" I would like to point something out here tho..open gl will not read a negative item (like boolean) so take that for what its worth. Only a raytracer can do that...well, maybe not "only", but open gl cant." Er, brycetech, maybe I'm misunderstanding things, but I just checked Cinema. It's got OpenGL 'rendering' in working views, and in Gouraud Shading mode, it shows booleaned items correctly. And you see the textures. Well, kinda. :-) But it's a quick and dirty display. What OpenGL doesn't show is reflections. So IIUC, what's to prevent people from DAZ doing that OpenGL thingy that Cinema has?

I don't want anything in the bundle. I have Bryce 5 and full versions of all of the figures, and more fairy stuff than I care to be reminded of. I do want the coupons though and more than likely will upgrade Bryce as long as the price remains under $100. DAZ needs to offer a "Brycer who has everything" bundle.

Most of the items, the LE items anyway, were free at one point before for a limited time. Where you might get some value is in the $50.00 coupon good for new items, plus the $30.00 coupon towards the 5.5 upgrade. If there isn't anything at DAZ that you want, then maybe the $50.00 isn't worth much. Keep in mind though, that the $50.00 in coupons is only $50.00 if you buy before Sept 27th (otherwise it is only $25.00), AND it is only good for 30 days from date of purchase. Long story short, I have no idea whether this is a good deal or not! It will depend on the user, and somewhat on the final upgrade price of 5.5 which we have no idea about. Final note, no one is forcing anybody to get the bundle. DAZ isn't going to expend resources towards something unless they expect to make a profit. That's business.

Erlik - I think bryce's booleans are a bryce rendering effect rather than being a true boolean operation that alters the mesh. Thats why they may not show up as expected in this new version of bryce's opengl... I think thats what bryetech was hinting at (though I could be wrong).

Good software companies take care of their user base....bottom line. This is a excellent offer for those who are just purchasing Bryce and Daz content. But what about the users who already have B5, Turbo Importer, Vic & Mic 1, 2, & 3. and most of the Mil Animals and creatures. And are already PC members, this offer really holds no incentives, other then the offer of an upgrade path. Or the users who could care less about Daz content, and only want the upgrade for the render improvements. I think it would be in DAZ best interest to try and accommodate all of the current user base, while also trying to expand it's user base. Sure you can't please all of the people, but I see it as being ludicrous to not give every registered user of Bryce 5 some sort of upgrade path to version 5.5. Especially since they have been selling the 5 version of Bryce. I recall an instances where a similar situation had occurred. Not only did the company offer an upgrade path from the version they had acquired. But it was the full price of the current selling price of the software. Sure the people who paid 3 times as much the year before complained. But that was a very good offer from the new owners. IMO, Daz should offer an upgrade path for every B5 owner, for half of the current selling price of the software. That is fair to the people who just bought B5 from Daz, and the long term users who paid full price 2 or 3 years ago. And they should continue to offer bundle deals for all those interested. But there are many type users. All of who's needs should at least be considered. If this is the only upgrade path to follow, than the price of Bryce 5.5 should definitely be under $100 before the discount. So those who choose this path will pay under &70. That's my 2 cent

thanx flak, exactly what I meant. I personally could care less about open gl. But the render speed-up is something bryce has needed for a long time. And for those worrying out there..its only code optimization, not a new renderer. So it should be the exact same pict as your used to, only faster. I dont envy daz their challenge here. Dan Farr posted a nice reply about all this at the daz forum. Basically saying, they hear you and they will try to find some kind of solution. I know if I'd spent the cash they have, have to fix the program while paying programmers...I'd want my investment to come back soon. Add it up...even at conservative dollars, itd easily hit 1.5 mil. A business must make money. The only ones that dont are Government based. I'd ask that noone be hung by their thumbs until all is said and done. Bryce lives...and for now, that's good enough for me. Give DAZ the chance you'd ask for if you were in their shoes. :) BT

heck..I'll just have to wait to see what 5.5 can do before I worry about how much it costs..I've seen the screamin' that went on in the Poser forum when they rushed Curious Labs to release, and then all the complaining when they had to do bug fixes..it does teach one patience. I've been pefectly happy with the 'obsolete' versions of Cinema, Poser, Vue, etc., that I've got from the British 3d mags, so we'll just see. Anyone remember the 'don't buy any version that ends in '0'? ..;)

Well put Stephen Ray .... DAZ can really screw themselves and the 'pre DAZ' owners of BRYCE 5 if they do not offer a very decent upgrade path to 5.5. It seems to me that DAZ figures that the only use for BRYCE is to couple it with their POSER addon offerings. This is a bad stance for DAZ to take, I strongly suspect that the bulk of BRYCE owners do not import POSER figures into their scenes, though some obviously do. I foresee were E-ON will be offering a steeply discounted upgrade path to their new offering for previous owners of BRYCE. As VUE continues to move forward, despite some buggy little problems, which all software seem to have, BRYCE may well become a stepchild in the DAZ catalog, its only purpose being to sell more POSER addon offerings.

Thanks for posting agentSmith

So, let me get this straight. I spent $150 or so on Bryce4 4 years or so ago. Upgraded to B5 days after DAZ bought it for $32 after vouchers and whatnot. Will almost certainly get 5.5 when it becomes available(now in beta testing I hear)
Now I can get Turbo Import Plugin(again), 3D Starter Content for DAZ|Studio - 100 MB's, $30 Discount on Bryce 5.5, 1 Month Membership in the Platinum Club, Up to a $50 coupon good on any DAZ|Original in the store(including Platinum Club), Plus the 3D Starter Content for Poser - 100 MB's

Sitting on the place order page, $42 before the $37 coupon from a cancelled order, um for $5.43 outa my pocket right now, I can turn a $37 coupon into a $50 coupon and get $30 off B5.5 and free stuff.

I don't see how DAZ is evil. They're practically paying me to use their products.

Message edited on: 09/19/2004 00:23

Stepchild? Rofl, very doubtful, imho. Studio and Bryce will be VERY complimentary to one another, after meeting with DAZ, I can see that is very much a goal. But, they will remain two seperate programs, and come on...Bryce will always be Bryce, SO much is possible with it, its just impossible for it to be anyone's stepchild. ;o) (I'm sure most Brycers would agree) I had talked with DAZ about more Bryce specific products, that I would like to see more of them, and I'm sure they would too. (Products that really have nothing to do with figures.) It's just going to take more time. And, again...it's no secret DAZ sells figures, always has, and Bryce has been used forever as better rendering option for users who like to create figure based artworks...so, the presence of figure/Bryce combo's packages are here to stay. Like I said, no matter what company bought Bryce, they would be combining it with what they already sold. Yet also, as you have seen, DAZ hears us, and replies. They actually communicate with the Bryce users, so give'em the benefit of the doubt, I say. We still have a while until B5.5 is available, plenty of time for you all to tell DAZ what's on your mind. ;o) And, it's truly not a front, they do want to hear from users. AgentSmith

"I foresee were E-ON will be offering a steeply discounted upgrade path to their new offering for previous owners of BRYCE." As I remember, they did offer a sidegrade. Of course, I don't know what the result was, but it was not so steep. "As VUE continues to move forward, despite some buggy little problems, which all software seem to have, BRYCE may well become a stepchild in the DAZ catalog, its only purpose being to sell more POSER addon offerings." Secondly, as AS says, there is an existing interest in Bryce among the users of Poser, and vice versa. If not so, there wouldn't have been Grouper or MeTaL Fixer. No, a stepchild wouldn't be overhauled, like they do with Bryce. Nor wouldn't have a development plan.

They took my order for the non platinum club upgrade and only charged me $41.96 because after the order they gave me the discount so it didn't cost me the $59.95 :)

I have a strange feeling: anybody of you owned an Amiga? 7-8 years ago was a computer miles away from other Pc, with a large and active community, but died because of there were no upgrades in hardware and OS for a long time. When finally someone (after promising incredible features) released a very expensive motherboaerd with a PowerPc processor and new OS, there was (quite) no software compatible, and many users had switched to other OS (Ok many Amiga orphans are now in the linux area - the only reason because I give my money to unkle Bill is that Photoshop and Bryce don't run so fast in Linux). After Corel didn't want to upgrade Bryce, I thougt it would follow a foxilizing process like Amiga. It still hurts, sorry. I hope only our Bryce will not follow the same destiny. P.S.: Amiga is still enjoiable, only reaaly slow for current standards.

wishes there was bromide in the water supply

Isn't this the sort of thing other big software companies do all the time? I'm not too fussed about paying full price for Bryce5.5 as I got my copy of Bryce5 very cheap (40) thats the beauty of being friends with the manager of the software store ;)

Can I go home now??????? All I know is whatever it does or does'nt have its going to cost me double what everyone else pays. "damn screwed again". Cheers GG 8(

"Well, tough. If you feel closer to DAZ than you do to the principle of Renderosity Bryce Forum members debating their concerns about Bryce, maybe you should consider your position."

LOL!!

Hey, the man was only voicing his own opinion regarding the debates that were taking place in the thread (which weren't even debates until then... only negativity). It was no different than those voicing their opposing/skeptical views about DAZ.

Good thing mods don't ban people for being wiseasses.
Message edited on: 09/19/2004 07:20

/* AS / I sincerely hope that DAZ has started their venture with BRYCE with the intentions of FULLY supporting BRYCE and not just using BRYCE as a tool to push DAZ addons. I have no problem with DAZ sell addons, I have bought a hell of a lot of them, and up until about two months ago I have been a member of PC, but since they continue to whore out the PC club membership on special occasions, I saw no need to pay each month and maybe not buy something. Now all I need to do is wait for them to run a 'special'. I agree that DAZ listens VERY intently when their customers speak, I know, I have had several informative and problem resolving conversations with them. The result always being to my benifit. I have no complaints there. What I do not understand, is why DAZ would take a stance that they will not support or offer any incentive to pre DAZ owners of BRYCE. They are telling me and others that since we did not buy the DAZ copyright of BRYCE that they will not be doing anything for us. To make it even worse, they are basically forcing you to buy a 'bundled package', which for many of us, contains addons that we already have, just so we can get a discount on a product which does not even have a announced price. Not a smart business move on the part of DAZ. So it really does not matter what DAZ does with BRYCE or how well they support it, because at present, it is only worth a damn if you buy their 5.5 version at full price. Not trying to have a fight here AS, buy DAZ put the writing on the wall, and I have read it to be that they will abandon those who have are using the COREL BRYCE. / ERLIK */ I do not know how well E-ON did with their offer, my point is this. They are not fools, they watch the industry just as close as any other business does. If they see that DAZ is abandoning a part of their potential customer base, then they are very likely to offer an upgrade path for any disenfranchised users of pre DAZ BRYCE. When someone jumps to another program, they generally do not return to the previous program. Once again, not trying to start a fight or 'troll for trouble', I just do not think DAZ has thought this out very well.

They aren't forcing you to buy the bundle. If you have everything, then you aren't going to benefit from this since they are offering a $30.00 discount for more than $30.00. Of course, they are offering an additional coupon, but if there isn't anything you want within the 30 days after purchase of bundle, then that doesn't help. DAZ isn't even offering anything special for those who did buy Bryce 5 from them. We're all in the same boat. It comes down to if you want anything else at DAZ or not. If not, save your money as it will be cheaper to buy 5.5 at full price than to spend more than $30.00 for $30.00 off. For me, it was worth it. Each has to judge for themselves.

All very confusing to me and I'm on my second bottle of Advil already! Bottom line for me is that I DON'T want their Poser bundle. I have some of those things already anyway. What I would prefer to have is just the upgrade to Bryce, period...but from what I can gather from their explaination and the info from here, this isn't going to happen. If this is truly the case, then I'm out. I'll just stick to my Bryce 5.

Ardiva... same here, all I really want is a fairly priced upgrade path to 5.5 and nothing else attached to it. I strongly suspect that there are many many others that will be looking forward to a 5.5 upgrade. When they find out that there will be no option other than to buy 5.5 at full price there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth. Some like you and I will stay at version 5, some will bitterly buy 5.5 and some will move on to other programs. I really believe that folks need to understand that the potential is here to loose your upgrade path because you did not buy the DAZ version of BRYCE. As DAZ moves forward in their development of BRYCE it could very well work out that COREL BRYCE 5 users will not be able to use anything that is designed for DAZ BRYCE 5.5 and beyond. I still remember what CL did with their move from POSER 4 to POSER 5. Folks really need to think about this and they certaintly should contact DAZ and express their concerns. DAZ does listen to their customers.

Sorry AS and others that side with DAZ on this. Yes I'm happy that DAZ has taken over and upgrading Bryce with needed features but I bought 4 and then the upgrade to 5 for a total of almost $200. I don't see enough in 5.5 to pay full price for essentially a patch! I'll wait for Bryce 6 to see if it offers more to make the price worthwhile.

Exactly Aldaron. :)

Aldaron, right, I myself picked up Bryce 4.0 from an online store for under $100 at the time, then an upgrade to 5.0 cost me another $100. $200 spent. (The one BIG factor that we are missing in these discussions is the actual price for Bryce 5.5, not a package deal price or any of that, just 5.5 by itself. Once that comes out, users can make a better decision.) But, lets imagine this; A piece of landscape software costs $250 (Vue, MojoWorld). An upgrade to that software costs $150. That's = $400. For newer users, Bryce 5.0 cost them $60-$70...what's the 5.5 "upgrade" going to cost = ? Older users of Bryce 4.0 payed $100 to upgrade to 5.0, and the 5.5 upgrade is going to cost = ? Like I said once we can plug in that 5.5 price point, we can make better decisions, lol. I think my point is though, that it COULD end up costing far less than it would in a normal upgrade situation. Wait and see. AND...of course, not to forget, you each will have to make the decision if 5.5 is what you want or not, maybe you will just wait for 6.0 AgentSmith

Baba - nah, no fight. ;o) DAZ Fully supporting Bryce - I would have to say yes they are and will. But, Bryce is obviously just a different beast than Studio or Poser, I mean as long as we have a comapny updating/upgrading the software part...the users will be basically happy! (Poser and Studio are FAR more needing of a steady flow of new content) "They are telling me and others that since we did not buy the DAZ copyright of BRYCE that they will not be doing anything for us. -I think ANY pre-owners of Bryce that WON'T be buying one of the DAZ packages, are in the same financial situation(?) I don't think there is any difference between Corel buyers and DAZ buyers of Bryce(?) "COREL BRYCE 5 users will not be able to use anything that is designed for DAZ BRYCE 5.5 and beyond." Oh, totally untrue. You can hold me to that. DAZ will make it so Bryce 4-5 content can be used in 5.5, not to worry! AS

AS, in that last statement, I don't think he means that preious items won't work in 5.5, but that new items won't work with previous versions. That is common amoung most software, not just Poser. If DAZ was to maintain complete compatibilty amoung all versions, Bryce would never grow or get better.

Oh...okay. Wow, I don't know...how cool would it be to have a scene file, mat, etc, created in 5.5 that would also work in 4.0? Probably not possible without changing the code to 4.0 ;o( AS

AS .... I sincerely hope that BRYCE becomes the flagship software for DAZ and a profitable one at that and I appreciate you taking time to clarify matters. Having read many, not all of the posts regarding this subject at the DAZ BRYCE forum, it is clear that DAZ has no intention of offering a upgrade path to 5.5 for CORAL BRYCE owners. Steve Kondris has stated this very clearly in one of the threads. Their reasoning being that they, DAZ, did not receive any of the moneies from the previous CORAL version of BRYCE. I consider this to be a very hard slap to the face. I would have paid a fair price to upgrade to 5.5, but damned if I will buy 5.5 all over again at full price. In short, DAZ can benefit from an upgrade price from me and many others or they can loose out all together. Some money is better than no money. Folks really need to read the posts over at the DAZ froum for BRYCE, there are posts in several different groups so look around. Look for posts by ORIO, he makes a very clear case for what I am attempting to explain. Apparently DAZ fully intends to develop and support BRYCE well into the future, but they have left me and probably many thousands more out in the cold with this decision about 5.5. I am glad there are no hard feelings between us, I just do not think that DAZ has thought this out very well.

Baba.....I've just recently purchased Bryce from Daz & I'm in the same boat as everyone else, so it's NOT just Corel Bryce purchasers it's ALL purchasers.

By the reading of Dan Farrs post, I don't think all this is set in stone as of yet and he clearly states that no preferntial treatment will be given to Corel/Daz purchasers of Bryce.

Bottom line for me & I think for most people is that we want our upgrade path WITHOUT having to go thru the other hoopla, for whatever our persnal reason may be ie. Poserization of Bryce, we already have everything in the bundle etc. Oh and by the way..Daz does not posess very good communication skills, this fact is well known, as they tend to make these types announcements on Fridays & leave the forums & people to bitch thru out the weekend. Usually on Mondays is when all "clear" thinking happens & the dust settles. This is typical. So...as annoyed as I am, I have HOPES that tomorrow the smoke will clear & questions & upsets will be solved.

Message edited on: 09/19/2004 17:17

Does anyone know if they have said when a price point for (just) 5.5 will be announced? AS

No, AS...this is part of the problem :) It is driving rumor/innuendo & speculation. In addition, the FULL specs on the upgrade not being FULLY released.

Message edited on: 09/19/2004 17:18

Thought about it some more. Even though I was not happy with the bundle content since I had most of the items, it was still a good deal to pay around $32 bucks (I had some vouchers and a coupon, plus PC discount) to get a $50 coupon now and $30 off Byrce 5.5 later. I KNOW I will update. I HAVE to. It's a 3D addiction. Anyway. I broke the store. Credit card payments are down again - paid with PayPal. Now the whole site is down...

As stated above.

dlk30341 .... like Ardive I am on my second bottle of Advil, perhaps I should be on my second bottle of Scotch? :)

I have reread the .pdf that DAZ has advise all to read before they make a purchase concerning these bundles and in the introduction section they do state that they want to treat everyone the same, regardless of who we purchased BRYCE from.

Part of the problem is this, when you read the comparison charts in the same .pdf, you quickly see that if you DO NOT purchase a bundle of some type you will be paying FULL price for the .5 point release of BRYCE. So yes, in that sense we are all being treated the same. But I am having a hard time getting past the statement by made by Steve Kondris. Not trying to argue here, just trying be clear about what I have read at the DAZ forum.

What has gotten people a bit miffed about the matter is that basically you have to buy Poser content, whether you want it or not, just to get a $30 off voucher for the point release of BRYCE.

In may case and in the case of many others, we already have the content that is being offered and I, like you and many others just need an upgrade path. Let us hope that for our benefit that DAZ will rethink their position on this matter. :) edit : so true about their communication skills, I too am hoping that by sunset tomorrow, they have cleared the smoke. :)

Message edited on: 09/19/2004 17:46

Baba...that's my miff...I want the upgrade without the other "stuff" Dan Farr posted a thread in the Commons yesterday in response to all this mess. That's where I'm getting the other parts from. However, even in his message, it was should I say less than clear, & has gotten people even more upset, if you can imagine, by just 1 of his statements.

"In addition, the FULL specs on the upgrade not being FULLY released." Beta-Testing is gearing up, I'm betting they will wait until that is finished to do any other spec disclosure. They don't want to promise something that doesn't work. AgentSmith

AS...still it would be nice to know "goals" so to speak...what we hope to accomplish with 5.5 & so on for other upgrades down the road.

OTOH...I can see your point...God forbid, they relase a new version & something isn't working o.O. At that point, I think I'll just go offline for a while LOL ;)

Message edited on: 09/19/2004 18:09

dkl30341... Yeah, I can imagine that :) As mentioned previously by you and AS, we really do not know what the cost of the 5.5 release will be. If DAZ cuts it close to the offered voucher, say within 10 or 15 dollars, then they can bail themselves out and many BRYCERs will likely jump at the opportunity. They could also enhance the current offer by letting the user select the items they really need. Certainly there would probably be some imposed selection criteria or guidelines but this path would probably drag in the disgruntled oldtimers that already have the content that is being offered in the present bundles. It might even drag me in, even though I do not really need more Poser content, but hey, it is always nice to have a new toy, even if you do not think you will use it much. We will see what Monday holds for us. :)

Personally, I think if they wanted to generate more revenue for Bryce, they should get rid of that lame Special Interest area in the store & devote it to Bryce content. Quite frankly, I'm surprised they haven't lured more makers of Bryce goodies to do such things.

Message edited on: 09/19/2004 18:19

I know what you mean, that is why I felt that they were using BRYCE to push POSER content. It seems that what they are doing is trying to raise revenue, can't fault them for that, but you are right, they would have done well by offering BRYCE content.

The Dan Farr post dlk30341 mentions definitely hinted that they may think again as regards an upgrade path for Bryce5.5. Which just goes to show the benefit of customer bitching and moaning and ranting as a useful strategy over acolyte/apostle faith and fawning admiration. Sufficient numbers of long established Bryce users looking to move to Vue5 will raise more of a blood pressure response at DAZ than the usual suspects humping their corporate leg.

But having said that, although DAZ does listen to customers, in the end they will go most with a strategy that works for them (and quite properly; as a business they'd be mental to do anything else). So far, the strategy that works for DAZ is what I referred to above as 'endlessly selling shit'. The term 'shit' in this irreverent context means 'stuff', not 'crap' - I should have made that very clear (slap me now). DAZ makes bloody excellent 'shit' most of the time.

For example, the Victoria3 figure (base plus morphs) is absolutely fantastic. It's so good that DAZ has sold it many times over, in the form of Michael3, Stephanie3 and David (plus the Freak), to willing but relatively 'unsophisticated' customers. Those 'add-on' items cost as much (or damn near) as Victoria3 itself, yet there was very little about them that couldn't have been done as 'character' updates to Victoria3. Those of us who investigated the male option of Victoria3 (including paying money to DAZ...) know that there is nothing special about Michael3, etc, at all...

And the above paragraph of 'Poser' twaddle is presented to show my concerns about DAZ owning Bryce, and why I think their ownership will probably present such a radical change to Bryce as to, er, 'render' it a very different prospect to what most of us 'established' users are familiar with.

What I am suggesting is that DAZ is very likely indeed, based on its previous actions, to frequently offer quite limited improvements to Bryce whilst charging the full whack for them. The so-called "5.5 version" is a case in point. It should be obvious that this is an extremely humble update. Yet it is clear that DAZ expects, based on its previous experience with 'Poser' users, to be able to charge rather a lot of money for it (30 dollars off of what exactly?).

And they may well be able to do so. If enough of their current ('Poser') customer base takes up Bryce, then they will have little need to pay attention to the established Bryce user base that expects a more 'traditional' route to product development. If enough of the 'doll collectors' (buyers of endless shit) adopt Bryce, then it's the end for the rest of us.

It's no good protesting that DAZ have 'rescued' Bryce if all they've done is take it in a direction that few of 'us' want it to go in.

Militant agitation is what is needed to make the 'traditionalist' case. DAZ is used to some (but not sufficient) of its 'Poser' customers being a little bit reactionary at times. What 'we' need to do is make them realise that we are completely fcking insane when it comes to people fcking with our beloved 3D application.

Blind faith by those enthused by 'backroom' promises isn't going to cut it.

Winning the case over the upgrade path to Bryce5.5 is the first and primary battle, and as such is absolutely vital to the future of Bryce. If DAZ gets away with its usual practises, we're screwed for the future. Stand up NOW for DAZ adopting the normal pricing strategy for Bryce upgrades.

Or lose Bryce to the 'doll collectors'.

Rofl, I'm blonde not blind. ;o) (j/k) No, your point is well taken. A little hardcore, lol, but definetely understandable. Bryce users NEED to tell DAZ what you want, period. We are the Bryce buyers and users, outsiders have even described Bryce as a cult program because of its hardcore users. ;oD We are our own breed. And, all this discussion is almost/nearly moot, we need to see the future to truly see the situation, and that future could still be 2-3 months away. But discussion is good. AS

Goals for 5.5, I think we have heard the major ones, OpenGL, compatibility between Studio and Bryce, and way improved rendering speeds. Are their others? Not sure myself at this point... Goals for 6.0 - All that is still secret, but it will be the major upgrade Brycers have been wanting. The upgrade will take a while to complete. It is still halway being referred to as "Super Bryce". And, from what I heard (and didn't hear) from DAZ at Siggraph, it truly could be super. More Bryce content - yup, I agree. And, you will see more Bryce related stuff rom DAZ in the future, just nothing that can be discussed publically right now. In fact, with what free time I do have once in a while I have been working on my own little stuff. Something that Bryce users would love, and even something that could be used in conjunction with figures if you wanted to. I'm refering to Bryce built meshes, but perhaps if the content was good enough quality they would carry sky, dte mat packs, etc. Really, all in hopes that more Bryce users will start making their own Bryce content, whether it is for sale at DAZ, at Renderosity, or just Freestuff in general, imho. AgentSmith

Whoa Nelly!!! Now that's a rant O.O. I think Orio is doing a fine job in the bitching area to keep things on track over their ;) LOL.....

I know I'm going to regret this, but.....

Now PJF....am I to understand that you to use Poser, it reads that way from your diatribe :), so you too collected "dolls"???? If not ignore my mini speech ;).

I use Poser and quite frankly I don't like being called an unsophisticated doll collector. I don't do nudes/swords/toons(I prefer nature scenes)...things of this nature, this is why I chose to add Bryce to my toolbox. I do "normal" everyday type scenes. Right now I'm using Vue, but tinkering with Bryce to try & get a feel for the program. I'm a firm believer in having many tools to accomplish the end goal of the image I have in my mind. All programs have their pros & cons...so I will NEVER berate any program or their users. So please be a tad more gentle, not all Poser users are kids, I'm a 44 year old woman. As far as unsophistcated, well I fully admit I'm totally ignorant of modeling an object from scratch...OTOH...I'm 100% done buying "dolls". I have enough stuff, that right now if Poser collapsed, I'd have enough to render & work with till the day I die and since I smoke ;) LOL(not funny really).

Message edited on: 09/19/2004 19:27

Heh.

dlk30341, I absolutely AM an unapologetic Poser user - just ask draculaz what I think to Poser bashers. ;-)

But that doesn't mean I haven't noticed what's happened to the Poser scene over the last year or so. 'Poser' (for want of a better word, 'cos it's a lot bigger than just that program) has exploded into what I think is fair to call 'doll collecting'.

I'm not a 3D snob. I'm as happy for horny 14 year olds to wank themselves silly over tittie piccies as I am for people to make house-mouse houses, or for extremeophiles to build every damn little thing from scratch in their back-bedrooms and end up creating something better than the Mona Lisa. It's all part of a damn fine creatively and market driven world as far as I'm concerned.

But what suits buyers and collectors doesn't necessarily suit creators.

I'll use Poser figures (the DAZ stuff being by far the best) because I'm shite at 3D modelling, not because I like owning all the 'stuff'. I'm not getting wrapped up in the Platinum Club game again, not even for Bryce. I'll not pay DAZ more money to 'save' less money. That marketing approach properly and fairly suits the happy 'collectors', not the 'creatives' who may suffer from technical limitations.

I'm a capitalist. To me, 'doll collecting' is good. DAZ are currently bloody good at serving that market. But sometimes the needs of one market sector will clash badly with the needs of another. I think Bryce, as currently used, will suffer by being subsumed into what DAZ currently prospers by.

I want some clear blue water between Bryce and 'doll collecting' - rendered at least at 2048 rays per pixel with every premium effect going. I'll pay DAZ real money for that ability, but not in excruciating increments and not in conjunction with piles of other 'shit'.

I am a recalcitrant old bastard. I stand up for what I think is best. I respect everyone else's opinions, even if I appear to urinate all over them while the fight is hot. Sorry for that.

NP, PJF...the older I get the bitchier I get...I'll blame it on hormones ;). I do see your point however. This is what I don't to happen: All Bryce related stuff is released in D|S format that FORCES everyone to use D|S. This I have no interest in, and IMHO, would be a bad marketing strategy. Is this what you are refering to...I think it is. But it's still too early for me to put on my tin foil hat :) LOL

@PJF "And they may well be able to do so. If enough of their current ('Poser') customer base takes up Bryce, then they will have little need to pay attention to the established Bryce user base that expects a more 'traditional' route to product development. If enough of the 'doll collectors' (buyers of endless shit) adopt Bryce, then it's the end for the rest of us." ========================= Altho I disagree with you about being a Poser 'doll collector', I have to agree with you about the rest of your above statement.

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=82701#82701

hey guys/gals Its nice to see you all get along...:P I was afraid this topic was gonna start a war. LOL But brycers are a great lot. Ive dealt with you all from way back when..and Ive never met a brycer I didnt like :) We are a bit protective of "our" software. But DAZ has an upperhand on this because they've dealt with the poser community for years...so they have an idea what they are getting into. I have to believe they'll do right by all of us. In the end tho, they are a business so they gotta do what it takes to keep afloat. Nice bunch too, very playful with one another and its great to see people who work together do that. But one just has to look at their bio page to see that they are a playful lot (move your mouse over their pictures). The "lissa's" (melissa and alyssa) as Chris Creek called them are beautiful girls..and very pleasant to be around. Steve and Dan were as entertaining and playful as any teenager. And Chris..damn, this guy can bench press over 600 lbs...and even at that, he was softspoken and very very likeable. (just putting a face on them for you). :) BT