just stop....beep beep....end thread,EnD THr.....Boom!

OK. I'm pointing out that they've looked at the wrong thread - that's all. Ah well.

Stephen Ray, I had'nt read your post through, because as soon as I started to, it was obvious that you've got the WRONG thread. And now that I've taken the time to actually read it, the only BS is coming from your direction.

Actually, really, the one Pumeco's talking about is where Drac says he only cares about your opinion if you have art in your gallery, or something like that. Is it possible you read a different thread? I dunno. Share the love. Eat cookies.

Ok lets see...$29.99 for the Boxing Gloves $5 for the Mouth Pieces(Used on a Budget)$5 for the Bandages and $60 for the Alcohol to drink when YOU GUYS finally realize that what you are fighting over is NOTHING...And as FOR breaking apart the BRYCE Community...It aint going to Happen because of SOMETHING Like this...Bottom line is...WHO CARES...Can I see a Show of hands...?If PRORENDER comes out it comes out,If it is a SHAM then it is...The time is NOW for the Bugging of DAZ not each other,We need to show/Ask them what we need,Not show them how we will react when SOMETHING NEW might be coming out... Ok Reality Check....I for one am going to go and have some FUN...Who wants to join the RENDERING...

I'm done, I've said my piece...words from you mean nothing...it's apparent that no matter how many times I say ( Prove It ) you just don't understand what it means.

Agreed. Pro-render is nearly meaningless in the light of DAZ buying Bryce, regardless of the possible techniques. Sorry, Pumeco, but I think you're being very unfriendly about all this. Don't try selling me something that doesn't even exist, I won't buy it. Now back to how much DAZ rules for saving our program! (I hope?!?!)

Pumeco, You are a very detail oriented person. Not everyone here is like that, and make remarks - some rude - without thinking or having an open mind. If you allow PR to be derailed, then they are defeating you. I for one am very interested in Pro Render, and hope you hurry up and crank it out. Some will be mean but I've seen people who didn't like the Matrix Reloaded, Matrix Revolutions . They're not perfect, but those are very cool movies. The Passion of the Christ is a classical painting in motion, and yet some still tried to criticize it - mostly because the Subject is the most controversial Person in history. Release Pro-Render, Pro-Render Xtreme, Hair Base and Skin Base. If people don't like it, they can whine and cry, but you must be happy for your accomplishment. Don't let them defeat you. Ben MessianicArt.com

Pumeco, also, you are too emotionally intertwined with these forums. I was once like this too. Forget about the demeaning "critics". There will always be "critics", but they spend their lives in cynicism, constantly fault-finding, never enjoying life. Release PR, PRX, HB and SB, and ignore those who don't like it. Listen to constructive critiques, your user base, and improve. Perhaps Bryce 6 will further enable you to create some interesting lighting advancements. Just don't let a few naysayers crush your spirit. God bless, Ben

For all we know..DAZ may just be interested in what you doing. It be great that they contact you and have it somewhat integrated it into their newer version of Bryce..gosh!...who knows?

Yes Stephen Ray, ...and I'm done, I've said my piece - and words TO you mean nothing. You posted - I correct you - and you change direction. For your information, and for anyone else for that matter, there's a VERY good reason I can't just give out files to prove things - that's why I post images instead. If you don't like the descriptions I posted - OK! But I suggest that before you start: 1-accusing me of theft 2-derailing accurate demonstrations 3-questioning my ability 4-assuming the extent of my knowledge ...I suggest you get your fact's right. To accuse me of using other peoples materials from the R'osity download area, is to accuse me of theft. I don't need to download anything frome here, DAZ, or anywhere else. I create everything myself, even the TV in the renders was a quickie I modelled for that very reason. I'm a beginner am I? Well, OK if you say so - if 16 years of working with graphics gives beginner status - then yes, OK. I posted the demonstrations in direct response to being ASKED TO DO SO. Because I was TOLD of the problems that could not be overcome. Well, I'm so sorry I even bothered to take the time to demonstrate what was going on - I assumed that's what was wanted. QUOTE:pumeco "Well, as many of us know, imported geometry under true ambiance has smoothing problems. In fact, smoothing the object in Bryce 5 will have no effect on it's smoothness under TA whatsoever." QUOTE:Stephen Ray "Wrong, do you even know how the smooth option works in Bryce. It is totally a render effect. And your having problems with Boolean in Pro Render which are render effects to." LOL God damn it, now I'm really losing face, I'm pretty sure I was right. But hey, congratulations man - let me shake you by the hand. You DO realise that you've just solved the BIGGEST problem with True Ambience - don't you? Personally, I think you don't understand what we were talking about, regarding true ambience and smoothing. Because if you DO understand, I can only assume that there's no such problem for you, and you know something very special indeed. I look forward to seeing how it's done. :-) QUOTE: "do you even know how the smooth option works in Bryce." QUOTE: "Personally I think you are fairly new to 3D graphics. You have an arrogance about you." QUOTE: "And after looking at some of your, examples. I'm taking serious consideration, that the base of your materials, came from materials that were downloaded right from the Renderosity free stuff area." LOL Sorry , but at what point do the members here consider it fair for me to draw the line? - 'cos I just can't tolerate much more bulls**t. I'm preparing a NEW thread to be posted in the next couple of days. It should put an end to the suspicions and accusations once and for all. Len. PS: Thank's to the believers among you, your trust WILL be rewarded.

( Quote ) I'm preparing a NEW thread to be posted in the next couple of days. It should put an end to the suspicions and accusations once and for all. That's all I want is Proof...that this is a technique you came up with, and not knowledge or information already freely exchanged in the community. I'm not going to argue with you about words like ( serious consideration....3D....imported geometry smooth options ) Believe it or not I take no pleasure or joy in any of this. You posted in this community over 2 months ago. Yet your still dangling your toy over peoples head seeing how high they will jump. ( as this tread is proof of ) Up until a couple of days ago, your treads barley heard from me. And now, until you give me proof that I can test and evaluate for myself, they will not here from me again. If I am wrong I will be the first to announce it. To all members of the Bryce Renderosity Forum, I apologize if I offended any of you. One thing I like about this forum is most people here, do not walk around patting each other on the back telling one another how great they are. When credit is given here, it has been earn and is due. Which tell me it is not a Clique type place.

"I'm not going to argue with you about words like ( serious consideration....3D....imported geometry smooth options )" -no, because your mouth got the better of you, and you've just discovered that you were wrong.

Pumeco... The fact that you didn't render any of your non-ProRender examples with render effects that would be comparable to Pro-Render does indeed make be believe that you are very new to the CG community idea. If you're trying to market something like PRO-RENDER, show us how it's BETTER than the normal Bryce way of acheiving the same effects. Until you can do that without proving to me that you're feeding everyone some serious bullshit, i'm going to believe that you do, in fact, have a VERY limited knowledge of Bryce, how it works, and how the engine can be bent and stressed to create the effects (often much more succesfully than your demonstrations.) And I will continue to "derail accurate demonstrations" until your demonstrations are ACCURATE. Not one thing you've done actually shows the difference between your way of doing it, and the way we've all been doing it. You simply show the difference between your way, and a default bryce render without any of the appropriate effects activated. Grow up.

"...i'm going to believe that you do, in fact, have a VERY limited knowledge of Bryce, how it works, and how the engine can be bent and stressed to create the effects (often much more succesfully than your demonstrations.)" -whatever it is you might be taking, it's f**cking good stuff! "...You simply show the difference between your way, and a default bryce render without any of the appropriate effects activated." -yes, because a DEFAULT Bryce render does not include TA and SOFT SHADOWS (reinstall Bryce and check). I was ASKED, to give THOSE type of comparisons, and that is what I gave. Grow up.

It certainly would be fun to reverse the Opel Blitz up to the gathering, pull up the canvas and let rip with the MG42, but - - too much chance of collateral damage. (and too much holiday perspective rendering this whole thing rather silly) I would like to think that draculaz (or anyone) and I should be able to scratch each other's eyes out without someone else feeling the need to suspend their project. Such a drastic step should be taken entirely in that person's interests and not in my name. I responded to drac's post because I knew Len wasn't around to defend himself due to being focussed on completing PRO-RENDER. I responded with hostility because it was yet another attack based on ignorance. Accusing someone of 'bullshit' is one thing (plus being a personal attack under the TOS, or so I've been told by senior staff here), but such an accusation primed by misinformation is quite another. Having been previously made aware that there are alternative views of the so-called 'bullshit' (plus links to evidence), it behoves a person to investigate the facts rather than continue to spurt vitriolic accusations. That's the kind of hysteria better suited to subjective religious ranting than CGI technique/product discussions; which benefit more from straightforward empirical methodology like - actually reading threads in the Renderosity Bryce forum. With the latter in mind, I'd like to address a question above by Slakker: ++++++++++ "PJF, where the hell did you get that True Ambience was involved?" ++++++++++ I got it from the original PRO-RENDER thread: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1822731 In post 40, I asked, "Does "PRO-RENDER" use True Ambience?" In post 45, pumeco answered, "The PRO-RENDER method uses true ambience..." It wasn't via hell; it was really quite straightforward - I simply read what pumeco wrote. I'm not sorry if that sounds patronising - it's meant to be. You were present in that thread; the facts were there for you to see. The same goes for all the shrieking here. Other than the absolute specifics, Len/pumeco has explained what PRO-RENDER is. If anyone doesn't get it, it's purely down to them. Reading the facts will reassure all but the most desperately insecure that PRO-RENDER is entirely unthreatening, and incapable of "splitting up the Bryce Community".

What I'm amazed at is the number of people who're prepared to expose their asses. EVEN if you suspect something mightn't come off, why rush into print and risk looking like a gobshite if it turns out to be everything Pumeco has claimed? And, to say again......maybe the same effects could be achieved by those who're very experienced in the intricacies of Bryce - but lots of us here aren't that experienced, and would welcome/purchase anything that gives us a little push forward, and makes our images look a bit better. Would anyone not interested in ProRender just ignore it?

Forgive me, I haven't read ALL of this yet, but its obvious something needs to be done. ;o( AgentSmith