Well I had written this before Michelle had posted and had to attend a photography competition but I am going to post it anyway. (and now edited to reflect that) Sorry if you dont like it but I feel obliged to air my final opinion, I have always respected rules and authority and never question it unless asked (we have been asked, so here it is. There have been many good arguments and one or two off the wall comments (not going into specifics publicly) and an excellent summing up, so in the traditional sense there should now be a conclusion. A can of worms has been opened and the clean up will be difficult. It would seem that two of the three forum editors were in fact caught off guard, so I am wondering if this was discussed prior to the start of this posting. Would this have happened a month ago? Maybe but my guess in probably not! In the end we all have the choice to be as creative as we se fit and if that means using 21st centaury technology then so be it. I have a car so I dont walk to work as my dad had to, he had no choice but I have. Here PS/PSP is the medium of choice so use it to your advantage! The rules have now been re-iterated in full by the author so use them or loose them, The choice is yours to make powers that be Now the question is what happens next, either a new set of rules are written and followed closely, you use the already excellent rules or in true world leader style just ignore it make empty promises and do a u turn, and hope it will go away. (It wont now) Alternative Misha you could just delete the original posting, and make the rest of this irrelevant as you have done in the past. This has done little else other that divide a great community, and splitting the galleries further will make more division. It will be them and us/us and them. OK this will probably get me in trouble and I may get a warning or worse but I am passionate about my work and shoot with emotion and I am a passionate person, and I will make a public stand even at my own expense, it is a risk I am willing to take. As Michelle quite rightly said there are far more important things to get Pd off about. Finally the voice of reason cheer I love this site and I will abide by any rules that are laid down, and have done so since day one, RR in my mind is without doubt the best of its kind on the web at this time. There is a historical opportunity to put this baby to sleep once and for all Its in your hands. I guess the bottom line is if you want to be creative with software manipulation within the rules great do it, if you just want to use untouched original images then that is great also, as individuals we all have that choice,. Some people say you have to change to stay the same I guess we tried so hard to stay the same we changed! I HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO SAY!

Ooh...You Bad Boy Lost Patrol...I am staying the same...and I will go steady with You if You stay the same...We can Rebel together....mwwwwah! sigh xxxx

What Michelle said. Dito.

What is Photography Online ? Not agree with Michele. As soon as we use the web there is automatically a photography manipulation. You cannot smell the acid of your dark room, and warranty the copyright of a digital shot. So for me...the more you are creative...the best you are... And please use all postwork you need...the creation is in the beholder's eyes and the comments in the member's appreciation. Hope I'm understood.

Quote Sylvaine. Quote: and please use all postwork you need. Fine, if one puts it the 'right' genre. Quote Michelle A: Quote: 3D elements..... Explanation.... we have numerous 3d galleries on Renderosity.... 3D mixed with photography is Mixed Media there's a gallery for it.... If I want to see 3D I have plenty of places to look, I have no desire to see it in the photo gallery. If the photo gallery were to become a free-for-all, upload whatever the hell you want gallery, then why bother to have a Photography Gallery.....? I come here to see photographs, and photographic art. I generally don't spend any time in 2D or Mixed Medium, Fractal, etc, I'm sure I'm missing some great stuff, but it's not what I'm interested in.... and it is not what I'm here for.... bravo Michelle :) Lets move the Photography Gallery to a NEW site..I'll be will ing to pay a yrly sub whatever if need be.

I'll try to get up a few pence too From the first time something went wrong in a darkroom and looked pretty cool people have been looking for mistakes that would work great and started to call them tricks. Nowadays we call it postwork. Most shots I post are straight from the cam but I just LOVE postwork from time to time. The whole issue is on ALL galleries. Poser galleries with poser figures rendered in Bryce, cinema4D etc Vue d'Esprit postworked photoshop. Basicly this entire site is mixed medium and the whole idea behind it got caught up by artist mastering several media and combining them. All galleries should be reconsidered when it comes to that. But as far as the photo part.... No 3D elements, stockphoto's will do. One can't put the 2D elements with those because it is used for framing, lensflares and touches with brushes. Collages should be in the 2D gallery, which I hate to mention because we have some superrrrrr talents on that part but fair is fair if you need more shots to create one picture your are definately working on a 2D plane creating an image. Well I hope the 2 pence didn't become a dime LOL

Sylvaine.... where in my long-winded reply to this thread did I say that postwork shouldn't be done or shouldn't be put in the photo gallery? It's ok to disagree with me.... I don't have a problem with that. :~) But I don't want people to get the idea from reading your post that I said something I didn't. If your images includes 3D or photographic elements that was not photographed by you than IMHO it does not belong in the Photography gallery. That is what said.

Quote jimry Lets move the Photography Gallery to a NEW site..I'll be will ing to pay a yrly sub whatever if need be. Now thats a great idea!!! If you need help....... you know my artists site looks great, I know a perfect host so why wait with the party?? I will gladly sponsor/partner link to it.......

To Michele...may be because I'm not fluently speaking your language and surely because I'm not yet skill enought with answering each posting...I have badly understood...So accept my apologize. I maintain that actually its simply impossible not to postwork "manipulation" with both digital or non digital image. Photoshop is the best for help actual photographey professional or not. And what I love actually- and spend often lot and lot of hours- is the creation, the plus that still can bring the "glince" of a personnality. That many in this section "Photography" Have. Have been myself working more than 35 years only as photographer, reporter and studio at the end. So I consider I'm able to talk about photography. I had Bryce 5 I just offer to a member of RD...because was not my trip. Hope I answer, and that i'm not misunderstood.I'm also not for creating a new section for photography.Love and Regards. (PS : I use only PSP 7 in my postwork with some plugin.)

i must've lost an ebot somewhere!! didn't realize the conversation was still going on...

i stand behind the guidelines at the top of the Photo Gallery & the vision Michelle had for this place

use your own judgement people!!!!!!

right now i got a collage pending to move, waiting for the member's reply, because it's made up of all well known photos, not a single one done by the artist as far as i can tell... it's clearly a 2D work, someone got a problem with that?

we're not moving the site & as nice as a seperate genre would be, good luck getting the admin. to custom tailor it

as for my own & other's "cut & paste photo collages", they stay as well as manips, tell me i have double standards,
but i got to draw a line somewhere & try to keep this a happy place :D

if someone gets pissed off at me because i moved their work to 2D or MM then i will simply apologize, point them to the banner header & this thread & let them figure it out...

i appreciate every one of your opinions

the majority has spoken!

:D

sigh....how Brave....sigh she is My Girlfriend....and I am right behind Her....sigh....and Michelle set the Best Standard possible...vote :D xxx

blush ...sigh thank you Tedz,
still think you're the man for the job
as i stand... beside you

sidenote: @TallPockets... it's no secret,
but there's discussion going on about doing away with the top 20

if anyone has anything else to add, feel free to do so,
pounds the gavel :]

What thread! I haven't read it completely but Man Ray is the first photographer which I've thought because, as you know, some of his "photos" were created in de darkroom without camera. A photo is a photo and if it isn't a photo is an image. The world is becoming excessively quadrilled: "or black or white", "or with us or against us" hey! And the infinite tones of grey? All of us are different grays in this gallery, this is the most important, the diversity, not the uniformity.
Anyway the word "pure" is dangerous and extremely boring. For example: Two persons with the same camera in front the same subject can result the same "pure" photo with pure non-existence of personal creativity. When we take a photo the most important are the decisions, with more decisions more personalization, more creativity.
We decide the lenses, the diaphragm, the speed, our position, the angle of the camera, the ISO, the filter, the compo, the developer for films, the developers for paper, the paper, the exposition with the enlarger, the mask, the toner. Digital photos are just the same and the postwork is just another decision on the photo.

quote cynlee: as for my own & other's "cut & paste photo collages", they stay as well as manips, tell me i have double standards, but i got to draw a line somewhere & try to keep this a happy place :D Or did someone tell you to draw a line??? ..... and YES perfect example of double standart..... as earlier stated with a BIGBIG sorry for great artists like you.... as soon as one is composing on a 2D plane it is 2D art.... ALL collages are 2D art...or ALL collages with self made shots are photography.... not that it personally bothers me. why there must be a line?? to show a passport??? Is there a line between red and blue in purple??? or between white and black in gray??? Or must the line be there to practice our brain??? I'll just post and see when it's moved...... the movers need a job too ;0)

Well done Enax...and thanks for the million of colors in the B&W and to speak about Man Ray. Love

dear skoeter,
i don't see any point in going backwards on not allowing photo collages

the line being... i will not encourage the use of other apps such as poser, fractals, bryce, stock photography in the photo gallery...
to repeat what's been said, there's appropriate galleries set for those already

& again about making a new site... RR is a crosssection of all art & computer apps, i enjoy visiting some of the other galleries without having to go to a different site

Dito Cindy "& again about making a new site... RR is a crosssection of all art & computer apps, i enjoy visiting some of the other galleries without having to go to a different site" Have a nice Day...here we will have to adjust our clock...this night...and our cows hate...simply hate that...:-))))

As usual, I'm late to the party...I have cameras that takes photographs, both digital and film. I use PSP and PS to have "fun" with the images. I rarely "heavy manipulate" my images. If I do I stick it in 2D gallery, as the guidelines suggest. Sometimes I see an image in the Photo gallery and wonder why it's not in 2D, but I don't care really where it is. I did a photo collage of a Train. It belongs in the photo gallery. I used 2 filters on an Autumn shot, both of which I could have done in the darkroom. If I sit here and "draw" on the photo, I am using more than one tool, so it should go in 2D gallery. Those are my guidelines, which match the Photo Gallery guidelines. So if any of my images are deemed to heavily manipulated, then I don't have a problem having it moved. Seems to me there are too many cry babies who need to grow up a little bit. Enough said... []/;^)

Sorry I've been away and thanks Cyn for sending me the link. :) A very controversial subject and one that has many different opinions. Mine being that ever since I started taking photography more to a professional level my opinion has changed. I love seeing work that a photographer has put effort into such as composition, lighting, subject etc etc. I like seeing someone make the camera (digital or film) work for them and not let the camera do all the work. I feel that adjustments such as levels, saturation and cropping are a given and just part of the digital darkroom technique but past that it seems to take away from what true photography is. These days anyone can make a bad picture pretty but strip all that manipulation away and try and see what the real truth is in technique. There are many talented photographers here that I respect and nothing better than someone really putting effort in to improve their abilities. Sometimes I feel this gallery has almost become like the poser gallery...it's gotten away from the appreciation of photography to the point of how many comments one can get or the "Vote" message that seems to imply I'm voting, now please vote on mine kind of thing. I've seen really great photographs go with very little comments and something mediocre go with 50 and 60 comments...puts a bad taste in my mouth that this gallery is losing what I felt it was about in the first place...photography...but hey that's another discussion. lol. Not trying to tick anyone off, just stating the truth. Misha and Michelle I applaud your efforts in trying to keep this gallery pure and true to what it's suppose to be. I agree with your statement. Please keep it up because I use to once love posting here. Have a great day!!!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewLink=319

if you want to help change the direction, continue posting... all works, amateur, pro, artistic, creative are appreciated & please feel free to comment, as time allows, with helpful & polite critique, not about to tell people how to comment... thank you for your support & views :] "MISSION STATEMENT The mission of Renderosity is to create a thriving, productive environment that encourages an atmosphere of community, respect, collaboration, and growth for graphic artists of all backgrounds. COMMUNITY The Renderosity community is made up of members who have a passion for helping others learn, share and grow in digital art. The participation and interaction among members has slowly built a family and a place known as a "home"."

Nice definition of this community, Cyn...Obviously when time is enough one can make decent comments, but when you're running out of time you reduce your comments and say only few words... M. Moraitis has a point about that "too many" comments but this is another discussion! Mihai A kingdom for your thoughts...

Thanks Cindy...Mikan I prefer no vote and good and helpful comments ...May be poster must encourage members to join this forum...or you Cindy in making a html link in your as "so warmful" coordinator...(yet I dont have succeed...LOL)

"too many comments"... what's next? think all has been pretty much said here, sorry but this thread is closed :( seems my [LOCK] thread doesn't work, must be a mod thing

Well once again I'm not understood...I was speaking of pictures posted in all Renderosity...not in this forum...I cannot follow anymore...Feel very sorry about it...my english is too bad for all this debat that have not been able to follow since the beginning... :-) Thank you Cindy...Hugs to All.

Quote... :( seems my [LOCK] thread doesn't work, must be a mod thing Elvis has left the building ;0)