in most places this side of jerry springer), no one who runs a public establishments can tell their patrons not to have lively and maybe sometimes loud discussions and ...gasp...even arguments about any subject they choose. And while there is always the one or two little whiny chumps in the corner who will run to managment and cry every chance they get, the majority of us rational thinkers are quite capable of governing our own behavior.