6000 quatloos on the newcomer!..;)
I don't comment on stuff I don't care for, so it's mainly stuff I like, or when I notice something historical or grammatically or spelled incorrectly, giving the works some ironic meanings..;) always tempering the criticism as something I think can easily be fixed (scaling, textures, etc.), with encouragement.
there are also those who can't stomach any sort of criticism..have had my head taken off once or twice..insurance only covers stitches so far..;)
we do develop our 'amen corners' (the Southern description of this..;), and they comment more often than not..but I'll take comments in most forms, good or bad..and you can say I suck, but ya gotta tell me why..;)

"Let's get one thing clear, the pics posted here are supposed to be "ART"...Art is subjective, meaning what one person thinks needs improvement, another may feel is brilliant. Therefore what makes one an expert, so they have the right or expertise to tell another person how to improve their pic. so basically it boils down to if you like the pic say so, if you don't move on and say nothing." Dirk..if thats the way you want to do things then fine..do it that way. whatever floats your boat. But I have noticed a few know it alls around here who seem to think that their methods of commenting and ranking are the way everyone should do it. Sound familiar? What gives me the right to comment on a artists image is the fact that they WANT comments. I'll not pass up an invitation to point out a great image, or to point out the flaws in what COULD be a great image. I dont usually comment on the crappy ones, unless someone trys to pass off photograph fakes as poser (pet peave). The crappy images speak for themselves i think LOL .

The crappy images speak for themselves i think LOL . But I think what dirk was trying to say is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What one person thinks is "crap" can be beautiful in the eyes of someone who would be happy to reach that level of artistic expression. I've seen paintings in art galleries that look like someone opened a can of paint and threw it in the air. I seriously wonder WHY this is considered art, but some people think it is. 8-)

I like good criticism, that helps me not to repete the same mistake over-over again. I've a degree in Art, but it was way before computers. This is a whole new ballgame. I can paint anything with watercolors, oils, etc. but not on a computer.:O) After reading all this I'm not going to put the check in rate box. I do think it's lots of fun to have an image in the hot 20. I use to post 1-3 images a day. I just can't do that anymore. I'm lucky to get one done. To get lots of comments on your posts, it takes writting good comments on all you possiable can, and then writing thank yous to those who comment. Now there is no way I have time for that. It's a waste of time to write thank yous. I say thank you on the post. Something I noticed, is if you dig out old clothes or hair, and even have a decent post, your comments will be lower. One of the things is promating products. I do this, but when and how I feel like. This makes some merchance not too happy, then you won't get the next product free. I have come to the conculsion that I would rather make what I want, than have strings on what I post. There are some really great art work on the gallerys. But there is also some butt ughy, awful things. I have tried giving help and it does not work. I do not like trollers or people bashing my artwork if they just don't like the subject or style. But I sure well come the people who have helped me in the past. I do what I feel in Posts, and then I have some That I post because I think of them as public awareness. Abuse, taking care of our earth, etc. Thank you if you read this. :O)

" Let's get one thing clear, the pics posted here are supposed to be "ART"...Art is subjective, meaning what one person thinks needs improvement, another may feel is brilliant. Therefore what makes one an expert, so they have the right or expertise to tell another person how to improve their pic." This is true, however, there is a CLEAR difference in 3D art (as opposed to other mediums like painting and drawing) of what consists of skill, and what is just a beginner's attempts. Unlike other mediums, 3D art is dependant on your skill and knowledge of a software program, and is more technical than emotional. Art is art, but when someone attempting to create a "realistic" image in 3D clearly doesn't know how to use some features (like pressing the anti-alias button for example, or turning ON the shadows button or bump channel, or deviating from the default factory settings such as lighting colors, or making sure the models are touching the GROUND and not hovering in mid air when they shouldn't be)then it becomes quite apparent. "being around here a while I noticed, most of the know it alls, that said this or that needs improvement, were the ones that weren't very good at this themselves." Since when does someone who critiques someone else's art have to be an expert themselves? There's no rule that says you have to be an expert to know when something doesn't "look" right. The syndrome of "well can YOU do it?" simply stems from taking offense at the blow to one's ego. You do know that most movie critics aren't movie producers. And most art critics can't paint. ;)

Turtle ... I have commented on some of your images and all of the comments that you receive are well deserved. You are an EXCELLENT artist who truly does deserve the praise that you get. Don't let this thread discourage you.

"Don't let this thread discourage you." Deecey, I don't understand why this thread would discourage ANYONE from posting their works. If people are so fearful of the slightest constructive criticism, why do they present their works for public scrutiny? When artists get their work hung in galleries, even the most abstract pieces instantly become subject to open and public criticism as well as praise. It's all part of being a published artist. :)

Yup, indeed it is. You know what a large part of the problem is? Actually, there are two ... (1) With creativity also comes deep feeling. I think that is all part of the creative process because it comes from the same place. (2) Expressing thought and feeling in writing is difficult. I can say "Wow, what inspired you to create that picture?" and it can be taken as either good or bad in writing if you don't hear the tone and inflection behind it. Artists are a sensitive lot ... and often times, if they see criticism in their comments it can be taken entirely different than the critique intended. So maybe there are actually TWO solutions to this ... (1) Create a forum and gallery where critique is welcome by the poster; and (2) Have those who make critiques PROMISE that they will try to critique eloquently and go beyond "That is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO great!!!" 8-)

Ironically I suffer from this illness as well. My adult renders get pretty high praise in the community I cater too. Sadly, people jump on the band wagon so much that sometimes I'll post a piece of crap and they say its great. I actually appreciate people who critique my stuff fairly. Getting inaccrate praise makes me get lazy at times. Yes, I can get an ego tick now and then especially when a critique is nothing more than "it sucks" but when its constructive I can deal with it way better. The other problem is that other artists who are actually doing better don't get the recognition they deserve. I have an online pal who does erotic work as well and does stuff that blows me away. We are constantly up-ing the anti on each others' renders. Sadly, since I have a more dominant name in our field, I get praise while he gets very little return, which upsets me cause I know at times he's doing way better with his work. Accurate and fair critique is important.

"I have an online pal who does erotic work as well and does stuff that blows me away. We are constantly up-ing the anti on each others' renders." It's too bad "erotic" material is completely banned from this website, since I have personally seen some work done in that genre that is mind blowing - technically speaking. But I see your point, and I know for a fact that there are some highly prolific 3D artists outside of Renderosity who shun posting to this site because of it's cliques, and sadly if they did post here, they almost certainly wouldn't get the kind of recognition they truly deserve from the community as a whole. Partly because they don't use Poser, and partly because they don't have friends here to draw attention to their work. :(

LOL Two topics for an entirely different "pet peeve" thread ... cliques and erotic art. 8-)

DarkElegance, I totally agree with you, thanks for having post this fantastic message, I wanted to post a similar one but some poser guys are attacking a lot this kind of message, they just want to hear that they are perfect in C.G.

O.O dear god I went to bed and it grew! okokok One, This thread was NOT ment to be a thread about flameing or bashing. There is a HUGE difference between the "Iamgreatandyouallsuck-itis" and being constructive. One is usually done "bitchy" "catty" and with out any true contructiveness about it. the other is when you actually have an interest and take the time to help and artist. constructive critism is not bad. it helps it makes you grow{that is if you dont have this disease} it takes the bar and ups it. "if you dont like it dont look" the thing is. if you "like it" and care about the artists you are going to take the small moment to go "this is great you need to work on the shadows/lights/texture/painting/etc and it will really make it POP" THAT is not a bad thing. that is showing them something that can make their work better. now dont get me wrong there is work here that IS great that you look at and it is like O.O the brass ring. something to strive for. "What one person thinks is crap another thinks is beautiful" true very true. but one lesson I learned as I ran into, while recovering from the early symptoms of this disease{yes..I am DarkElegance and I am a recovering from "myfriendsinflatemyego-itis"...} is that somethings in art are consistant. not just in poser art but in all art. is it style..no. is it technique? no.. is it a proggy or medium..no. it is somethings that no matter if it is abstract,realism,postmodern..anything it has certain elements.{lighting,composition,flow,etc} when working with 3d art...even harder. why? because I dont care if it is the new mona lisa of the world. you have a bad joint break..and leg that is just not naturally suppose to bend that way...something poking throug.,..no shadows,,bad light source...those are not a "style" those are mistakes that any artist can take the time and fix. that will up their work. that will help them grow. THAT is the difference between "bitchy""catty" flaming...and being constructive. Someone up there said.."turtle dont let this thread discourage you".. why would you say something like that? because I am siting here saying that if you cared and was interest in what is best for the artist you would not just blow smoke up their rear?{P.S. Turtle that is not directed at you thought I'd say that before it got mistaken for that} you would take the moment and give a suggestion? that is not discouraging..and an artist needs to know that "not everyone is going to like it" is different from someone giving constructive critism, that just because someone or a list of someones is telling you you are GREAT..doesnt mean you are. or doesnt mean you dont need to polish some skills. it also doesnt mean that a person that brings you such constructive critism hates you or doesnt like your work. after all arent they bring you advice that might make your work better? if they didnt like your work or thought it had potential they wouldnt take the time to do so. "know it all'ers" hmm...you dont have to know it all to see that if your light is comming from the left there are going to be coresponding shadows...or if that maiden is standing in a castle ruin with nothing but moonlight she is not going to look like she is standing in a studio full lit. you dont need to be a know it all to see a elbow/knee/neck,etc is bent in a way you could never get the human body. it doesnt take a know it all to see a poke through, a bad drape, movement not corresponding with other factors{hair that doesnt sway with the head and yes I know many hairs dont have that morph but you can still get it, earings that no matter how extreme the head is bending look as if they are a part of the head that will never swing or lean or sway, etc} Somethings you dont have to be a know it all to see or bring up. I agree it is the way somethings are brought up that can rub an artist the wrong way. but an artist needs to realize that nothing is always and forever GREAT or PERFECT. I like fatales suggestion. a gallery for WIPS ..where we can get together and go "great idea you have a wonderful flow going ...try this that or the other...add a highlight or add a shadow or you need to adjust your lights..etc etc" Epi has one~shivers~ and trust me they will make you look all new at your work. I submitted an older piece one that was GREAT. and someone came and went .."her eyeballs look like they are just sitting in her head" I was like huh? I poped her open and sure enough due to using a eye prop..{actually it can happen with most eyes} the edge of the lacriminal and the eyeball was rather harsh. like she was wearing a glass eye. This person took the time to stop at a single post in the WIP...pop alink to the pic in question..and actually study the piece to try and help me. that doesnt sound like someone being mean or hateful or flaming or a know it all. I would of NEVER looked at something like that. I like the idea of a WIP here. Hey MOD/ADMINS...what you say? hmm? can we have a WIP?

Someone up there said.."turtle dont let this thread discourage you"..why would you say something like that? I said that because when I first read the thread, I thought she felt discouraged and was not going to allow people to comment on her work. After I posted I went back and re-read and discovered I misinterpreted what she said - that she was only going to not check the RATING. By then someone had already posted a reply. Sheesh ...

We already have a wip.. under Gallery>Topic (scroll down menu). I was thinking more of a filter/category for pics where the artist is looking for criticsm :)

Uhm.. there IS a Work In Progress category in the galleries :o)

Ah crosspost with Fatale :o)

Er...we do have a WIP gallery. :-)

WIP gallery in my opinion is for the unfinished works. Personally I'd prefer criticsm on my finished work, so I can watch out and not make the same boo-boos in future work, but maybe that's just me ;)

ack okokok let me word that differently. a critique WIP forum..ok no a critique forum. {hey I am just geting my brain going today the pull string broke so it is taking me abit} Fatale exactly. what Fatale said~points up~ HEY but can we get an EDIT button??O.o

LOL! I wish I -had- friends to inflate my meager ego!!! I do have a great brother who is merciless in his critique (bless him!) and a Mom who will tell me Vicky's head came out too small (after I spent FOREVER on the "PERFECT" render...) In a way it's hard to take when you spend so long on a picture, you think you got it all right, and the crowd hangs up on that one tiny flaw you overlooked in the middle of the night...But I'll take that over empty praise anytime. Now y'all, go and fawn over my gallery, ROFL!!!

How about another check box underneath the comments checkbox and the great/excellent checkbox (currently mis-labelled as a ratings option) A new, third option labelled constructive criticism that flags the image and lets people know the images' creator wants real, honest, genuine feedback instead of the saccharine "That is so kewl!" bollocks

I'll get you my pretty! And your little Scones too! Heheheee....I have no idea what a Chip Butty is, but if it's has anything to do with Chocolate Chips, I'll take em'! As for this buddyitis thing. I've already been the brunt of some buddyitis bashing in the Bryce forum when one popular member posted that he could "Share" certain B9 meshes with someone else and in his post he listed AofD's Robot B9. Being the person who paid Chris to Poserise that Mesh from Jame's Murphy's free mesh, I knew this person didn't have the right to redistribute that mesh and asked him if that was the mesh he was claiming as his own. Not only was I a jerk and told to Eff Off I got the same, "where's Your work buddy" as if I wasn't allowed to question a claim of ownership simply because at the time I had no gallery here. It wasn't like I outright called the guy a thief because I didn't. I asked him if he was claiming ownership of Chris's B9. You would have thought I'd accused him of stealing the Crown Jewel's of England from the backlash I got there. Funny thing is, when he asked for an appology I grasciously offered my appology but I never got one in return for the attack I had to suffer for his petty ego!

You know, that is the best idea yet. Well done!

Rubbermat great idea!!

As a johnny come lately lurker to the renderosity creators creche, take this for what it's worth (sorry for the length)...

Disclaimer: I'm my own worst critic, I know when my work sucks, in fact I think all my work sucks, some of it just sucks less than others.

That being the case, from my perspective I would never post something in the Gallery section in hopes that I'd receive useful critiques. To me the gallery is simply a showroom/mutual appreciation society - or a place where horny netizens go for freebie online pseudo smut and cheesecake (hey let's be honest here). I sympathise with those who've been here for a while who have had a different experience in the past, but that's just what it looks like to me.

What I'm saying is, the galleries at this point seem to be just a place to look at pretty (or not so pretty) pictures - it doesn't really serve any more as a locus of craft development and perfection.

If/when I get to the point where a) I feel like I've soaked up enough of the VAST number of resources and information available out there to the extent that I truly am banging my head against the wall with some problem and can't find the solution with the handy search option above, or from googling for a tutorial, and b) actually have something worth going through the critique process - I would either come to this forum or the WIP forum and ASK for pointers/help/tomato slinging.

I don't think I'll ever post anything to the gallery - I doubt I'll ever feel I've done anything worth looking at outside a few specially interested parties, but I sure want to improve my skill,technique, craft and expand my awareness of the goodities and nicities possible with the tool. For that I'd say we're all better off comming to the forums here or elsewhere and posting for critique.

I realize this switches artists from behaving passively to behaving proactively when it comes to gleaning insight from others. I don't think the majority of people posting to the galleries at this point WANT to hear constructive critcism - they're not as bent on improving their craft, they are just in it for the attention, praise, expressive outlet, etc. And you know what - there's nothing wrong with that. But if you're wanting to take it to the next level, you'll do the legwork, you'll seek out advice, you'll find the appropriate forum in which to analyze your work. And honestly I think that's how it is in all artistic endeavors.

I'd hazard a guess that the people posting to/reading this thread already do plenty of self evaluation and criticism of their own work, even when you can't put your finger on it, you'll get a feel for when things are right and when they're not you'll seek out pointers. And at some point, some people who seem to be blithely posting up whatever it is they throw together will have an epiphone one day and realize the could be doing something "better." And at that point they'll find their way here or somewhere else where they can begin refining their work. You can beat someone over the head with "constructive criticism" until you're hoarse, but until they're actually ready to take it AND embark on the neverending pursuit of perfection, your message will go unheeded, or indeed will be rewarded with anger and contempt.

To the point of this thread - the galleries aren't what they once were, we should probably accept that and find a new way to get useful feedback in some other manner/forum.

I will now submerge back into my voracious lurker stealth mode of operation....

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=639135&Start=1&Artist=%2DAmalthea%2D&ByArtist=Yes&Fo

I was going to pass on by but I noticed how long it was Oh well (easing out the door whistling)

79 posts and no mention of the Pink Pony ! :( ;-)

:O the infamouse PINK PONY! YAY now the thread is complete!oh hhold on isnt there another renderosity cult figure? a clown~cringes as she has a fear of clowns~

Oh.. Yeah.. Creepy!

I do not have time to go through the galleries, and certainly not to weed through the promo pics, the pretty pics, and the look-what-I-just-did pics in order to find those pictures worth commentary. Feedback takes time and thoughtfulness, and it far too often is not appreciated. "Critical" thinking is not necessarily destructive! If somebody directs my attention to a picture and appears to honestly want to improve it, then I will do my best to help. I'll hand my work to friends whom I can trust to be honest. If they tell me "this isn't your best work" or "the hands aren't as old as the face" or "the proportions aren't quite even"... then I can take their compliments as true compliments and treasure them as the rare jewels they are. I'm a professional, published artist, and over the decades I have seen what happens to artists and writers who don't continually get criticism. They never improve. They never try new techniques. They even get sloppy with the skills they have supposedly mastered. We get so close to our work that we can't see it objectively. Somebody else has to do it for us. Even if I was rich and famous and had a museum wing named after me, I'd hope that there would be at least one person who could show me where and how to improve... and that I was still open-minded enough to accept the advice. Carolly

I liked the Armadillo myself, did anyone find out where to get it? Thanks for the laugh DarkElegance, need one this week. My only fear of this thread, how will it effect us who don't get many comments, maybe even less now? I don't mind a good critic. I like RubberMatt's third option. How about without nicks, no chance of being flamed by all the fans.

:) dont worry about comments. they are like friends. it is not the number but the quality. now that idea about nicks..hmm or a choice to either show or not show the nick?

would everybody like some cheese with their whine? :)

Stevejax: AFAIK a chip butty is a bread roll stuffed with fries. Trouble with having a "critique gallery" is you would need one for Poser, one for Vue, etc etc. Unless you are proposing a complete overhaul of the gallery categories into sensible ones (i.e. not by software package).

ah, so it isn't just the Terragen gallery. There's been several threads on the Terragen forum about this since I started posting on Renderosity.

Having a gallery for serious critquing on WIP and finished images is a good idea. And it doesn't have to be separated by software. Is how it's basically done on cgtalk and seems to work well over there.

-=RAiN=-

Thank you DarkElegance for giving me a "great" giggle, it was just what was needed today. There was a flurry of activity before about having a critique gallery, as far as I remember it all ended in the admins saying there was no need. Personally I think it would be a good idea 'cos when I've had a good, costructive, critique, it has usually opened my eyes and made me make changes that have worked much better. 8) Catlin

As per the "Critique" gallery... We have been attempting that over in the Art Theory Forum. Not enough takers. But if you actually want some in-depth help, I think "we" are the best place for it. Over at Art Theory the discussions have turned bloody enough times that the regulars have managed to grow thicker skins. I've said this before....art IS individual. It is the responce of a particular person, and it comes out of their internal architecture. They are their first audience and their best critic. But the moment you let that art be seen by a single other person, you are admitting that it matters how your art communicates to another human being. It is there; the learning of the skills and techniques and histories and theories to communicate your internal vision to an external observer, that critique is helpful if not neccesary.

Back to the 'itis -- In the cause of more firmly establishing myself as resident "grumpy old man"; The disease that I observe most often, with all the twisted, scabrous results it inflicts on poor Victoria particularly, is "chaircoveredwithglue-itis." This infection, of which the primary vector is a refusal to look away from the computer and open one's own front door once in a while, manifests such symptoms as horizontal forests, ball-and-socket elbows, "Cabinet of Dr. Caligari" architecture and a dress code that goes WELL beyond "Casual Friday."

Ok Nomuse! You need to stop peeking in my windows there dude! My casual dress days are none of your business! Now everyone cough up your scones and Tea! This is a stickup!

SteveJax.............a chip butty is a sandwich which contains french fries. 8P

sorry did not read all the posts yet, just answering darkelegance : so what's your point ? should we give up using/posting the galleries ? for me, gallery's use is what you think it is. no more no less. So far the only two uses i found in gallery posting was to discover people's work whom i would never had the odds of browsing by mere luck without them leaving a comment (and so chat with them to learn from them, as so far all people who commented my work wre really skilled, compared to me... starting from ground level though so it is easy :) second use is to put on myself some challenges of skills/tricks to learn, and post the result to see if i am making progresses. also 3rd use is just to make low quality but nice pictures (in other ways, such as humor/joke) i had in mind... if one believe gallery and gallery comment are good for anything really serious then good luck for them ! anyway, dark elegance, now you put your point, just tell us what should we do ? have any idea/solutions ?

I see that I am going to have to be the one to clarify this. In the 'great' world of acronyms such as; FBI, CIA, USA...and TGIF to name only a few, GREAT is only used in the art world and is actually a negative comment. [GREAT] = Gawd, Re-do Everything And Trash! I do hope this will not spoil the good feeling of those folks who have always believed they were getting 'great' compliments on their work. PS - Anyone who takes this post seriously, please don't flame me. Just go to my gallery and comment GREAT on all my work, please!

French Fries inside Bread? Are you just Trying to clog my arteries?!?! Sheesh! They're hardening just thinking of such a thing! LOL! Ok, Now you've done it! I want everyone's Chocolate Chip cookies on my desk before the end of class today! Anyone leaving apples will get a failing mark and a GREAT comment on all of their gallery images!

Hehehehe...................8P

no no no a chip butty is a sandwich made with HUGE honking chips{what we call steak fries in the usa} and butter usually or salt and vinager. or...both. yes the english like these {really not bad at all} and for some reason they have amystical power over their they eat alot of fried things and have less heart disease then we do. ahh but I digress. what do I suggest? well one thing is being nice another is blowing smoke. the second does no one good. if you care about an artist. then if you see something wrong with their work. I mean not something that is just their style but lets say a bad joint..bad post work..bad lighting, no shadows, poke through...etc..etc....say something! telling them they are great all the time does NO ONE any good. I dont think ANYONE is renderosity likes making bad renders...ok well I do for spoof but I am nuts. anyway.. I think everyone wants to learn and improve...so why not help them? just because someone tells you you are great all the time..doesnt mean they are your friends of have your best interests at heart. and just because someone gives you creative critism doesnt mean they hate you ...after all arent they telling you how to do better? think about it;)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=640736&Start=1&Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=0&WhatsNe

just remember number of hits..doesnt make it quality or lack there of; number of votes doesnt mean it is great; hot20 doesnt mean you are hot or the best{pinkpony!}; and number of comments can be like friends...not the number but the quality that counts. Well said. 8-)

floating ovation