Attached Link: "So where to now boss?"

Well, maybe I shouldn't have written to Curious Labs with my fantasies about what Poser could be. In times like this I think about George Lucas, and what he was trying to accomplish with his first Star Wars movie, and how some of the special effects didn't come out like he had planned them, blah blah blah 20 years later...dream fulfilled...millions of dollars....yadda yadda. You see, my teachers in school mentioned a few times how I was always daydreaming, and maybe my imagination does run away when it comes to intersecting it with reality. Warning:Incoming Anecdote....take cover immediately!!! I have been playing video games off and on since Pong, and finally in 1996 I decided to fantasize some more, thinking "If I could make a Virtual Reality Game/Simulation/Universe, I would make the blasted thing like ...." I still remember the night driving home from a temp job with the ideas pouring through my skull, thinking "Why am I all of a sudden having all this crash down on me right now?" I started banging away on a 486, making a design document and preliminary sketches, and now, 4 years and a few thousand dollars later, I have finally been granted a patent for my design. So what? I'm so independent-minded, that I didn't really consult with talented 3d people like so many of you are, and I shopped around on my own to grab some 3d stuff to throw together a demo to sell my invention, and ooooops....I let my expectations jump up there a bit. (Unit Zalmegra1...Prime Directive...License or sell invention to major corporation.....Failure not optional......) So yes my rambling has its reason and it seems a few of you, perhaps younger folks post replies with just a tad more emotional content than is necessary, but that's ok. Everybody has their own thing. I still use poser all the time and I realize I should just attempt to become a "Morph Master/Monster?" and, like the proverbial virtual plastic surgeon who "improves" on the Poser gods creation.....Live long and prosper. "Doctor: I think I took an overdose of Humor....now my face hurts....Yeeeheee heee haaaa......" Pose On, Dudes

Younger??? I'm 35, you? Just for the record, I enjoy this kind of thing, though like many before me I prefer to work before a "live" audience :) later jb

I'm 46, and I don't feel I was being emotional about the subject, just stating facts. I checked your site and it appears that you are in fact bashing Poser when you should be creating your own textures instead of complaining about "shiny plastic skin". Get the manual out and do some basic reading. Marque

A wishlist is nice, but don't forget the manhours required to make everything happen. Will Wright dreamed up the basic concept for "The Sims" several years ago, but it hasn't been til recently that the technology developed to a point where the game could be a reality. No man or small team can do it all.

"Having to make excuses to clients because of the limitations of my software isn't really an acceptable option for the type of work that I do"

So STOP MAKING EXCUSES. All a customer is interested in is the FINAL product. No one cares whose fault it is, if it isn't up to specs, then it's unacceptable.

"When I show my work to people, sometimes they make comments about the figures or objects not looking real. Well, my answer to that is this; It can be very time-consuming and expensive to get texture and volumetric maps that fit on models-especially human/organic models that look realistic."

One word: Post-production!!!

"but for now I have to be content with my images the way they are"

Again...post-production. Making excuses does absolutely nothing to make the image any better

"Keep in mind that when someone is forced to use a lower-level graphics program i.e., under $1000 US dollars, the default models are pretty well going to look like shiny plastic to start with"

Why should I keep that in mind when I'm buying a T-shirt? I'm interested in the FINAL product, not your love-hate relationship with your tools. Why would any skilled person use the WRONG tools to develop a product. Blaming the tools is extremely unprofessional.

"Until I am able to afford higher-end programs or utilities for the skins, the models are simply going to look very much like toys."

So why should I buy your product now--why shouldn't I wait until the models in your image look less toylike?

"So before you criticize too harshly, just remember that trying to make something on a computer that looks "live" can be a very complicated endeavor"

But...it can be done, and it can be done WELL! If YOU want the credit for a particular piece of art, then YOU need to take responsibility for it; instead of putting the burden on the critics or the software companies.

"and those of us who don't have deep pockets have a harder time getting our "toys" to look good."

Okay--now the blame shifts to financial limitations. If you're trying to sell yourself as a professional artist, then you'd better be prepared for the business expenses (or the time required to clean up the images)

"Just thought you could use that information"

As a potential client--that disclaimer should save me a LOT of major headaches.

While the term "masses" is an often used phrase to discount common ordinary people who are, on close examination, neither common nor ordinary, in hopes of creating the illusion that non-mass people are "better" than mass-people. Nothing personal, but this term is BS and reflects poorly on those who use it.

Lamer alert posted. =)

scalpel & DS3KAD: Thank you for saving me the trouble. My favorite was "Or does your design team lack the talent/funding/direction/management...........something? Please bear in mind that I'm not making personal attacks on your organization". Talk about milk up my nose. zalmegra: Writing to Curious Labs wasn't a mistake but the TONE of your WORDS most certainly was. If you ever post here again, apologies all around would be in order. Like marlon2000 I'm starting to like you, but that 'bull in a china shop' thing gets old real fast. Speaking of which I'm prolly as old as... never mind.

I doubt any words I use will make much difference after this hole I've dug. Now that I've been branded as pompous, sarcastic, hypocritical, boorish, self-important, lamer, etc. It would be wiser to just stay out of sight for a while, and let my posts fade away into obscurity...I'll understand if you don't care to read this. Peace to all

I have no reason not to read this, I am just sorry I missed the whole discussion. Although I would always object to be called one of the masses, since I am not (I am way more common and boring than the average man), I do agree with the majority that some things in Zalmegra's letter are way out of line. But I have seen it before. People that write to software companies in many cases forget that you are talking to companies here. Companies have one goal: make profit. That's reality, and if that means they will not incorporate every suggestion that is handed to them (and in most cases that is exactly what it means) tough luck. Then don't buy the product. In 99% of the cases the developer WILL make the product as THEY see it. Feedback from users is very helpful to create ideas for upgrades, or simply to know what things a user would like to see. Some things they will adopt, most things they won't. Like upgrading/enhancing the elbows and knees on a basic Poser/Posette figure might seem a small change for the users, but it's a hell of a job for the team. And since the Poser Policy probably is to stick with the cost - retailprice relation, things that will make that retailprice go up will not be made. Soooo...either make the changes you want yourself, or use another piece of software. As I said, suggestions are always welcome with any softwaredeveloper, but don't expect it will actually be used. Most people have no idea what it costs to develop an extra feature and I bet the people that run Curious Labs do.... The Engineer.

I forgot the conclusion! So Zalmegra, I don't think you are "pompous, sarcastic, hypocritical, boorish, self-important, lamer"...I do think you have a bit unrealistic view on how things work in software development. And uhmm..well, a few lessons in tact and writing style couldn't hurt :) The Engineer. "The best way to communicate with the black boxes called software developers is understanding their problems and trying to help, not to nag."

Zal, a few points. 1.) I am not one of the masses. I am a mass in and of myself. 2.) Though there were a few points in your communiques to Curious Labs I tended to agree with, I thought you came over as a bit heavy-handed. So, maybe we should play the good cop, bad cop bit at this point. 3.) I do think we need to realize and understand the price point market Poser has always been targeted at. Though there are things we would all like to see in Poser that are available in products like Lightwave, MAX, etc. perhaps we should think that maybe that is why Poser costs what it does and LW and MAX costs what they do? For what it offers and with a bit of post-production work (which you still have to do with LW and MAX also) Poser is a helluva deal. 4.) Do I think you are a lamer? Nope. Like I said, perhaps a bit heavy-handed, but what the heck. Compared to some of the posts in these past few weeks your's came across downright diplomatic. 5.) Should you "...stay out of sight for awhile... ? Heck no. At least you didn't insult or name call another member. You may have been a bit heavy with Curious Labs and pushed a few of the wrong buttons, but, like I said, I didn't see any name calling or outright insults thrown at anyone. And it has provided one of the livelier threads here for a while. 6.) As for age, well, if I may paraphrase a character from Babylon 5, the best television science-fiction show ever produced, "No, I am not ONE of the First Ones. I AM the First One." Take care and Godspeed.

heyas; yer okay, zal. you asked in one of your previous posts if you were going overboard. yeah, you're going overboard. :) we all have dream-applications ... and dream-computers... and dream-jobs... (etc!); and many of us have, at one time or another, written to a company about a product we really like to suggest further improvements. but when you brought it here... and the follow-ups... well, started looking like you had a big chip on your shoulder, like you were complaining that curious labs didn't accept your suggestions. and then some people might've taken a big of umbrage at that, and gotten defensive like you said something bad about their favorite program, here. anyway, what's the point? i think we covered all sides, so let's move on. if you have any questions about how to improve your poser images/figures, etc, let us know. :)

It's been really fun to see how people respond. Makes things more lively, heh. Been studying too much psychology and philosophy, I guess. I've always liked pushing people's buttons, to see how far their belief system drives them. It can make all parties involved grow as individuals. My paltry 30 years on this planet has shown me that with all of our differences aside, the ones of us who don't actually maim and kill each other over the small stuff might help the trigger-happy ones along the road a bit. Not really sure about that, but, anyways that's suited for an entirely different type of forum. I'll stop picking brains for now while everyone goes back to what they were doing :0) Peace to all.

off topic but the title of the thread is thought provoking...it occurred to me a few months ago that people who were once called "prophets" would now be referred to as "schizophrenic"

Yah, and many of them talked about sacrifice, and were many times killed themselves. Kind of life feeding on itself, or something.

It's probably better to be labelled a prophet than a schizophrenic; because then they just kill you instead of trying to 'help' you.