Attached Link: http://www.pumeco.com

I am pleased to announce that Bryce 5 users could soon have new rendering abilities. This is thanks to the soon to be released rendering product called PRO-RENDER. PRO-RENDER is nearing completion, and will be submitted to Renderosity and other online stores for testing soon. All being well, the expected release date for PRO-RENDER is August 2004. Here's the specification of PRO-RENDER at the moment: GI (Global Illumination) - Light your scene without the need for lights. EBI (Environment Based Illumination) - Light your scene using a Bryce environment as a light source. IBI (Image Based Illumination) - Light your scene using a backdrop as a light source. Adjustable quality setting (1-5) - Quality from low (fast) to high (slow). The price of PRO-RENDER has not been decided at this moment, and I am open to suggestions as to what price the product should be given. I would like any reader of this message to post a reply suggesting a price for PRO-RENDER. This is VERY important to me. If you decide to make a price suggestion, I would like you to please bear in mind that pumeco was set up to develop 3D products as my ONLY source of income. If the prices suggested are too low to sustain an income, I simply won't be able to develop further products, or even worse, won't be able to finish PRO-RENDER. So please quote the HIGHEST price you would expect to pay for a product such as PRO-RENDER. I will note every suggestion with great consideration. Also, please post any comments, questions or suggestions about PRO-RENDER, I don't mind if it's serious tech-talk or just to make conversation, go ahead and post! And finally, I would just like to say that I am working on some example renders produced using Bryce 5 with PRO-RENDER, and I will post them here as soon as possible.

Can't name a price without seeing how it looks. Look forward to seeing some samples of its abilities.

Sounds like a cool idea. I'd like to see some screenshots of the results before thinking of a price.

Screen shots, sample renders and a bit more information would be nice. This can't be a plug in to bryce? So uses BR5 files? The render engine is yours, or Bryces? SOrry, I just would like to know what the link is to Bryce and how intergrated the two would be. Your Artist homepage is a little empty, so we can't even tell who you are, or your abilities or anything. The website link you gave just gives me a grey screen with your embossed name. Do you have any more information you can toss us?

Some samples would be great. J.

Yes, I agree, I would like to see some screenshots as well. I would also like to know the render times with some sort of comparison to light domes and different light set ups. As far as pricing, I'm not sure because I've never bought plugins for any of my graphics programs, and I don't know what the results look like, but my guestimate would be 75 USD or something (sorry if this is way off). However, if the results look promising, I'd definetly pay more, because GI in Bryce sounds awesome, and I could get rid of those cursed light structures.

First of all, I apologise for putting the link up so early. The idea was to get the link into my original announcement, so that it would be there for when the official PRO-RENDER homepage is completed. Believe me, the link will spring to life soon enough. In answer to the questions regarding .br5 files, the render engine, and intergration. I can tell you that because Bryce 5 does'nt allow for a plugin renderer, you're right in assuming it uses a .br5 file to set up the renderer. However the .br5 file alone is not enough to be able to use PRO-RENDER correctly. This is because PRO-RENDER uses a method that requires not only a VERY specific scene preset, but also modification of all rendered materials. The final element of PRO-RENDER is the documentation, which describes the undocumented abilities and methods to be learnt in order to allow the Bryce 5 render engine to perform PRO-RENDER abilities. The abilities of PRO-RENDER are already inherent in the Bryce 5 render engine, so in so many words, PRO-RENDER unlocks them. As far as intergration goes, it has perfect intergration with Bryce 5, because it is Bryce 5! I am working on some example renders, and will post them here as soon as possible. Thank's to everyone so far, and keep the questions and comments coming thick and fast!

After reading this I think some clarification is needed. Is it the B5 render engine you are using or not? Do you load br5 files to then render? What exact tweaks to the file are you talking about? "... The final element of PRO-RENDER is the documentation, which describes the undocumented abilities and methods to be learnt in order to allow the Bryce 5 render engine to perform PRO-RENDER abilities..." This makes no sense, if you've documented the abilities and methods, then there isn't anything that's, 'undocumented'. And if the B5 render engine can do these things already, why would we need PRO-RENDER? ??????????????

I think he means that we don't have access to all the Br5 renderer can do and PRO-RENDER unlocks these abilities that we can't normally get access to. Is that what you mean, do I win a cookie? 8) I agree with the rest here in wanting to see more of what you are trying to sell, with no images or render times or what have you, it's hard to find the actual goal posts. But I'm definately looking forward to what you've got to show us. 8) Catlin

yes show us some renders and the time they took can you also make bryce directx compatible? for better previews? am looking forward too for those pics.

Ok let's see now, how best to explain... well first of all
I would like to clarify that when I said undocumented abilities, it was supposed to mean undocumented (until the release of PRO-RENDER), abilities. As far as the Bryce 5 render engine question goes, as I said earlier, Bryce 5 does'nt allow for a plugin renderer, so yes, it does use the Bryce 5 renderer. PRO-RENDER consists of .br5 setup files, compatible material presets, and documentation needed to describe the PRO-RENDER method of rendering.

In answer to the final question "why would we need PRO-RENDER?" There is really only one answer to that one, so here it goes...

Can you do this without PRO-RENDER!

I hope this has helped answer your questions. I can understand it being difficult to realise how this works, after all, until now, merchant stores for Bryce 5 products generally consist of sky, material, and scene presets.

There's a little more depth to this product than a mere preset, if you get my meaning. PRO-RENDER really does provide you with the abilities stated in my original post,
and the standard of lighting that can be achieved is far superior to the standard generally obtainable, I hope you`ll agree when I post some example renders.

Of course I'm with the other folks here, we definitely need more info and visuals. I kind of get the same take as Catlin, that you are saying that the abilities are presently within Bryce 5 but not enable but your render engine facilitates in enabling these options or switches and therefore taps into these locked abilities. Will the renderer do anything else other than render B5 files? I get the feeling that it inputs B5 scene files without the lighting setup which can then be setup in Pro-Render or does it import B5 lighting also? Can other geometries be imported from outside sources such as *.obj, *.dxf, or *.3ds? Does it provide for mapping coordinates and texturing, if so, is it a complex texturing system?

can we do what without Pro Render?..;) I'm rootin' for ya fella..but it's a sad fact of the times we live in that we tend to respond visually..hope the project goes well..but it would help your cause a lot more to show us comparison pics, etc., or show us things we can't do that it can..we'll be waiting, so take yer time..good luck.

I think I get how it works,but bryce can be bought for under 100$ so if your product is like Brazil(3dsMax),or PixarRenderMAN then maybe half the price of the program(if really good 75$ maybe).So I take you just wrote coding for GI and light solutions that "adds" it into a br5 file which then gets reloaded into bryce and is then understanded by the bryce raytracer engine.If so cool, and about time really.One suggestion, Mac&PC compatible!

Personally I would not pay anything for rendering techniques that one can teach themselves.

I'm sorry for not really asking this in my earlier post, but is there any noticable improvement in the renderings or the render time? Is just wondering if there is any improvement to the image or to the render time when compared with light domes. Does your program help the render time at all or does it look better than light dome lighting? I just want to know if there is some benefit besides not having to set up lights.

Light domes "fake" GI,he says his makes real GI,which means they are not "technics",but an actual render solution embeded into the br5 file that the raytracer can read(I assume that from how he described it).And yes real GI is better than a fake light dome.The only thing that might hold it back is the images,I say wait and see.Or let some of the good artists here who know about advanced lighting and GI to do some beta testing to show the forum what can be done.

This sounds an awful lot like one of those stupid real-estate investment infomercials. A lot of circle-talking and not nearly enough information on what really needs to be done or what the real results are. And my guess is, all he's done is written and/or copied tutorials and setup files for things that we've been doing for ages. Unless he's somehow actually done some sort of real work...but i'm gonna be the cynic until we see some results or we get a LOGICAL and COHERENT explanation.

@Slakker-I'm with you.All the stuff I said is "based of assumptions" of what I thought he was "trying" say.But how would he sell it here if it was a fake product.I assumed it was an actual application utility that would "add a render solution" much like other programs such as Brazil for Max.If it doesnt do that,its fake then.

Hay guys, lets give this member a break. He said he was going to provide all the information plus images so we can see for ourselves, so lets just wait and see. He just wants to see what the market has to offer. He may decide it's not worth his time depending on the feedback. On the other hand, this might just be the best thing that's come along for Bryce in a long time. Patience my children. :)

Well hey, all I can say is, it's about time! Yeaho! Besta luck to you! Personally, I think everyone's bein kinda harsh on ya ;P

I think some were disappointed when it turned out not to be the "Good news for Bryce 5 users" that we've been waiting to hear, i.e. Bryce 6.

Let me Beta test...I am more then willing to give feedback...Whether it good or Bad you will get feedback...

I think the problem here is that you've jumped the gun a little. It would have been far better and easier on you if you had waited another day or so in order to be able get your website up and running and post some samples with your good news. Personally, I'm willing to forget this post and give you the benefit of the doubt.

My problem is what you said about "compatible material presets." Does this mean you can only use materials that you provide with the program? If thats the case, I don't like that idea at all.

In the first instance I thank you for the advertisement verily this important event to all of us .... Secondly when are we capable of a purchase of this pro-render.... Thirdly and very important !!!!!!!! Is you capable of laying enterface picture to us for pro-render ..... We wait for you impatiently for we show this beautiful render Nawaf 3D

In the first instance I thank you for the advertisement verily this important event to all of us .... Secondly when are we capable of a purchase of this pro-render.... Thirdly and very important !!!!!!!! Is you capable of laying enterface picture to us for pro-render ..... We wait for you impatiently for we show this beautiful render Nawaf 3D

Just hope he's not tryin to sell time shares,(Geez i hate those guys)

pumeco wrote: "PRO-RENDER consists of .br5 setup files, compatible material presets, and documentation needed to describe the PRO-RENDER method of rendering." So what you are saying is that you have discovered undocumented Bryce5 render techniques/processes, and you are proposing to sell the knowledge along with accompanying Bryce files and presets. I see two related major obstacles to this being a viable product: 1/ The Bryce user community has a long history of free and open exchange of tips and techniques. It will quite likely be somewhat hostile to being charged for knowledge - especially if that knowledge is inspired by information already freely exchanged in the community... 2/ Once the knowledge, files and presets are released, they (or close variations) will very likely be openly exchanged - perfectly legally - within the community (especially given the above). As was discovered in the Poser community (and stressed by Curious Labs, the owners of the Poser program) you cannot copyright program settings. For example, Poser light sets are not copyrightable because they are purely program settings. This doesn't stop people selling packages consisting of program settings, and it doesn't stop people buying them. But there is absolutely nothing to stop anyone giving the settings away. The Poser user base is perhaps unique in having a great many people willing to pay for what they already own... If "PRO-RENDER" is merely inherent Bryce settings (and knowledge thereof), you cannot copyright it (nor patent it). There is nothing to stop you selling a package comprised of your knowledge of Bryce settings, plus Bryce files and Bryce presets using those settings - but likewise there is nothing to stop anyone posting the knowledge for free and releasing files and presets using those settings. The only copyrightable items in your product (as described by you) are the order of words in the documentation (but not the knowledge the words convey) and any original materials you might include within the files and presets. You ask if we can do this without "PRO-RENDER". The answer is almost certainly yes - as soon as you tell us how. Given what your proposed product consists of, and given that you probably cannot effectively control it, I suggest an alternative marketing strategy. Release the concept free of charge in the form of an online tutorial (with downloadable files) published on your website, along with a donation option. If you are the person clever enough to finally turn Bryce into a workable advanced renderer, then you can use this to promote yourself and your company. It would be excellent publicity. And I've no doubt Bryce users would be grateful. If the concept delivers as described, and with no major problems or limitations, I would gladly donate, say, 20 dollars - so long as I wasn't forced to. Rather than the possibility of resentment and hostility, there would be the certainty of respect and loyalty. Either way, you won't get rich with "PRO-RENDER". Please accept the above as it is intended - positive, constructive advice. :-)

I'm wondering why would such a powerful feature be undocumented? That's like selling a Ferrari but not explaining how to get out of first gear. Which makes me think (hope) that Pro-Render is something more than just hidden settings.

By the way, some members here are already producing scenes not a million miles away from what you describe. This straight Bryce render: is lit entirely without lights (less than an hour to render, even with refractive material). The illumination comes entirely from the sky, and light from that bounces off of the materials onto other materials - a sort of radiosity. This uses techniques I've already discussed in this forum. I haven't developed further because I came up against brick walls that I couldn't work around. I would be most pleased to be able to do this sort of thing under all circumstances with no grief.

Attached Link: Who am I?

Well, PJF, if you start a promotional thread , look at the attached link. No 'real' light sources involved. J.

Mine wasn't intended as personal promotion, derjimi; it was intended to promote the point that Bryce users are already exploring render techniques beyond those documented. Incidentally, my image above is a True Ambient render. There are no diffuse or reflective materials; only ambient ones.

I dunno,........I'm with the others,.....I'd like to see some examples and documentation. I think the best news for Bryce 5 users would be Bryce 6, or maybe a Bryce 5 Pro, like the makers of Vue d'Esprit did. The basic code needs to be in part rewritten to include true Radiosity, G.I., multi-threading(the abilty to use more than one processor), the ability to use third party rendering engines,....etc.

Bryce doesn't have a plug-in architecture, does it? So there is no way this guy wrote code to force Bryce to calculate a radiosity solution. Without modifying or adding to the original source code, recompiling and then redistributing the entire program, it can't happen. Just saying something is so doesn't make it so. Not to sound too skeptical here, but this whole thing looks like smoke and mirrors and that you Bryce folks are being led by the nose.

Until there is more info forthcoming all I see are a lot of promises and no details.

Actually if this is pluggin or mod for Bryce you should ask a couple of talented (erhmmm) artists who know Bryce (hrmmm) very well, to beta test this. Then those images and the testomonies would go a long way to selling this to the commmunity. I would gladly offer my services and processor time to try something like a mod or a pluggin. If however they are techniques I am curious as to why you would charge for them.

Help! I've just read the comments posted in this thread,
and I was wondering, what did I do wrong. Was it wrong of me
to think that the Bryce community would be HAPPY to read
about a new product. OK, I posted a link to what WILL soon be
the official homepage for PRO-RENDER, perhaps a bad idea, but I
have explained why I did this, and again I apologise. I am a
NEW member, and I obviously have a lot to learn, when it comes
down to how to conduct myself in a forum like this, so please
bear with me, I never make the same mistake twice!

It seems to be getting pretty heated in this thread, and I think
I know why, so I will make this a lengthy post. First of all I
will try to cool things down a little by explaining my plans,
then I will answer the questions.

Now then, you're probably wondering WHO? HOW? WHY?

So here it goes...

WHO?

My name is Len, a shy 30 year old SINGLE male ( hello girls! )
I love 3D, and have a passion for Bryce. I am NOT a Real-Estate setup
as suggested by Slakker, nor have I copied tutorials by others,
why on earth would I want to do that? To prove this, Slakker,
it would be great if you could post the URL's of the tutorials you
know of. If you do, I would be only too pleased to check them out.
And if, in the VERY unlikely event I should find a tutorial that uses
the same method as PRO-RENDER, I will make sure that everyone reading
this thread gets the chance to see it, and I'll release PRO-RENDER
into the "FREE STUFF" pages of Renderosity, how`s that!

HOW?

A lot of frustration, 100's of rendering hours, and an extreme
amount of perseverence. I wanted GI from Bryce 5, and refused
to give up until I got it. That's just as well, because believe me,
when PRO-RENDER is released, Bryce 5 users worldwide, WILL be
creating images with PRO-RENDER, no matter what the non-believers
may say, do, or think.

WHY

I gave up self-employment as a computer technician, so that I can
develop products for the 3D community, and hopefully earn just enough
money to enable me to do what I love. So, PRO-RENDER will be my
first product.
I hope that gives everyone a better idea of who I am, why I set up
pumeco, and what my intentions are. I am new here, and the last thing
I want to do is upset, or alienate anyone. I want to be liked,
not disliked. I might be new to forums, but I'm not new to 3D,
so believe me when I say, PRO-RENDER might not sound like the most
exciting product for Bryce 5, but without a doubt, it's THE most
important product release for Bryce 5 ever! It's just a shame that
some people will never realise just HOW important GI can be in a
render, and therefore how important PRO-RENDER actually is.

Now that we have that out of the way, I'll answere the questions.

No then, the best way to do this I think, is to elaborate on what
PRO-RENDER consists of and how it works. I think that should answer
the questions put forward so far.

PRO-RENDER should work on PC or MAC, I see no reason why not.

PRO-RENDER is NOT a Plug-In renderer, or a seperate application.
Nor, did I write a Bryce 5 renderer recoding routine into a .br5
file to add a new solution.

PRO-RENDER compatible materials can be made by simply modifying
any standard material preset, which means that all of your current
material preset's will work with PRO-RENDER, no problem!

PRO-RENDER does not have it's own interface. It does not need one
because as I said in an earlier post, PRO-RENDER consists of .br5
files, material presets, and documentation. None of which would
require it's own interface.

PRO-RENDER images will be more accurate than the use of light domes.
There are two reasons for this. The first reason is that light domes
do not allow the surfaces in the scene to reflect INDIRECT light.
For example, Imagine a room with pure white walls and ceiling.
Add to this, a bright red carpet. Now, in a real life situation,
what would happen is that the white parts of the room would look
ever so slightly pinkish, because of the ambient red light being
given off by the carpet. Well, PRO-RENDER will simulate that
very effect. The second reason for PRO-RENDER being more accurate
is that when you use a light dome, shadow bands appear around the
objects in the scene. The less lights you use, the more apparent
the shadow bands become. There is no such problem when you are using
PRO-RENDER, because with TRUE Global Illumination, light is supplied
from all directions. So you can simply drop objects into your scene
and they will be illuminated naturally by their surroundings, objects
themselves, become a source of light when INDIRECT light bounces off
them, and incredibly natural shadows are created automatically by
this effect.

Keep the questions coming!

Ah....never mind.

Message edited on: 06/21/2004 20:13

*"For example, Imagine a room with pure white walls and ceiling. Add to this, a bright red carpet. Now, in a real life situation, what would happen is that the white parts of the room would look ever so slightly pinkish, because of the ambient red light being given off by the carpet. Well, PRO-RENDER will simulate that very effect."*

Yup, been simulating radiosity with True Ambience for a while. Lots of problems, but the basis is there.

Does "PRO-RENDER" use True Ambience?

OK...I will Betatest...Let me know when ya need us...Free is awesome...Lets Bryce it on....I really dont think anyone is MAD at you they just are VERY EXCITED about something Helping us BRYCERS out right GUYS and GAlS...

So far, no good. You've typed a lot, but given us exactly zero of the following : 1. Screenshots. 2. Screenshots. 3. Screenshots. So, nobody really believes you. Also, many of us, at least 100 people here at Rendersosity, are very deep inside the Bryce rendering engine. I'm not saying it's possible we missed something important, but quite unlikely. I don't find it offensive that you think we're idiots, because I happen to know for FACT that I AM an idiot. But I also think you're an idiot. So, welcome to idiocy? Glad you could join us. So, post some screenshots and explain yourself, or join the countless ranks of idiots who type a lot. The key to typing a lot is to use lots of commas. Never underestimate the power of commas! Dramtic pauses, lists, and the like, are what make commas more powerful than periods. I vote for commas, every time.

I tend to concur with Folypro... Don't think anyone is mad at you by any means.... More excited I think, as Folypro said, about something happening to help us Brycers. 8)

I'm pulling for you man,But what you are saying is VERY vaque,and without evidence you ain't getting nuthin' from these people.
Also the fact that you jumped the gun on the website announcement,doesn't weigh well in your favor.
If I go to some website that is supposed to give me info,and all I see is a logo.........well I hope you see what I mean.
Oh yeah did I mention,
SCREENSHOTS !?
I mean if it works as well as you say,you MUST have used it already,you MUST have one render that you have done with it,POST the damn thing and make us all shut our mouths. lol

Mark

Message edited on: 06/22/2004 08:32

Message edited on: 06/22/2004 08:32

Hi everyone! I've decided that PRO-RENDER is going to be FREE!
But before I say how and when, I wish you would all take the time to
read what I have to say on the matter, at least grant me that wish.

Here goes...

Right, first of all, I need you all to know, that when I post a reply
to the posts made in this thread, I come here to have a read,
and then go OFFLINE to prepare and write a reply. The problem with this
method is that inbetween the time I read the replies, and the time I
get back to Renderosity to post my own reply, even more people have
asked questions. So obviously, your questions might not get answered in
the reply DIRECTLY after your question. Whenever this may be the case,
please bear with me, I will answer ALL questions one way or another.
I think this needs to be pointed out because of one comment inparticular,

i.e. "Ah....never mind." from RubiconDigital.

I was'nt ignoring you, I would never do that without good reason.
It`s just that I had'nt read your question before I posted my previous reply.
So, here is an answer to your question. No, Bryce does'nt have a plugin
architecture, or at least, as far as I know, it does'nt. And as described
in my previous reply, no, I did'nt write a new Radiosity solution.
Also, as far as your comment "...you Bryce folks are being led by the nose."
I think that's a little unfair to say the least. As far as I am concerned,
I'm just doing my best to publicise a product which I thought would be
of interest, and to answer questions in the best way I can.

Up until VERY recently, I was not a member of Renderosity, and as such,
I had no Idea of just HOW passionate some members are about Bryce.
The only tutorials I could find on Global Illumination where found
on "non-membership" websites, which where found through web searches etc.
During that time I found the following methods:

1 - To use weak shadowless area lights.

2 - To use light domes/planes etc.

3 - To use full-on blurry reflections.

So, I set about trying to better the situation by developing my own method.
What I came up with is PRO-RENDER.

However, because of what has been pointed out to me in this thread,
I realise that I`ve MASSIVELY underestimated the abilities which have
been under development by you guys. Without Renderosity, I felt like
a loner, and just a nobody who has a great interest in something, which
would bore the pants off the avarage Bryce user. I had the impression
that people would'nt really be that bothered about such highly technical
matters as Global Illumination, but if I could crack it, the results would
be welcomed with open arms.

Well, now I can understand where I've gone wrong here. Because after
I'd read that post by PJF giving advice, I decided I may well have to
change my strategy. So, streight away, I searched the name PJF, and it
threw up threads which can only be described as MINDBLOWING.
Well, PJF and the others in the associated threads, REALLY know their
stuff. Being dropped into a thread like that was absolutely amazing
reading for me. I only wish I had known about the place sooner.

So, the point being, I think you guys saw me as someone who had come
along, only to make some quick money out of a re-assembly of the work
you guys had been working on for ages. In reality, that's simply
not true. I would have loved to have been around here from the very
start of those threads. I would have been only too happy to give input
on those matters, just as I would love to do so now, and in the future.
That is of course, if I am welcome here, after this unfortunate mess.
I hope so.

The PRO-RENDER method uses true ambience, just as some of your methods do.
But after reading some of the threads, I have to say that PRO-RENDER
seems to differ in method in some respects. For example, in post number-31,
PJF shows an image, and goes on to say that he has'nt yet been able to
develop it any further. Well PJF, I think PRO-RENDER is possibly the
method you are seeking! PRO-RENDER does have it's quirks, but it does
render really clean'n'bright looking images with minimal grain,
and no leakage. I've also got some extra information on control of
aperture, film grain, and abberation that might interest you, and others.

Returning to the main matter now, I totally agree with what has been
said, regarding the marketing strategy behind PRO-RENDER. Knowing what
I know now, I would feel bad about "selling" the product, even though it
is my own work. I'm sure everyone here is well aware that scene files,
material presets, and tutorials are all valid merchant products
on their own, but not it seems, when they are packaged together as a
product, which is essentially what PRO-RENDER consists of.

No, I see the points being made here, and would like to make things right!

As I stated to Slakker, I would make PRO-RENDER available for free.
As a man of my word, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Even though
I'm not sure the methods are the same, NO WAY would I try to "sell"
PRO-RENDER, and never would have in the first place, if I'd known then,
what I know now.

So, that leaves just one more thing to decide, that being, how best to
distribute and promote this now FREE product. I suggested, the "Free Stuff"
area or Renderosity already, and that should be great, but I think I have a
much better Idea, and it's an idea which again, I would like some feedback on.

What I propose is this...

The website for my business (www.pumeco.com) has been paid for in advance.
But now, because of the change in strategy, it would be idle for a long time,
at least until the completion of the Poser projects I'm developing.
So, why waste it? It could still be the homepage of PRO-RENDER, but with
a totally different strategy.

What I would like to do is dedicate space and bandwidth to PRO-RENDER
on www.pumeco.com However, I would like PRO-RENDER to become a sort of
evolving "open project" as opposed to JUST a product. The name PRO-RENDER
would become public property, to be used as a sort of "by-word" for
anything related to serious Bryce rendering, whether it be files, knowledge,
tips, tricks, tutorials, or pics. Therefore, PRO-RENDER becomes a product
of the best of everything any member has to offer. Just as people might
think of Renderosity when they think about 3D art, people could eventually
think of PRO-RENDER when they think about Bryce rendering, visit the
PRO-RENDER homepage, and hopefully get what they want.

Heres an example of how it could work...

The options included on the official PRO-RENDER homepage might go
something like this...

HOME - NEWS - GALLERY - TUTORIALS - SUBMIT - DOWNLOAD - LINKS

HOME -
This would be the welcome page, and could be used to describe what
PRO-RENDER is all about to newbies etc.

NEWS -
This is where there could be all the latest announcements about the evolving
PRO-RENDER. The announcements could be made by ANYONE who contributes
anything to PRO-RENDER.

GALLERY -
This is where images created with the help of PRO-RENDER, could be displayed.
Images not only by contributors, but also by general downloaders who
have made use of PRO-RENDER in their image.

TUTORIALS -
PRO-RENDER tutorials could go here.

SUBMIT -
This is where people could make a contribution to the PRO-RENDER download.
(Files, Knowledge, Tips, Tricks, Pics)

DOWNLOAD -
This is where people could get the very latest download of PRO-RENDER
for FREE. The download could be updated when needed, as methods and knowledge
evolve. The download could consist of a compressed folder containing
setup files, documentation, and more (all public property).

LINKS -
This is where links to other websites could go.

Well, there you have it, I would consider this for sure, if I thought there
was sufficient enthusiasm for it.

So, I think now, I will give around a week or so to see what happens here.
What I see when I return to this forum, will ultimately make my decisions
for me.

As far as questions go, I apologise for not answering them all at the moment.
I WILL answer them, I promise. Some test screenshots will follow no matter
what happens!

Oh yeh, it was suggested that I thought you where idiot's. Hell, you really
have got the wrong impression. I think it was that "VERY unlikely" bit,
am I right? Well if it is, then I can only hope that, after reading this post,
you will realise it was because I was aware ONLY of those tutorials I
mentioned earlier. That's what made me think it was "VERY unlikely" the
knowledge was out there. So, here's another apology, please don't think
like that, it was'nt meant to give that impression, sorry!

Did someone say Free? Now we're talking, although you probably could have got away with a time limited demo or going shareware.

I think the problem is that you could write an entire novel about what you plan to do, but we are artists, a picture is what we understand. It's ALL we understand. A picture to us says a million words.

As for the emotional response. We are a passionate bunch and Bryce is our religion. Anything new that comes along, we are going to be very suspicious and reluctant to accept it without question.

The problem really comes down to our love of and frustration with Bryce and you've dangled a carrot in front of our noses, but you have forgotten the carrot.

I can understand that you are very proud and excited about what you have achieved, you've just jumped the gun slightly. Once you can let us see it working, all will be forgiven (as long as it does what you've promised) and at that point you will be welcomed with open arms into our very tight community and I will be the first to pat you on the back.

We look forward to tinkering with your package and taking it for a spin. (I still have bryce in my machine and do play with it and you have me intrigued).

ooh sounds interesting. can we gets some screenshots?

I think you've made a good decision, Len, and kudos for thinking it through and not reacting badly to the passions displayed here. I'm pretty excited that you might have overcome the difficulties I was stumped by. The major limitations to True Ambience I couldn't overcome were these: > Mesh surfaces (3d models, not Bryce primitives) lit by True Ambience would not 'smooth'. They always showed faceting, no matter what setting I tried. This meant a potentially perfect 'area' light suitable for beautiful soft lighting of human figures was rendered (ahem) useless. > True Ambience really messed up the appearance of some Bryce boolean combinations. > A surface under True Ambience could only act as a fairly dim source of light, and with abrupt falloff. > Transparent materials had peculiar properties under True Ambient lighting. This lot meant that True Ambience couldn't live up to its potential - and that potential was very high indeed. My explorations led me to believe that the Bryce programmers had developed a giant killing render process, but hadn't had time to incorporate it for release.

Now we see a little bit more light on the subject. From my understanding you didn't actually create a new product but a "new" method of achieving high end program abilities. Similar to all the threads we have here on GI, Fake HDRI, etc. Look forward to seeing how you got around some of the limitations.

Just to clear the air pumeco, I'd written something else and then decided not to post it. Rather than just delete my response, I edited it and put the "never mind" in. No big deal. If you've got something worthwhile to distribute, I'm sure you'll have a loyal following.