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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 10 7:27 pm)
Subject: Mike 2.0
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Im really wondering why it is that none of the stuff made for mike 3.0 is available for Mike 2.0 these days........ Is DAZ trying to kill off Mike 2.0 in favor of the Unisex version of Mike 3.0? I noticed Mike 3.0 is very good at producing young characters and thnner male figures, I can see why it would be popular, But why kill a good figure product like Mike 2.0 by sacrificing continued product support?
"Has DAZ decided to abandon Mike 2.0 in favor of promoting the universal or Unisex Mike 3.0?" um, yes -- and it's "unimesh", not unisex, not universal. And it's also something that will continue. "Can we ever expect to see Mike 2.0 upgraded and supported with products?" M3 is the upgrade to M2, so I'd say yes, you already have. M3 is the upgraded version of M2. M4 will be the next version of M3. It's sorta like windows versions -- the old ones are still sold, and sometimes there will be stuff for them, but it's the new ones that the focus is on. "Or is this it for Mike 2.0?" err, see above. "Im really wondering why it is that none of the stuff made for mike 3.0 is available for Mike 2.0 these days " Well, M2 is old, M3 is new, and so folks are making stuff for the new guy instead of the old guy. "Is DAZ trying to kill off Mike 2.0 in favor of the Unisex version of Mike 3.0?" yes. but, again, he isn't "unisex". Lose that thought. "I noticed Mike 3.0 is very good at producing young characters and thnner male figures, I can see why it would be popular, But why kill a good figure product like Mike 2.0 by sacrificing continued product support?" see above.
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
Well you are welcome to model
and create your own content for M2
just as you are free to still write program applications for
windows 3.1 or Mac os 7.3
BTW I utterly DESPISE Mike3!!!
and use the Daz freak and M2 for my animation work.
however you must realize that DAZ,thier brokered
artist and frankly ,the poser market itself thrives off
"flavor of the monthism".
not lifelong support and new continued content for every
model they release.
this type of planned obsolesence exists in all
consumer markets.
but its just that the life cycle of major poser characters
is much shorter than automobiles etc.
its a fact of life.
Message edited on: 06/03/2004 16:58
I'd like to note something in errata to the above. Daz isn't trying to Kill M2. If they were, then they would pull the product. But, even then, this likely wouldn't kill it. It's nigh impossible to kill a figure as widely distributed as M2. New stuff comes out for him somehwere, in some form, pretty much everyday. That DAZ doesn't do so anymore isn't a big deal. Once sales for M3 stagnate, they will release M4. Once M4 sales stagnate, they'll do M5. And so on. The "flavor of the month" analogy is somewhat true -- the "community" is rather full of folks who tend to get excited about new stuff. Unless it makes them have to learn something new. Or changes what they've done before. That's the way things pretty much work here. Does it mean that older products moulder and rot? Nope, not at all. There are products still availalable that were first created back in the early days of P3. They still have value today, and are still worthwhile. The level of merchant support for something is actually more important than the product itself. If the people making stuff for the new guy will make more money off stuff for him than off stuff for the old guy, then, generally, they'll make stuff for the new guy. And vice versa. If you want to see more for M2, then buy more for M2. Or, as noted, make it. btw, I'm not fond of either of them, lol. I'm still looking for a decent male figure I can say works for me.
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
I'm not fond of either of them, lol. I'm still looking for a decent male figure I can say works for me.< This is a bit off topic, but have you checked out Daniel at Poser Pros? He's based on the M3 mesh but built like M2. He takes M3 morphs and textures. He also has improved joints and poses very nicely (better than M2, I think). He also wears M2 clothes, with some slight adjustment. I really like him. I think he's the best of M3 and M2 combined. Back to your regularly scheduled M2 vs. M3 discussion. ;-) bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
My only concern (and the biggest reason i don't have any generation 3 figures) is the high poly count. I like to do multi person scenes with lots of props, I am afraid unimesh will turn my computers to unimush. I buy generation 2. I'd like to see a better version of generation 2 or a low res version of generation 3.
My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries
and another thought. I think M2 vs M3 is similar in many ways to P4 vs P5. Yea it's the "upgrade" but is not an easy step, and many are refusing to take that step. Some that did buy it use it as well as it's predisesor and some bought it and refuse to use it because it takes too much memory/processor. Biggest diffrence is M3 is getting support out the wazoo and P5 isn't.
My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries
My GOD! You think that guy's twig and berries could be any bigger! You're sexually exploiting that man! No dork should be bigger than a human head :) Just kidding. I always get guff about pics with big hooters in them. I think homosexual men and lesbians deserve protection from sexual exploitation from homosexuals just like heteros deserve protection from heteros. That is either the same amount or none for everyone. I think Mike 2 and Vicky 2 are extremely valuable but perhaps not worth total focus anymore. They are good for secondary characters in scenes etc where you need lower poly counts. But V2 and M2 have tons of clothes already, pretty much the gambit and more stuff can be done by 3rd party people. What is daz going to make for M2 that other people can't already make?
Here is what I think happened. Daz wants to make Mike more public friendly hence no genitals. Daz wants to have one universal mesh to make everything from. But Mike 2.0 is still a better model even without the injection morphs. If injection morphs make mike 2.0 more advanced then that the same thing can be done with mike 2.0..... I still have not figured out what makes mike 3.0 more advanced then mike 2.0 yet... I think Mike 2.0 is being abandoned because he has a penis built into his geometry, if you want to get down to the real reason Vicky was used to remake mike....
PoserStyle still makes things for M2 and V2, one reason why I maintain my subscription with them. Right now they have a Star Wars type Rebel Knight outfit for M2. And they made one for M3 as well. I don't have M2 because I upgraded from M1 to M3 because it was a better deal price wise but a lot of the stuff I have gotten from PoserStyle for M2 works for M1. And I use him occassionally. I won't upgrade to V3 because of all the morph and injection folders that came with M3, learned my lesson there. Besides, I still love my V2 and she works beautifully for my needs. And there are merchants who still make compatible items and textures for her. Bless them!
FlyByNight
I cant figure out why their calling him david 3 either...course I missed stephanie 2 somewhere also...
No offense intended, but I get kinda tired of reading this same complaint over and over again. Its kind of like when I worked in computer sales, and someone would buy a piece of software and say, "What do you mean this won't work on my 5 year old computer?" and my reply would be, "Sorry, nobody's forcing you to buy a new computer... but you can't expect continual support from all parties for something that's several years old."
There are TONS of products on the market for M2 and V2, and I really don't think anyone owns all of them. New products might not be released for them as often, but have you taken a look at some of the older products you may have missed? I've found quite a few quality products that weren't released yesterday, especially for the version 1/2 figures.
The market just doesn't move backwards, I'm not sure why people seem to find that so upsetting. I find that having significantly different figures helps to give images some variety, so I wouldn't really want to see a version 3 figure identical to a version 2 besides a higher poly count or improved joints.
Sometimes I wonder, if DAZ had chosen to give each version a different name instead of the number progression, would people have complained less? ;)
~ Molly
Yeah if your talking about programs, But mike is geometry, A sort of program sure, but I think Mike 2.0 is better then Mike 3.0 Iv done some pretty cool things with Mike 2.0 that I can not get Mike 3.0 to do at all, So Im pretty sold on Mike 2.0, however I do like the freak. As you can see My Mike 2.0 is not your average out of the Box mike 2.0, Alot has been done to him to make him look this way.
I really tried to make Mike 3.0 work for me, I did alot to the mesh, But it was real resistant to morphs, It seems one morph effects another and another. Maybe too many x cromozones in the mesh, I think since the mesh was ment to be a female form, it is resistant to becomming a male form. It is impressive what has been done to make it male so far, But the mesh seems to only want to go so far I think. Also I don't think Daz has really come clean on how Vicky came into being, Was She a human lazor scan like Mike taken from a real woman?? interesting Vicky was never ever advertised as being taken from a laser scan but Mike 1.0 and 2.0 was. Or was she modeled with a 3d program? If she was modeled with a 3d program then Mike seems to have taken a step backward if you ask me. And if she was modeled in a program and not taken from a real life scan, why not?, Was the scanning of a human female too expensive?
The most obvious difference to me is in the chest structure, its a more realistic ribcage shape and more rounded abs, unlike M2's very square torso. He also has larger hands and feet, and more proportional arms/legs by very slight amounts. I've been rather pleased with my purchase of Daniel, you might want to give him a chance. ~ Molly
Uhm, it's common knowledge that DAZ is a "spin off" company of Zygote. I was a customer of Zygote, and I remember when they became DAZ. Some of my older files (M1, V1, etc.) still say "Zygote" on the installer. Sorry, there's no conspiracy there. I also don't think that M3 was introduced "without genitals" for the sake of public image. He does have genitals, and what's more, they're posable. You can get a pretty credible erection with M3's equipment, or just have his twigs and berries fall more naturally if he's lying down in the nude. He even has a foreskin if you want to use it. No conspiracy there, either. bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
"All of it is subject to speculation for lack of positive proof, But I belive there is truth to it." ahem... straight face um, given that DAZ was a division of zygote that bought itself out of Zygote shortly before the merger, and that that division is the one that produced Victoria 1 in the first place, and that the unimesh is based on a laser scanned figure, I'd say yes, there is some truth to your assessment. some. most of it, however, is what one gets three years after the act is done. Furthermore, what we are talking about in the differences between M2 and M3, given your last statment there, is one of strict aesthetics -- you happen to prefer the "look" of M2 to the "look" of M3. which is absolutely fine! Ain't nuttin wrong with it at all! And you are somewhat saddened that there isn't any new stuff coming out for him, and the new stuff is so cool. that's pretty cool too. don't none of ya'll pick on him for that. the DAZ stuff I'm tossing my hands up at though -- if I get involved much more there I'll lose my rep for being a CL booster....
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
There's nothing wrong with preferring the look of M2 to the look of M3. I still use M2 for various projects, including client work. I just get really, really, REALLY tired of this particular argument. M2 is M2. M3 is M3. Superiority of one over the other is a useless argument. Like one, like the other, like both, WHATEVER! I certainly prefer M3's naughty bits to M2's, though. Big improvement in that department. :-) bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
um, Bruce, re read my post.. The unimesh is a laser scan. They are quite large enough. They are actually larger than Curious Labs, and, I believe they are larger than Zygote, as well.
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
"Besides that is not the problem, The problem is Mike 3.0 is getting all the product support, Mike 2.0 users are being ignored." Ok, I'm off to bed here, but... Pointed out earlier that he's not being ignored, he's been upgraded. Insofar as the product line goes, M3 is the current version of the "michael" figure. I'm willing to bet you'll see M4 before the end of this year, as well (and based on the original M2 mesh, possibly -- nothing would surprise me after seeing a cyclops made from the unimesh), and then M3 will cease to have the support tht he has now. This has nothing to do with the user base, everything to do with sales. M2 sales were pretty low when M3 came out. M3 sales are starting to reduce now. Both will still be available (heck, M1 is still available) for a long time to come -- there is enough stuff out there for both that if you wanted to invest the time an energy, you could create pretty much any type of outfit you wanted. And M2 still has stuff developed for him. It might not be as frequently, but there is something new for him coming out all the time. As noted in the thread -- this is what happens. It's the normal way of things. Especially where DAZ is concerned. They are a business. Although you may not like it, they don't make as much money supporting an old figure as they do a new one. Furthermore, the older a figure is, the more diluted their marketshare for that figure's accessories becomes, reducing even further the value of the figure. The money to grow comes from new. Not old. And if the market for m1 or m2 ever does dry up enough, you will see them both simply enter the free vault and reside ther forevermore. Until then -- you want it, ask for it, beg for it, and then pay for it. (or maybe simply pay for it -- hire one of the clothing creators to make you an outfit). Or make it yourself :)
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
I've seen this arguement before with (if not the same pic at the start), then one that looks just like it, that was posted again and again in the thread. Does anyone remember it? It wasn't that long ago, and it was just as boring, the same statement made over and over about M2 being better to create pecs with than M3. Marque
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Has DAZ decided to abandon Mike 2.0 in favor of promoting the universal or Unisex Mike 3.0? Can we ever expect to see Mike 2.0 upgraded and supported with products? Or is this it for Mike 2.0?