Bless you, bonni well said. You would think that testing before implementing is a no-brainer, but apparently nobody at Renderosity could be bothered. A test site would have eliminated ninety percent of the user outrage and frustration of the past few days. At least Renderosity can be used by web design teachers as a textbook example of how NOT to "makeover" a website on-the-fly.

Hi Caly, I would have normally agreed with you, except as odd as this may sound, not everyone wants customizable colors in the Marketplace. On the community side I think we all agree, customizable colors are a great feature and are here to stay. However, it proved not to be so great in the Marketplace. After that was implemented (about 2 years ago) there have been a number of requests from Merchants to change it back. There were issues with buyers not being able to properly view graphics, or colored text depending on the member's settings. It greatly limited the ability of Merchants to be creative with the backgrounds and texts of their promo images and thumbnails. They had no idea what color combinations their products would be viewed with. They could no longer integrate the background color to create 3D illusions and transparent overlays, etc. The Merchants are an important part of the site (go figure, the money keeps the site running). They have a vested interest in it. Their requests, of course, weighed heavily in that decision. Additionally, I have not seen any another e-commerce site that allows people to customize the colors in it's Marketplace. When we reviewed the request and found 83% of the buyers already use the default off-white background anyway, it made sense to make the adjustment as part of the "Makeover". The customized color settings are still available within the community. But, the Marketplace now has it's own unique feel and style. Best wishes, LillianH Renderosity Marketing & Promotions PS. I hear you Bonni. While we did quite a bit of testing prior to launch, it was obviously not of the magnitude necessary to gauge the overall effect properly. Based on this experience, we are taking steps to correct that with future changes. Point well taken.

While we did quite a bit of testing prior to launch, it was obviously not of the magnitude necessary to gauge the overall effect properly. Based on this experience, we are taking steps to correct that with future changes. Point well taken. I'm really glad to hear this. The best anyone can expect is that people (and managements, which are made up of people ;-) learn from mistakes. bonni

"Additionally, I have not seen any another e-commerce site that allows people to customize the colors in it's Marketplace." 3DCommune's store carries any custom selected colors through-out. (even lets you upload a background image...)

That's a feature I've never noticed at 3d commune. Could you point me to the link that lets members customize the marketpage page? I really hate the red and black default.

Thanks!

Message edited on: 05/31/2004 12:37

http://www.3dcommune.com/3d/options.mv It's labeled My Account Options on the menu. From there you can customize your account with a lot of different options... like select a menu type, (the Collapsed menu is cool), adjust forum and gallery parameters like how many per page and default sort orders, site colors and/or background image, and much more.

Thank you! I am so happy to get rid of that background. Haven't seen that option anywhere else. I appreciate your help.

A few things to consider: Renderosity has been around for how many years and they have how many members? Why aren't they testing their code and colors BEFORE uploading it a live site? Or, do the PTB enjoy pissing off members? Just see the blow-up about the "mud" color scheme for the most recent issue. Somehow, someone thought that dark chocolate/ mud colors showcase artwork really well. And in this case, someone somehow thinks that a bunch of text links will show off graphical products really well. I want to click on a thumbnail of a character that looks cool and not have to click on Poser, then Vicky, then Characters, whoops, I meant to click on Vicky 3, no wait, I meant to click on Textures. "Also, it may be helpful to know that more than 94% of our active members use the default off-white background." This statistic was brought up back when the color scheme was changed. I don't know if the question was asked then, but: How many people know how to change the colors? And, out of the people who know how to change the colors, how many don't, because they have to complete the marketing information for their settings to save? "Additionally, I have not seen any another e-commerce site that allows people to customize the colors in it's Marketplace." Yeah, why be different and give the users a cool feature. No one else does, why should we? On the other hand, if users can customize their colors on the regular site, why can't they customize their colors on the marketplace site?

Just see the blow-up about the "mud" color scheme for the most recent issue. Somehow, someone thought that dark chocolate/ mud colors showcase artwork really well. The thing is, they insisted on keeping that to "let people get used to it" and then ended up changing it anyway. If they'd listened to the enormous chorus of complaints the first time or if they'd used the designer's actual designed color scheme (they decided to change it for reasons unknown; designer was not happy about it as I recall), they could have avoided a great deal of negativity and avoided a lot of hassle. This is the pattern, though. Implement some new thing without adequate testing or input from the community, then act surprised when people object, and treat all negative feedback as if those making the observations are just uneducated, reactionary, emotional artiste sorts who don't know what they're talking about, anyway. Then, eventually, implement most of the suggestions but act like it was part of the plan all along. It seems to me that for the sake of PR and professionalism, it would make a lot more sense to set up the proposed changes on a test server, invite people to log in and check it out, and gather the feedback (negative and positive) there, rather than launching onto a live site. bonni

The Merchants are an important part of the site (go figure, the money keeps the site running). They have a vested interest in it. Their requests, of course, weighed heavily in that decision. I was going to let that comment go, but I just couldn't. That comment is a really good way of starting an "us vs. them" controversy again. I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that the customers and the community as a whole is less important then the merchants, at least I hope not. The "merchants" are important, but it's not their money that makes the site run, it's the customer's money. You don't get that percentage from the merchant in the form of cash, you get it from the customer. I would think that having an option of changing colors to please the customers would be just as important as pleasing the merchants. You have people saying that because of the new changes, they aren't going to purchase here anymore...I think that would definately interest the merchant also. Even if it's one, that is important. Having an option would be a good marketing strategy I would think. The other thing to take into consideration, by and large this is a community of artistically inclined people, so what a market research company thinks is good for Ebay et al,may not exactly be good for an artistic community. In any case, glad the PTB's and the merchants are happy about it....because as a high volume customer I'm sure not. Pendarian

I am doing what I've always done: I go straight to the "What's New" button. Everything else -- I ignore.

I always went to the "Digital Products" link on the sidebar. Never through the front page of the marketplace. I could browse the entire marketplace from that link if I wanted (well, except for Rendo merchandise and books, etc.). Can't do that now. Now I have to go through each freakin' category that I use - Poser, Vue, 3DS, etc. That's just way more convoluted and time consuming, so, until I'm able to browse the entire marketplace the way I used to, I won't be spending any more money here either. Kate (who will continue to spend thousands of dollars on stuff, but will do it elsewhere)

Is BETA test over yet? shrug rolls eyes logout from front page leads to... marketplace, but only happens w/ mozilla firefox. with IE6, logout from front page, well, leads to front page. tried with 3 different computers (2 W2K and 1 XP Pro), clearing cookies, cache, and history. while using mozilla firefox, hovering pointer over "logout" indicates link to http://market.renderosity.com/logout.ez. with IE6, it goes to http://www.renderosity.com/logout.ez. so, with mozilla firefox, when i logout, i'm dumped to the marketplace. and should I want to log back in to the front page of renderosity, i have to retype www.renderosity.com because that graphic on the upper left corner that says "renderosity art community" doesn't bring me to renderosity art community. nope. back to marketplace. sigh i'll start shopping again when BETA testing is over

oh yeah, i know there is a logon link at the marketplace, but i don't want to login to the marketplace.

As a designer a basic rule in my work is always "form follows function" (not very new, i know). With the new marketplace i have the feeling that it is the other way round. Here i think we have a lot of form in terms of structure and less function. Here is how i am normally buying things. I go through "What's New" and decide what i like. Especially because i use several applications and mostly can't decide beforehand what i want. But i know approximately what i want to spend. The result from my last buying was, that i, after browsing through the Poser section, forgot to switch over to Vue and finished my buying - and bought less than planed. Exactly what not should happen. Another basic thing is to go live when the beta test is over - again, not the other way round. Great to here that there are improvements every day, but they should have been done in a beta test state, not when it is already live. It confuses me and that means i prefer going somewhere else. Conclusion? I personally have not so much fun in browsing through the new marketplace anymore. With the result that i spend more money in other places. I think the general figures after a while will tell you this statistically as well. Maybe then you latest should talk to your web-designers again. BTW, i like the new look and feel and have absolutely no problem so far (Mac, Safari)- only some functions should be back to make me a happy camper.

Maybe it is a complot to make Poser 5 look good in comparison.

A list of some bugs:

1. Still only about 100 products in the general "What's New" section.
2. "What's Hot" doesn't work, those are just the same products from the "What's New" section.
3. No general Warehouse link (not that I would buy anything from this section).
4. The background color ist just so awful.

Hi MadYuri, I'll address your list. 1) Still only about 100 products in the general "What's New" section. Thats working properly. It lists the last weeks worth of product releases since these would be considered "New". Products older than that are no longer considered "New". 2) "What's Hot" doesn't work, those are just the same products from the "What's New" section. The Whats Hot section doesnt list the same products in the Whats New section. Its listing products based on their sales volumes. 3) No general Warehouse link (not that I would buy anything from this section). Correct. The Warehouse sort selection is available in each product category. 4) The background color ist just so awful. Not a bug. Just a change to help us and the merchants present products to the customers in a more predictable environment. Clint

[The site speed fix is the most obvious improvement to me. Frankly, I am surprised that this highly NOTICEABLE change hasn't generated more comments.] Just tried to see D&M's latest product and after three refreshes and 5 minutes I still couldn't get the third image to show - real big speed improvement! lol [The Merchants are an important part of the site (go figure, the money keeps the site running). They have a vested interest in it. Their requests, of course, weighed heavily in that decision.] I'm with pendarian on this one. It's not the merchants that float the site it's the customers (i.e. members) that float the site. Doesn't do you any good to have a 1000 merchants with 5000 products if no one buys anything! lol

"4) The background color ist just so awful.

Not a bug. Just a change to help us and the merchants present products to the customers in a more predictable environment."

I still don't understand why there's not an individual option to change the colors. Merchants can still present their products in a way to compliment the default color scheme and those who chose not to have it just miss out on the overall effect but at least they would bother to look. The way it currently is I don't look at the marketplace unless I get a message that my favorite merchants have something new out and this is quite a change considering that before the change I looked at What's New at least 3-5 times a day. I don't understand why it's a major problem to give all those who want to change the colors the option...that way everyone is happy. I know the saying you can't please all the people all the time but in this case it seems so easy to do so...just give the people who want the option to change the colors the right to do so...it doesn't truly effect me because I'm going to be broke this summer and won't be purchasing anything for a while but it just irks me that the PTB won't even consider just giving the option when all it requires is a simple change in code...the way the issue is handled pisses me off more than the changes themselves...that's just my 2 cents...Jenn

*[The site speed fix is the most obvious improvement to me. Frankly, I am surprised that this highly NOTICEABLE change hasn't generated more comments.]

Just tried to see D&M's latest product and after three refreshes and 5 minutes I still couldn't get the third image to show - real big speed improvement! lol*

It's working for me. The site has been consistently much faster for the last several days.

Prior to last week, I regularly experienced time lags just as you describe. But not now.

Also, I am seeing the same speed increase from both of my ISP's -- one a cable connection, and the other a DSL.

Something is different. Personally, I'm glad about the difference. Too bad it doesn't seem to be working for everyone.

Hi Clint.

1. What if I was away for longer than a week? How can I see older "new products"?

2. "What's hot" is still the same as "What's new", just the sequence is different.

3. I don't really mind the missing general Warehouse link. This stuff is better best forgotten anyway.

4. This background color is a abominable abomination. I fucking hate it with a passion.

1. What if I was away for longer than a week? How can I see older "new products"?

I'm sort of inclined to agree with you on this one.

But it won't ruin my day if they decide not to change it.

3. I don't really mind the missing general Warehouse link. This stuff is better best forgotten anyway.

In the past, I've found some great deals in the warehouse.

Once in a while, yard sales have something worth buying. And one never knows -- that paint-by-numbers picture might be covering up a Picasso.

"What if I was away for longer than a week? How can I see older "new products"?" Select the All ICON next to the Poser link from the main MarketPlace page and go back to the date you need to browse from. That will display only Poser based products. How long do you feel that something should be considered "New"? Clint

How long do you feel that something should be considered "New"?

Admittedly, any "What's New" time frame is an arbitrary time frame. One week? Two weeks? Three weeks? What if someone takes a 3-month trip down the Amazon, and isn't near a computer for that entire period?

For this reason, I am curious as to why one needs any time frame at all? Why not just arrange all products by date, with no time frames?

As I indicated in my last post, this isn't the type of issue that will cause me to threaten to "go away forever!" or to "spend my money somewhere else!".

I've never found the petty to be intolerable. Good thing, too. If I did, I would never read the forums.

XENOPHONZ, Your funny. :) The way I understand it is that it would be taxing on the servers to display everything from day one when showing whats new. Its for this reason that we limited it to 7 days. We have to find a balance with site performance and functionality. Clint

*XENOPHONZ, Your funny. :)

Yeah......people tell me that all of the time.

*The way I understand it is that it would be taxing on the servers to display everything from day one when showing whats new.

Its for this reason that we limited it to 7 days.
We have to find a balance with site performance and functionality.*

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

I suppose if one takes a two-week vacation, and needs to catch up afterwards, then one will have to search products by category.

Personally, I don't take enough two-week vacations to make this a matter of great concern to me.

I'd say that a period of about 30 days would be sufficient for "what's new". That seems like a reasonable length of time, and has plenty of precedent. bonni