I really don't know if any of my 'stuff' fits into the catagory being discussed. Could someone let me know? Thank you! (:

Carol, I don't see anything in your gallery that fall into the mixed category. The only one I would even remotely question is 'Front Door' and even then, it seems the fractal is the main focus. I know I have a few things in my gallery that I question and probably need to be moved.

Yes, I think I try to keep the focal point on all my flames.....because I looooooooooove them! I like to shoooooooow them....oh....lol q-: I think it is more like the people that use them for backgrounds for their Poser and tube-work. I sure hope the group doesn't get broken-up too much.

Carol, I just send you an IM. Cheers Barbara

I feel it is going to really knock a whole in fractals when I use Poser its an accent not the main focus but to keep with the new rules all my posers on fractals have been moved to mixed medium so if anyone doesn't see my work or is even interested check mixed medium.. Thanks Carolyn

I hardly feel that 1 poser image compares to other programs used and 50% of it is more then a fractal 1 poser is not even 1/4 of one image. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Carolyn

Ok lets get this straight ... For it to be in the fractal gallery it has to be a fractal made in any fractal program with only filter work. If it has poser, tubes, bryce, vue, and the like in it then it gose to the mixed media area. Is this right? If not it open a whole new can of beans. What is focal point to me may not be to others. Lets have one set of rules only. A fractal is a fractal nothing but a bit of filter work only.

Hi y'all. Just saw the guidelines. I read what Carol said, above, about hoping the "group doesn't get broken up". I'm concerned about that, too, since we all get along so well here in the fractal gallery and its usually such an upbeat place. I reckon we have to follow the rules, but here's an idea for if we have a "mixed medium" image and want all of our friends here to know and come check it out: Make an image with any old fractal on it and use, like, PSP to put text on it saying that you've posted an image to the MM gallery and post it the day before your MM image or just b4 midnight - then after a couple of days, delete it from your gallery. Like when they call for images for the fractal calendar. That way our friends in the fractal gallery would be sure to know - though e-bots would tell them if they are one of your fave's - and we wouldn't lose touch with each other when we are into a period of doing the MM images. I'd surely not want to miss one of Maria's awesome images that might have a tube. I've been looking for just the right dragon tube for a scene, myself, and it would be nice if folks from my HOME gallery came and talked to it when it got posted all lonely in that scary MM gallery. :>) Posting in the forum might not get seen as much. What do y'all think? Dumb idea? Probably, considering the source - lol - just thought I'd try to make the best of the situation and find a way we can all be happy. Rick

Haha Rick, I love your sense of humor and I totally agree with your concerns about not breaking up the group. We do have a fantastic bunch of people here. I don't think the idea is dumb at all, but it does seem like a lot of work. Why not just add them to your favorite artist lists and then we would receive an email notification when anything by that particular artist has been posted? Especially those like Carolyn, Arend, and Maria that we specifially know uses tubes, poser and the like. Personally, I would love to see 2 fractal galleries. One for fractal only work and one with fractal + other mediums, but I imagine that would be too much work. I'm off to move a few of my renders to the mixed medium gallery now.

Hi all, personally I have been adding people to my favorite artist list because I will be posting in both Fractal and Mixed Medium Gallery, and I don't want to miss out on any beautiful art of my friends here on Renerosity, this is a great community of friends ..Thanks Leda

As for me, I go to the 2D and Mixed Medium galleries every day anyway, along with visiting several other galleries. I even spend a good deal of time in the Photograph gallery too. Now that we know the new rules, just make it a habit of visiting the mixed medium gallery. Besides, think of all the mixed medium artist who might now begin making fractals. :))) Our group will expand.

Hi all First, and foremost, this was not an attempt to break up anything. I would never want to see that happen. Anyone who has talked with me knows that I try my best to be fair, and honest...with EVERYONE. It has recently become very apparent that rules needed to be set. We are only sorting the images according to the way this site is set up. This is a FRACTAL gallery, and therefore, the fractal MUST be the main focus. There is a 'Mixed Medium' gallery here, and it should be utilized. Barbara, and I STRONGLY feel that as the 'Mixed Medium' gallery grows with the Fractal/Other compositions, these works will be better recognized. Still further, we may draw more people to Fractal Art, just by doing this. Besides, there is absolutely nothing wrong with posting a thread here, saying "Hey, come look at my recent 'Mixed Medium' posts", and providing a link. Please understand, this needed to happen. Btw, Rykk, very funny, but I think the forum posting, or Fav list will work better ;) Nick

Nick, I apologize if it seemed that I was grumbling. I completely understand the reason for the new rules and I have absolutely no problem with them. When I said that I agree with Rick's concerns about the group breaking up, I only meant that I understood the reason for his concern. I did not mean to imply that anyone was attempting to break up anything. I also agree with Kansas that this may be a wonderful opportunity for our group to expand. I think a lot of us who posted mix media here did so because this is where we felt most comfortable. But I don't mind moving what few mixed fractals I had. I may even meet some new friends because I posted in the mixed gallery. I think we should all look at this as an opportunity to grow :) You and Barbara both have been doing a wonderful job as moderaters. No complaints here :)

I don't have any problem with the new rule at all, but now I'm second guessing myself on the 'stuff' I make. I don't know if it is alright for the fractal gallery or not. I'll just post it to the fractal gallery, and if anyone thinks it shouldn't be there, please IM me. Thank you! (:

Well, I admit to wondering where certain images ought to go myself. I understand that this did need to happen. As the years go by, I find myself being comfortable with a situation and resisting new changes, and as Rick so humorously pointed out, moving to the MM gallery and out of our comfy, cozy little fractal gallery is a move I wasn't exactly thrilled about. But y'all are right, it can expand the world of fractal art and open up new possiblities to others, as well as ourselves. I visit other galleries on occasion, but not very often, as it takes a lot more time at the pc and away from home and family. I have only used a tube on eight images. On a couple of them, I wouldn't really consider the tube to be the focal point, but that might not be the viewer's opinion. So to be safe and within the new guidelines, does anything with a tube in it, no matter how small, need to be in the MM gallery? And how does one go about changing them over... by using the edit function? Can they all be moved at one time or only one per day? I am a bit unclear about the rule of mapping an object onto a sphere. To me, the transforms that are done totally within Ultra Fractal ... like spheres, eggs, glass hemisphere, and platonic solids, are some of the highlights with which a user can create some very unique effects. And the key, to me, is that these can all be done ~within~ UF, not brought into bryce, psp, or some other program and manipulated. This effect is a part of the image, and might not necessarily be the focal point of the image, but yet very important to the creator in the overall design of the image. One can easily use some of the various "bring it in" programs to use a jpeg image in uf, like an apophysis flame, and then map it onto a sphere. Would that be going against the new guidelines? If the work is done completely in a fractal generating program, it seems to me that any and all parts of that image are completely fractal in nature, and qualify as belonging in the fractal gallery, no matter what the focal point of the image is. Rick, thanks for the kind words. All this talk about tubes and copyrights and galleries has made me hesitate to use any at all now. I would be happy to go over to the MM gallery to keep your dragon from getting too scared and lonely, when you find one to make an image with. :)) Maria

If anyone is using any of my tubes, feel free. I don't believe I've ever used anyone else's tubes on any of my fractal pics, and I make mine all from scratch. Unless I am misunderstanding, we can use tubes 'n' stuff ONLY if they are not the focal point. I take that to mean you can use them if they are not taking your attention away from the flame....but what do I know?! lol (:

I don't see where there are "hairs" to be split here. Its all very straightforward and obvious. The programs a artist uses to generate forms are their MEDIUM. Ultrafractal is A MEDIUM - Poser is A MEDIUM - a camera is A MEDIUM - Bryce is A MEDIUM when PSP is used to generate a tube or form, it is a MEDIUM. Just as paint is a medium separate from pen and ink or granite and marble for sculptors. Use Ultrafractal and Poser to make an image, and you have TWO and therefore, MIXED media. Use Xenodream and Terragen and you have mixed/multiple media used and so forth. However, I don't think it should be disallowed if two FRACTAL media, say Ultrafractal and Xenodream or FE or whatever are used - they are both fractal media and this is a fractal gallery. I don't think its a problem moving things to other galleries; why bother unless you are one of those that has images in the "most" pages - who looks back to page 100 of any gallery, anyhow? I would imagine this stuff would affect new postings mostly.

The distinction is that you are using PSP to modify the appearence of your fractal - NOT as a MEDIUM to generate extra parts of the image. The same would apply for Photoshop filters and sharpeners. The base of the image is the fractal and then one does creative things to it to make a piece of art. I don't think that the things you are speaking of violate the rules as they are written. Using PSP to layer the image isn't a violation, either, for the same reason - its not being used as a MEDIUM to make anything EXTRA, just to layer the fractals you have generated with whatever fractal program. The only thing I think violates the rules is to GENERATE a picture or form for a separate, added layer using a non-fractal medium/program. So I don't think we are disagreeing. Thank you for the welcome, Valcali - there is fantastic art here and I'm going to feel outclassed but I'll get up the nerve, soon. I hope that I haven't peeved anyone; I'm just stating opinions and trying to figure out what the limits are and assume that is the reason for this forum?

Agreed...I do use the program as you say. Well...the post may be gone but the welcome remains! LOL In rereading my post I was afraid it could be misunderstood so I tried (unsuccessfully obviously G) to delete it before it was seen. At least I'm saved having to rewrite it now after dinner! The image rules seem fair and I've already been to the mixed medium gallery a couple times and seen some killer art I'd have missed otherwise. Hopefully the new rules will help keep the focus on the art rather than the medium used. It gets tedious to go round and round about the same thing and takes some of the joy out of participating here. I look forward to seeing some of your work. ;o)

I don't have too much of a problem with the new rules. It just seems to be constrictive, choking the creativity of some of the artist, just because they choose to use a vector or 3D program to enhance a fractal image. So, if I understand the rules right, as long as it is created solely within a fractal program it's OK. What if I had a fractal program that could map images onto a 3D object? It just seems to me that a lot of people are going to miss the opportunity to view images created with new techniques. How long before the changes take effect and offending(couldn't think of another word),images are moved the mixed medium?

hmm... well i use artmatic pro to make fractals which i all dissform, edit and transform in several other programs, i aint gonna change to that MM gallery, just because i use other programs than prescribed in the minds of fractal artists ... the main program to make them fractals is a formula generated program, and what you do after with the fractals, thats your own choice ... so whether ya use Poser or a 3D program or other vector oriented program to make your designs look like something of which you have in your mind, the main thing of the whole design is still a fractal otoh i don't like to have my stuff between nekkid 'designs' in MM they cant make you move to another gallery, just because you use other programs to make fractals... if you use another object than a fractal, like a Poser-character or for instance a car made by LightWave or Maya to flourish up your work, then it's called a MM design and should be published there but a car made by Maya used as reference and make all different fractals on it, to perform a 3D designed fractal car, is still a fractal design and can be published in this gallery smile have a good day, Harmen

Attached Link: http://darkchrystal.spymac.net/

WOW Harmen...that was an impressive show! I love the way that was done...;o)

Right, this is becoming clearer by the hour. In my gallery there are about 10 images, made totaly in Xenodream, a fractalprogram, but by the technique I'm using, containing not one fractal. Is this allowed ? If not, can someone tell me where I should post them? They are not MM by a long stretch of the imagination. Anf if I'm allowed to post non-fractal images made in a fractalprogram, why can't people, who use at least a fractal amongst other elements, post them ? One of these examples is my Alchemy, the secret chamber. I use metamorphs on free holons to create this effect, but as Keith (Deagol) correctly pointed out : "Is there a fractal in there someplace?". The answer is no, but the funny thing is, i could put 10 fractals in it, and nobody would notice any difference to the image... Which brings me to my next point, what if, in a next version of XD, i could transport/transform xepfiles into objfiles, and move them into a 3D application (like Bryce). Would i still be able to do that and post in the fractalgallery. And what if I could in the future bring .objfiles into XD, would that be OK? Would XD then be categorized as a MM program? What if a group of people, who liked tubes, (just as the people from UF liked the idea of layers, of perspective, mapping on spheres, etc...), developed a fractalprogram, where you could also make your own tubes in it, map fractals on those tubes, and layer them? Would that still be considered a real fractalprogram? What I'm trying to say, is that the fractallandscape is evolving fast, and evolution has a nasty habbit of leaving purists behind ... Have a creative day, everyone Dirk

Ok, now I'm confused. I'm still very new to the terminology of fractals. What exactly constitutes a 3-d object in UF? Just spheres or certain types of mapping (such as perspective) also. Plus there's a few others that look 3D to me. (But then again I can't see worth a, well you know:)) And out of curiosity... why are spheres and 3d forms used exclusively from UF considered a mixed medium now? I really don't understand that. I have no problems following the guidelines, just unsure of the 3d part of the guidelines.

the time spent in 2D or 3D progam is really not relevant use the warpfunction and within a millisecond there is less fractal than by spedning hours on a very good mask and dodge and burn 'd suggest to make subgalleries because sofware does evolve a fractal render art >>UF contains layers in blending modes as 2d programs has plugins to bring in whatever image for example<< a fractal render art can be as fractal as fractal art other-wise-specified

If it were my call, I would say that any image generated by software that is mainly used to create fractals, like UF or XD, is fair to post in the fractal gallery.

Once you have read through the guidelines, let your conscience be your guide. The guidelines are already working well. I don't know how much policing that Nick or Barbara have done, but I would be surprised if they have done any, and it's working.

I think that both the mixed medium and the fractal galleries have just gotten upgrades. I was astonished at the beautiful images that I saw when I filtered on mixed medium/fractal. What a waste that I haven't been paying attention to that until now.

Message edited on: 07/29/2004 19:20

Attached Link: About focus and focal points

Very true Keith we never know until we see for ourselves what others can do it certainly is amasing to me and really beautiful work is done in MM.. I'm beginning to see this change as a blessing for both Gallerys, we all need support and friendly comments so for me even though I normally do not post much yet in MM its a pleasure seeing others work just like it is to see the great fractals in the Fractal Gallery.. Have a great day everyone Carolyn

I'm also seeing positive changes. I've seen that fellow fractalers' pieces in the Mixed Medium gallery are getting many views and recognition! Also, they are viewing other mixed medium pieces and getting to know more artists. It is refreshing, since it might also help to get ideas for new collage techniques.

There quite a few gorgeous images in MM, even more now that mixed fractal work has been added :). I think the mixed medium/fractal idea was a great idea. I did understand about the main focus. It was more curiosity in the reasoning, even if it isn't a main focus. I'm always curious, sorry :):). Thanks Deagol for the advice. I think that's what I will do. Of course, if I misplace one someone please just let me know. I'll place them anywhere they go, just want to be sure I know where that is, lol. Thanks guys!

You may want to try what most are doing adding your favorite artists or people who you enjoy their work to your favorite artists list that way you won't loose track you will get a notice that they have uploaded nice to get these and be able to go straight to there work. Have a great evening/day guys Carolyn