it used to be listed on the forums page but it's not anymore...wher'd it go? I've had a couple of OT questions with no place to post them....

The ptb closed it down on us with some flimsy excuse.

Well, I think the way it works now is you post a picture of a poser lo res figure here, and ask a question about it. Like, I found this figure in my Poser library, can he wear Michaels clothing. Oh, speaking of clothing, while I was getting dressed to day, I happened to think about..... :O)

teeee heeeee

I got away with posting a puppy picture using a similar method ... I'm so evil! LOLOL

you bad...you bad.....LOLOL...I may be worse..I didn't even post a pic...LOL

Hi Dizzie- yup- this place is naut but a glorified lookup table now. Welcome to the new world order, community my goat smelling butt.

"It takes a village to raise a child....", Unless the PTB say otherwise?

it got polarized, politicised, criticised, antagonized, then excised..;) thing I'm surprised is they killed the Moribund (er, Virtual) Tavern along with it..'just in case'..;)

Express yourself today - the Poser way

If you guys could have kept quiet about the OT forum for a few more time periods, the admins might have decided in your favor. But how do you think they'll react to yet another thread where it seems like people still can't moderate themselves? Try some positive thinking for a change. Convince everybody here that you're all mature, that none of you need supervision, and maybe you will all be pleasantly surprised.

While I don't doubt the threads became extremely heated at times the OT forum, and others like it, were what made this site a community site. The way it was completely yanked out from under EVERYONE was wrong. There were rules in place to handle the unruly. Those rules were not followed when the PTB took the easy way out by destroying the OT forum completely. The OT forum made the people behind the screen names more interesting and real. Too bad some folks can't handle reality.

As I saw it it turned into a mostly political forum, and personal attacks became rampant. The point is some folks cannot control themselves and ruined it for the rest of us.

ROFLMHO

I guess its sort of like having to explain the punchline to a joke, it loses something in the process...

My apologies to anyone who found my posts immature.

Wake up folks. You are being spanked and sent to bed without no supper for something you did not do. Renderosity may mean well, but making new policies to restrict the behavior of people who are already behaving is just plain silly. As for having any real effect on those who would act badly - I think my post addresses that one.

TygerCub got it right. We need to stop lumping the good and well behaving members of this community in with the few bad apples that crop up from time to time.

Sadly, the attitude being reflected by Renderosity is very much akin to those sentiments being expressed above by mateo_sancarlos. Well meant, I am certain. Nevertheless, the collective mindset rings throw and reflects what I think has become Renderosities outlook upon us as a community. We have all been "lumped in together" the good with the bad, and are seen now as nothing more than unruly, immature kids who can not play well with others on our own, so Mommy and Daddy must step in and spank us.

And all the while, those few who would rather stand out from the crowd and be noticed by acting badly, rather than blend in with the social mores that drive a community, once again get the focus, and the attention, and the joy they sought. They are still laughing, and doing as they pleased, and it is at our expense. And they find that funny. Don't you?

It is time for this community to remember why there is a Renderosity to began with. Who made them what they are today, and why we want to come here, and why we use to really enjoy doing so. Renderosity means well, I am sure. But their approach to handling these "problem children" have been misguided.

You can sit quietly by on the sidelines - like sheep - and just let the chips fall as they may, and watch more and more restrictions be placed upon you. Or you can cry foul, and let them know that you were not the problem to start with, and you do not need to be spanked and sent to your room over something someone else did. If they need to punish someone, to restore discipline and order, how about they start with the person who likes the attention to begin with.

Nuff said. :O(

We can all band together and demand that the OT forum be brought back.

why??? just go over to poser pros or some other website the internet is a BIG place you know

What we ae wanting to do here is to build and maintain good relationships, both between Renderosity as a forum and we as the community that make it up, as well as between each other as individual members. Demanding and trying to bully or impose our way over someone elses rarely yield good and lasting results.

Renderosity is not really out to get us. They are just trying to find ways to manage some difficult situation. Perhaps, not always going about it in the best way possible, IMHO, but they are trying to do what they believe is right. What needs to be considered carefully in the future is how taking a certain action meant to correct one thing (brought about often by only one or two individuals seeking attention for themselves) can impact on the the community as a whole.

We have seen where some things done here have left us - collectively - feeling less than loved. That fosters resentments and can lead to people who were not a problem, becoming a problem. It is never an easy thing being in a position of responsiblity, and often it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of deal. What we as members of this community can best do is try to keep in mind that as a community we have to be concerned about the general good of all, not just in promoting what floats our boat.

There are many things I can do and may feel okay about doing in private that should be thought about be for I do them in public. When we disagree with something, how we go about expressing that can make a big difference in the outcome to be expected. Asking in a calm and open manner, presenting well thought out arguments for your position is always helpful, as is clearly stating objections in a less than hostile and deliberately insulting way. When we make the effort to understand and get along with each other, we generally can work out our difference.

A lot of assumptions have been made regarding the removal of the Virtual Tavern and the OT forum, but the truth hasn't been told. I don't pretend to know what the real reasons were, but I was privately advised by a staffperson that the reasons being speculated upon were wrong. This person had been asked not to talk about the real reasons, so of course I didn't ask them to. The only reason I'm saying this is because I see a lot of discussion, hand-wringing, and false accusations being made that may actually be irrelevant to the actual circumstances. Just a thought.

Where facts are lacking, theories abound. Or, why Aliens from Delta ze Boi shot Kennedy from the grassy Noll in retaliation for the US weather balloon downing one of their spacecrafts in Roswell New Mexico where they were clearly in violation of a no fly zone. Some times it doesn't really matter to us who is right or wrong, just so long as we have our cause, and can use it like a club to beat the other guy senseless.

The 'Commies bashing the U.S. forum', has been closed?

Awwwww.

If opinions took artistic ability, we'd all be filthy rich. OT forum really had no necessity here, anyway.

Good riddance.

I think the problem with the OT forum was that it may have been detrimental to the community. People were getting way too hostile. That said, I've complained in the past about some other forums that I thought should be closed because they were not as widely used.

The OT forum did make for good conversation at times. Other times it was a bit too political and hostile. This is not the first time that a forum has been closed. Remember C&D? It's kind of a cycle. A discussion forum opens and people vent in it and then it gets shut down when people take things too personal. I would give it some time since another OT forum will have to open in order to prevent off-topic posts in the poser forum... ...LOL or people could just start invading the AT forum...

Message edited on: 06/15/2004 16:37

Thanks xoconostle, there are always reasons, right or wrong, that motivate us to act as we do....

Truth is I rarely visited the OT forum and my comments were not meant to be for or against it, but rather were directed at the frustration that seems to have stirred here.

As Renderosity grows, a certain sense of alienation between us and them enters in. This needs to be looked at, since there really is no us and them in a community such as this. Just folks who carry out different roles. Renderosity as host, has certain things that concern them. We as members have our own concerns. Sometimes we disagree. We can get nasty about it. Or we can work together to find solutions.

I could say more, but I have really said more than needed to be said. Most folks, I beleive, are aware of what is taking place and are looking to see this sense of alienation ended. With time, I am hopeful that it will be. All it takes is for us to talk to one another in a calm and civil manner as members of a community, and not start drawing lines in the sand when things don't go quite the way we wanted them to.

Attached Link: http://digital-cheryle.com/Offtopic/index.php

"As I saw it it turned into a mostly political forum, and personal attacks became rampant. The point is some folks cannot control themselves and ruined it for the rest of us. " Mmmmm. The "regulars" of the OT forum have opened a board to continue their OT discussion and political argument. Since there isn't any moderator to whine to, and since the rules are easy to understand (the forul titles say it all), we have been behaving remarkably well among us, for people who were accused of ruining things down any chance they got. This is by no means a challenge to the 'Rosity moderators : it is their plain right to keep to technical matters in this forum, and I have nothing against it. In a way, it is clearer : when I want to uphold my banner, I go to our new place. When I need a serious, gentle and competent technical aide, I come here.

I've always been amazed by the virulent anti-OT voices who found it so VERY offensive that people who wanted to could get together and talk about just about anything. They've NEVER answered the question - If they hated OT so damned much, WHY the hell did they keep going there? Was it just so they could have an opportunity to be offended by something? It certainly seems so. As it is now, the bulk of the old OT regulars are quite happy, and getting along very well with each other, yakking up a storm (without the vitriol) over at digitalcheryle.com. It seems that the REAL "troublemakers" are the constant-complainers who stayed here, gloating that they have driven off so many former members.

:>0

it's gone 'cause a bunch of idiots thought OT ment Outright Trolling and proceded to trast the hell out of it by bitching about anything and everything then got all bent out of shape when someone told them to "shut up and sit down"

If they hated OT so damned much, WHY the hell did they keep going there?

"Sir, why do you keep hitting yourself in the head with that hammer?"

"Because it feels so good when I stop."

Actually I liked the OT forum, it was a great place to let off some steam, and some good discussions, and I personally think it should be brought back; I enjoyed the wacky cast of characters from the "conservatives" to the "liberals" the "well informed" and the "misinformed"; but when folks ignore the big bold red letters stating "Personal Attacks Will Not Be Tolerated" and other rules posted, then I guess in a way they did do the right thing. As far as my words being quoted by compiler (I don't know if my comment was used in a positive or negative context.) I was not whining I was making a personal observation. I hope its still brought back though, I really enjoyed it.

Dizzie, there should be a - between digital and cheryl

My apologies to you, galactron : I did not want to suggest that you were the one to whine.

Ay, dios mio! I'm sorry Cheryle had to shut it down. But some of these guys can always be expected to ruin it for everyone else - here, there and everywhere. The worst part of it is they're still here, trying to destroy any hope of an OT forum, with their immature behavior. If they didn't wear their intolerance and hostility on their sleeves, it would work out to the greater good, and we'd get an OT forum. I'm in favor of it, provided the malcontents can behave like responsible adults for a change.

Cheryle did not shut the site down : the forum is still here. Just follow the link in post 25 (I just checked).

[["Sir, why do you keep hitting yourself in the head with that hammer?" "Because it feels so good when I stop."]] In this case, it was "Because it feels so good when I can STOP others from expressing themselves." (thanks so much for your lovely attempt to trivialize the question, btw.) All that crap about it "being detrimental" is just that, crap. That "silence" mateo so smugly gloats about is the "silence of dissenting views being squelched" and nothing more. It's not like it was some neighborhood tavern with loud music that kept the neighbors up all nite after all. It really was more like a conversation inside a soundproof cabinet, inside a soundproof room. To hear it, you had to CHOSE to enter the soundproof room (the OT forum), then you had to CHOSE to enter the soundproof cabinet (the individual thread), and ONLY then could you tell what was being said. The gloaters went in there ranting, and when they could not get people to agree with them, they resorted to personal attacks, and when people responded in kind, they ran to the mods crying "foul". Well, the personal-attack specialists are still here, still gloating about having silenced any who dare to disagree with them. Meanwhile, the old OT regulars are quite happy and getting along marvelously with each other (even those with quite opposing views) in their new home. NO problems at all.