Sorry guys. This horsewoman is not impressed. In 5 minutes I found several large problems. 1. Rump is higher than withers so the poor thing looks like it is perpetually running down hill 2. Foreleg has this really strange and an unattractive bulge when bent 3. Neck has an odd crease when bent up into any sort of reasonable head set for a non-quarter horse 4. The morphs do not look anything like the breeds they purport to be (the poor shetland looks particularly bad) 5. Symmetry does not work on the Milhorse making posing a lot more dificult than it needs to be. On the plus side the textures are nice, the neck arches nicely, the poseable ears are good as are the mouthparts and the foal is actually very well done. But I'm afraid I'm going to stick to the P4 horse - it's actually nicer looking when posed and with the morphs available from Lyne and bloodsong

Now if DAZ could just hire Lyne & Bloodsong to fix their horse, all would be right with the beast finally!

Maybe they should try beta testing, I'll wait for the "other" new horse before I buy.

Actually, they did have lots of beta testing, I wasn't involved (I only made the free horse shoes), but I got all the many updates. While not a horse guy (I like 'em, though!), I did especially notice # 2 and #3 above, I suspect there will be a SR1. ;-) Horses are tough to do in Poser, I ran into a lot of "I don't know how I'm going to do that now" when I was working on my own horse. I think in some cases DAZ did the best the state-or-the-art allows. Symmetry DOES work however, as long as you use the right to left or left to right one. I think the leg and arm symmetry works only on P3 named human parts, it doesn't work on Vickie's buttocks, either!

I tried left to right symmetry and it did not work. That was actually what I tried first.

Thanks for the review. I still haven't decided if I'm going to buy the horse or not. None of the images posted so far has been made me want to get out my credit card.

Okay, correction - Left to right or right to left symmetry does work but swap left and right (which is the one I use the most when posing horses) does not

I am not saying he doesn't have potential. Fix the neck thing ( the wither/rump thing can be easily fixed by lengthing the front legs a tad and the leg bend thing can be worked around especially if you modify the limits of the elbow bend) and get some decent morphs and he could be a real knock-out. I'm just saying that my intial impression was not the most favorable. But then I have been spoiled in that I know exactly how to get the best out of the P4 horse and am going to have to start from scratch with the MilHorse and given I can get the results I want with the P4 horse...

I'm so glad I read this. I've added the mil horse to my cart but then I thought I'd wait to see what all the experts had to say first, so I think I'll now wait on that SR.1. 8) Catlin

I've never had much luck with the swap left and right symetry on Vickie, either- to my mind it should mirror rotations of center parts too(head through to hip) too, which is doesn't. Anyway, I went out and bought the full version of the horse (I had the betas), this is my first render with "proper" textures. I scaled the hip down to 90% and the abdomen to 95% in Y. I also darkened the texture and added my own reflection map (set to 60%). My pose, too. Sorry about the nudity, but it is supposed to be Lady Godiva. ;-)

Jim, Even a black horse on a black ground doesn't hide the problems. Whithers? Pasterns? Knees? All those muscles where the fore-leg meets the body? Pah! I'm not interested in whether the horse can twirl his ears like a burlesque dancer and her tassels or even whether he can appear on a talk show! I want a horse with good sound conformation and breed suitability. Since I own the Charger and the P4 horse, I'd need a very good reason to buy this one at any price. At the premium prices, this beastie has to be a major step up from the others available. It isn't. The Daz Eagle and Dragon were expensive when I bought them, but they looked and moved right out-of-the-box, and all the morphs and textures just made a good thing better. In this instance, all the third party folks will be working to fix a fundamentally weak object. It shouldn't need fixing. For a freebie, we know that we'll often need to do repair work or conversions or rescaling. For a premium-priced mesh we expect, not perfection, but something which doesn't go lumpy when the head is lowered or cracked when it is raised within the natural limits of the animal. Furthermore, before marketing those morphs, somebody ought to have looked at the breeds in question, and, gasp, maybe read something about the breed type. What makes an Arabian an Arabian? Or a Shetland a Shetland? The morphs won't do for ANY kind of horse... not even the emaciated one. Carolly the Unimpressed

I like the new horse model. I think the mesh creation process is limited when it comes to the animals...but I have no morph creation talents so I have to rely on twisting the dials...but I found this new model great to work with. different breeds have different structural ratios...shorter cannon bones, longer gaskin, deeper hip, longer neck...there is a real potential in the new mesh...and the textures are great. extended and collected extremes are still going to take some twiddling of the dials and there is always going to be some post needed for the muscle tie-ins but overall this new horse is well worth the price. The textures are great...less post is needed... here is a no post work look...

I am fairly unhappy myself with the horse, for the reasons that Daio mentioned earlier in this thread, especially the hind quarter being much higher than it should be and several spots and bulges where they shouldn't be. We had a percheron and the draft horse just looks deformed, not like his real world counterpart.

I have never asked for my money back at Daz before, but I might actually do so this time. I should have waited, but I am a stupid impulse buyer who can't pass up a deal to save his life. :) $28.95 wasn't too bad, after the sale, the platinum club, and the voucher, but not if I can't use him for anything except poses where you can't see much of the problems. Though maybe an SR1 will come to fix some of these things. It would seem to have to be quite a fix though...

Also there is a strange texture problem on one of the tails, where it is half transparent and half not. Not sure which texture it is is, but it looks awful.

ShadowWind

Does it come with mimic and morphes for Mr.Ed?? A horse is a horse of course of course...... Geeeeee Wilber...why can't Vicky sit on me????

I use to own a horse and loved him to death...but I have to admit, I think these images, especailly Jim's are striking. Sharen

i havent bought the horse yet but has anyone seen any poses between millenium man/woman figure and the horse?

I had a horse called Blitz, back when I was a kid and I adored him. If I could make the mil horse look like him I'd be over the moon 'cos I don't have any pics of him since I had a fire in my house a few years ago, but he lives on in my mind. Catlin

Carolly- when my horse was in the works it was going to basicly be an Arabian, so I did get an idea what they look like, and you are absolutely correct. I actually did my own Arab head morph for this one, I was going to give it to DAZ, only it was on the beta version and they later changed the mesh. wrpspeed- Lady Godiva above is being played by Ingenue Vickie, who started out as V3, bear in mind she is very small, 5' 3" in flats. I did have to sort of give her a "wide stance" to get her on. The horse is about 16 hands high, I think, but I haven't actually checked.

Well, I will freely admit I'm going to be pickier than most folks who are likely to buy the MilHorse. I spend 2-3 hours a day, every day, with horses, and have been doing so for close to 35 years. I've also shown, bred and judged horses for 25 years or more. I may not always be able to put it into words but I know how a horse should look, how the joints should bend, etc. and the places where the MilHorse doesn't conform to my mental image of 'horse' really bother me. I may take my camera out to the barn tomorrow and see if I can't get my horse (he's an Arab Stallion) to pose in the MilHorse default position so I can better illustrate what I mean. I am recreating all the basic poses (25-30 or so) I did for the P4 horse for the MilHorse. I should have them done in couple of days. They won't be perfectly tweeked but they should provide a good starting point for anyone who wants to refine them further. And, yes, like the P4 horse poses they will be free.

Daio, Thanks once again for the wonderful generousity! I have to say that your horse stuff and what you can do with the p4 horse is amazing. That being said, I think you are being rough on the pour old milhorse, having seen some of the earlier meshes of him and seen some of the serious issues they had to hammer out, I think he's pretty doggone good. Yes the withers do seem to slope, but I think they can fix that...I think they overcompensated for having withers that were way to too high and pointed in an earlier mesh. as for the problems of they horse not looking axactly like all the breeds, I think you could cut them a little slack. Not all of these modelers have really seen horses and can't pick out the difference as easily as people that have been. They were working under a tough time table and trying to do such numerous breeds with such diverse characteristics is very hard I would imagaine. I was suprised that they even put in a shetland morph seeing how very different they look from a horse. I'm sure they take some of this feedback into account and so some updating, but for right now I still like this better than the p4 horse if just for the expressions of the face.

As I said Lunaseas, I am going to be pickier than most people. :) As a horse judge, I have to say that good basic conformation is the same reguardless of breed. And while I don't expect them to get the morphs to look like the breed standard, I do expect to be able to recognize at least some the of the breed characteristics

I am not sure that there can be "fixes" for the main issues with the conformation and anatomical workings of a horse in general and the "boning"/mesh issues relative to joints of the horse (my modeling skills are very minimum but I am understanding the modeling issues are very much a challenge). I fear that there is always going to be the need to morph or post around the shortcomings of the mesh...however, I would be happy if this is not so. Even bloodsong's heavy horse has many conformation problems...but the Mil horse seems to be a great addition ot the "horse" inventory available. I am impressed by the mapping and what they have provided, the foal, the maps, morphs etc for the price. For the general horse it has some nice extras, trans maps, details in the mesh and on the texture maps, as is usual I am sure there will be more to come. This community has many talented modelers, morph builders and texture artists... I feel my experience leaves me with the idea that it is relatively intangible aspects of the horse that the artist has to add from their own experience, you put it into your work as do others who have a special connection with horses due to experience. We used to only have the p4 horse, then we got the charger, the heavy horse and then great morphs and maps. The mil horse produces a great render in my view and will allow some great results for those who may not have a special connection with horses that years of experience provides. My personal experience includes about 40 years of horsey stuff, as substantial portion judging and training different breeds mostly specializing horse and riders in versatility, so I had horses of many different breeds who had to learn to maximize their anatomic resources to perform as western, english (hunter and saddle seat), halter/showmanship, trail, western riding, jumping and cart. From this background I am still finding that horses require some concentration to get the best out of them including the poser horses. As in real life the challange for the "perfect" body will go on, but it is the horseman who brings out the best with what we have to work with....and that is a challange for the artist as well. I think your comments are valid and will help the modelers create better and better models. Overall, though I think the mil horse is well worth the investment. Again no post example'

I think you are right, Lorraine that for the vast majority of people the MilHorse is an excellent investment. I don't expect that most people will notice or even care about the details that bother me. But they do bother me. :) . It's not a bad model at all especially sculpturally - much better muscle definition than the P4 horse ever had even with morphs. But as far as realistic posing goes, other than the facial expressions, it is not really an improvement over the P4 horse

Daio, I know what you mean....those backward bent pasterns in some work are my pet peeve..grr it just a personal thing..:-)...

I'm not qualified to make any comments on the conformation/breed comments - but I do like donkeys.I see there is a donkey morph. Could anyone possibly post a render of the 'stock' donkey morph ? I'm interested in seeing whether it LOOKS like a donk, or just a 'tweaked' horse. That will decide for me whether or not I shell out for this model

Thank you all for sharing pics and comments on the mil horse! Along with the DAZ forum posts/pics this has helped me make my decision. I will stick with the well-morphed P4 horse and Charger. I admit I am not motivated to purchase in the hopes that someone can add fix morphs to this horse, and I admit I am one of those "picky horse people". Curious - the P4 horse does not really "graze".. does this one? (graze-head down to eat grass)

I absolutely agree with you Daio. I had virtually the same reaction when I first saw the horse. My father raised horses. I've been riding horses since I was about 7 years old and breaking and training colts when I was 10:) I don't judge horses, but have certainly been around them enough to know what looks correct and what doesn't. I too will stick with the P4 horse for now. Maybe Cubed will generate a more anatomically correct horse.

Actually that was the first thing I did with him, and he even has a pose for it, from Daz. He does graze better than the P4 horse, at least getting much closer to the ground. I suppose if he ate high grass, he'd do pretty well and not starve like the P4 horse who is always begging for hand fed hay and sugar cubes. :) And you are right in that his facial expressions are so much better, which would make him great for portraits or things of that nature. I think it's kinda like the freak versus Mike. Weren't they both the same mesh, only seriously changed? I think having a regular horse and a draft horse from the same mesh would have made more sense than a morph which seems to activate several individual morphs that don't seem to come together quite right. So he does have potential I see in playing with him a bit more. I wonder though if they will do an SR1 to fix the problems Daz mentioned. ShadowWind

Er Daio mentioned, sorry...it's late...

Can I echo the request for someone to show us the donkey morph. Although I was originally impressed with the pictures of the TEXTURES, I am beginning to wonder about the mesh - the above mentioned conformation errors are surprising in a figure from Daz. Surely they had some real horse pictures to work from! Any piccys of the morphs would be great, I want to be sure that I can actually use this before I reach for the credit card. I do like them textures....

I am sorry I am not seeing the great faults as such "great" problems, the p4 horse just needs post work to look right...maybe it is the difference between personal preferences in horse confirmation.....Moonrose map on p4 fully loaded with morphs galloping next to mil horse...(re sized only)..

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1748813

Link is to a thread where EdW posted an image of MilHorse in "graze" position. He points out that his morphed P4 horse grazes just as well, and I have to agree. I really don't like the neck on this model.

Randy's link also has HaiGan's shots of all the breeds and the foal. :( On all three of Lorraine's pics, the extended front legs look like they are telescoping outwards. Sorry, still Not Impressed, Carolly

Lorraine, would it be possible for you to post both horses in several of the same poses (stand, trot, canter, graze), without a texture map? The texture maps on the new horse are outstanding, but because of the quality, the maps hide defects. I'm hoping that seeing the horses side by side without the textures would be a more objective view.

Sounds like everyone likes the texutures. Maybe they should convert the textures for the P4 horse!?

Here are 2 images. One without texture and one with. It has Movidas arab head morph and a few other tweakings with the dials. It is modeled after photo of Pharoon but with different skin.

Second one with texture.

Oh, I forgot to say that I really like this MilHorse. :o)

This is the kind of thread that makes the forums worthwhile. I was in the process of putting the horse in my cart, to see how much it was really going to cost, as my $5 voucher deadline is approaching again. This thread, and the linked one from EdW, convinced me that I don't need to waste the money.

I don't know horses, but I know who does, and if DAZ didn't have the sense to "beta" their horses with someone who has her level of expertise, that's their loss. I do know dogs, and I spotted the gross problems with the MilDog before I bought it, then discovered that they were the tip of the iceburg. The same complaints: The breeds would never pass a marginal AKC standards check, the body works in weird ways.

Re the latter: Someone posted a "pooping dog" render immediately after the release, and the dog's back doesn't even arch right for something that basic (basic, but not especially necessary).

Anyway, thanks for the information I needed to make an intelligent decision.

M

Looks good Tiny. How did you get his backside down to the right height? And what is Movida's morph? ShadowWind

Bottom line: When you're paying $45 for the bundle (It would seem the textures are highly desireable), extra morphs and tweaking shouldn't have to be done. I purchased the dog and had some regrets afterward. Even the cat is lacking. Maybe the expectations are too high, but for plain vanilla 2d work at the hobby level, spending this kind of money for a horse when I already have a horse doesn't make much sense.

Here you have the Poser4 horse straight out of the box, & the Mil horse, straight out of the box. Cin's ProLights, Stark.

Here you have the Poser4 horse Posed, & the Mil horse, straight out of the box. Cin's ProLights, Stark.

included bundle Pose for Mil horse, Cin's ProLights, Stark.

Included bundle Pose for Mil horse, Cin's ProLights, Stark.

Tiny - the version you posed looks much more like an Arab than the straight morph included with the MilHorse and the texture makes an amazing difference. The textures, if I haven't said, are great - I've got no complaints at all in that area. The MilHorse may grow on me - what I posted were my initial impressions. The neck/shoulder thing still bothers me and it will definitely take some tweaking to get a conformation I'm happy with. But then it took quite a while for V3 to grow on me too.

freyfaxi, there is a popup on the horse promo page at DAZ showing all 'breeds'. The donkey is in contention with the Shetland as worst of the lot, possibly just ahead in fact. No, it looks nothing like a donkey. Lyne's morph for the Poser horse a planit3d is much better. John

That first image of the P4 horse in post #42 is hillarious!:) Along the way, the P4 horse has had a lot of help from a number of the people who have commented here and as a result is much more useable. Because of those efforts, "starting over" and then waiting for problems to be corrected with the Mil horse doesn't make sense to me, especially since the P4 horse was included when I purchased Poser. Maybe I too will change my view once the updates for the Mil horse are released. Time will tell.

Attached Link: Daio MilHorse Poses

I finished my set of MilHorse poses - you can find the link to download them in this thread: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=1751976

I saw that promo pic on the morphs at DAZ, and I wasn't all that impressed with the donk. What I was hoping for is a render of the donk on it's own, at a decent size, so I could get a better look. The head just didn't look right to me.

I did an Arab head morph for the mil Horse and also a "bye bye roach back" morph and emailed them to people at the DAZ forum because I won't have my webspace back up until the end of the week :( Anyone who'd like them send me an im with your email but if it takes me a day or so to email them both to you please be patient. Crescent had said she might host them also but I don't know if she's had time yet. They're .obj's and you have to load them.