I have had a minor but annoying problem with Paypal. They keep sending me e-mails and I have tried to unsubscribe but for some reason it never works. I have several years of back and forth attempted correspondence with their automatic system sitting in my files. Moreover I cannot find a phone number to make contact with actual human beings. I imagine that some others have not had this problem, but anyway damnit I have. The real issue RIGHT NOW is that I finally got disgusted and used google to find out if there were consumer groups who might have a solution. I was shocked to find out that thousands of people have had problems much more serious than mine, costing them lots of money, and there are class actions and demands for government action etc. Moreover, again, there is no real appeal because who even knows who these people are? They make it difficult or apparently impossible to find them in real space. This is creeeeeepy. Obviously millions of people have had no problems. I had a couple of friends myself who had used it for years and were satisfied. But plenty of people seem to have been burned and in many ways and are extremely angry. Try google if you want to see what I mean. Something like Paypal complaints consumer groups should work. There are too many types of serious problems from irrate citizens to try to summarize here. But the common thread that I detect is that they are basically unaccountable because they seem to be anonymous. This is very dangerous. If you have a serious problem with them apparently there is not much you can do about it as you would be able to with a normal up-front business. My problem in trying to get off their list fits in with this. I suggest that so far as our community goes, we ask vendors not to use on-line payment systems that are basically anonymous. And I DO have a question. Does anyone know a way to get ahold of Paypal by phone so that I can actually talk with a human being and try once again to get my name and e-mail address and any other information out of their system?

Be careful - I get many emails 'from paypal' but they're not - they're fraudulent and don't click on any of the links in the message. I get very few emails from the real PayPal and they're usually an important notice, other than reciepts or notifications of payments. It may be difficult to discern real or not without the software I use for checking my mail but if you dl the message into OE - view the header of the message. That will show the origin.

Their phone number is right under the contact us info :) Customer Service Center PayPal Customer Service Agents are available to help you during the following times: 4:00 AM PST to 10:00 PM PST Monday through Friday 6:00 AM PST to 8:00 PM PST on Saturday 8:00 AM PST to 6:00 PM PST on Sunday Call us at: 402-935-2050 - Noel

in 12 months, the only paypal emails I've had sent to me from paypal other than "kaching" mails (i've paid or been paid) were two. One to confirm my account email, and one from support after I emailed them. I've never, ever been solicited via email from paypal, and never been hit by junkmail from them. On the other hand, I have recieved about, oh, 60 direct to junkmail pieces a month from folks who just happen to be interested in getting access to my paypal account. And I hate Paypal. IF folks would use something else, I'd go for it in a heartbeat!

like gillbrooks said, you're probably getting "phishing" emails, or fraud emails that say they're from paypal, but not. I've never had any problems with paypal, and I've been using them for years. Granted, I don't use paypal to buy cars, like I've seen done, but, I still use it, rather than have my credit card info or bank account info in a store's records online. I've read a lot of the complaints, and deal with them, as well (I work in the Loss Prevention department for a FI here in Canada), and, well, 9 out of ten people who are complaining about the service brought about their own displeasure. There are warnings in the news, and even on the paypal website, regarding fraudsters who send emails pretending to be paypal, or any other financial institution, to get your financial info. They put the info out there, and most people don't even pay attention, yet they want PayPal to take the heat. I'm willing to bet that, if Paypal could stop fraud, they would. It costs them millions of dollars per year. However, there is almost no stopping crime in an unpoliceable area (the internet). What I would suggest is to get smart about financial safety, don't open unsolicited email (or email from people you don't know), and don't use paypal or your credit/debit card on sites that aren't secure. Above all, common sense dictates here....It's like the old McD's lawsuit...yeah, the coffee's, hot, so don't pour it on your crotch ;) I know it sounded crass, but, seriously, as someone who deals with this stuff for a living, I tend to roll my eyes when someone says "I've been frauded by paypal!!"....when, an ebay merchant didn't deliver, or an online merchant's system was down, and they couldn't get their money back. View paypal as, well, basically a low-limit credit card. If you don't pay attention to where your money's going, you're going to miss where it went. Their contact info is easily available (and posted above by Noel), and they're not impossible to get ahole of (remember, they ARE an international company, so you WILL be on hold for a little while). That said, good luck, and I hope that it really is PayPal that is sending you the emails. ..shadow..

if you haven't, check out the sight www.paypalsucks.com ...some big time eye opening info there...I know some online friends who had their account "frozen" for like 120 days, with no recourse, and no access to the money the had in there because somehow they supposedly violated the PayPal TOS...but, the kicker is, PayPal would NOT tell them what they had supposedly done... another word of warning...if you deal with ANY type of "adult" material/item, even something with mild nudity, if they find out you are paying for/accepting payment through their service, that is apparently one reason they will freeze your account for a TOS violation...read their TOS before you use them, seriously...

I've got some mails CLAIMING to be from Paypal. In reality they're not - the links usually go to russian or hungarian sites (.ru or .hu) and are only sent to make some stupid bugger reveal his or her info. REAL Paypal e-mail ALWAYS adresses you with "Dear [Your real name you used when signing up] and not "Dear PayPal user or Dear Valued Customer or the like. I've used paupal for years and has NEVER had any problems. Well apart from the fact that it always seems to go wrong when I try to add my credit dard, that 4-digit code never shows up, so I just use them unverified and make a new account whenever my limit is reached. I like paypal. but yeah. Read their TOS. And HOW do Rosity convince thm that they're NOT selling "adult material" with all the bondage stuff here, while PhilC got his account frozen for a nude low rez model :o/

I've used PayPal for a year or so, mostly for accepting payment (I'm new on the 3D scene, but I used to do custom plush toys) though I've paid with it a few times too. I have a verified account and a debit card, and have never had any problems. The only emails I receive are notices of transactions, and the occaisional site update thing. My email server has very high spam blocking security though ;) EDIT: Forgot to mention, PayPal isn't an annonymous company, they're a divison of eBay.

Message edited on: 11/13/2004 15:15

I've used pay pal for a few years with no problems, I have however gotten e mail that says it's from paypal ad it's not!. I never click on a link in any mail that says paypal, real or not. If it says something has been changed etc, I open my web browser and go to paypal that way, and if there is something updated its right there. Then I know it's for real. I have also reported many fake paypal e mails to them to let them know who is doing this.

Thanks for the interesting comments. I had already gone ahead and deleted the messages so I can't check to see if they were authentic or not. But the telephone number should help. I'll try that.

Paypal is truly horrific. RC who doesn't even want to think about the horror stories of her fatherinlaw.

I understand that because of different banking and data-protection laws, the Paypal operation in Europe has to run a bit differently to that in the USA and elsewhere. They even have an email address somewhere on their web-site.

We as vendors use PayPal, we also use checks and money orders, but to get back to PayPal, we have never had any problems with them. But I also do know some horror stories about them. But again, we have never, never had any problems. Sharen

Dear Vendors, The true horror stories are only things I read on the web, and lots of them. My own problems seem minor compared! But let me elaborate a bit, as best as I can remember FOR THE VENDORS'sake who ONLY use Paypal, if there still are any who only use Paypal (and it looks like ONLY using Paypal may be a thing of the past, but I have not made it a project to check and update.) Some years ago I tried to sign up with Paypal because of a 3D vendor who only would accept Paypal or personal checks. Somehow or other I botched the application. I was quite new to all this stuff. My application got rejected even though I have excellent credit in real life, because it was incomplete. Then I could not get Paypal through their automated system to correct the problem and let me finish the application and I could not seem to find a way to talk with them directly on the phone. For whatever reason. I do not remember if a phone number was available then. Their automated system would not let me simply put in a new application. So I had to mail vendors who only used Paypal checks, which was a real pain. Meanwhile Paypal kept sending me statements about this and that and reports about my account status. But I did not have a working account!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So all this was and is junk mail so far as I was concerned. I gave up and tried to get Paypal to just take me out of their system entirely to try to put an end to the junk mail. But nothing I tried, e-mails, "click this link to unsubscribe"-types of options, seemed to work. As I recall part of the problem is that their computer thinks I have an account, but I don't have a password to get in and change anything because they denied me an account!! Of course, after awhile I did not want an account or anything else to do with them, except get out. Finally a few days ago after yet more "junk mail" I turned to google to see if others had had any similar problems and had found ways to escape from Paypal. Instead I ran into website after website that had been set up by groups of people who felt that they had been very seriously burned by Paypal and were trying to take action. It makes me nervous to think that they have any data on me in their system at all. Again, my personal problem so far at least has been comparatively small. But from what I have seen and experienced I feel very sorry for artists who want to do business with a vendor and get involved with Paypal. I have not noticed if there are still vendor's who ONLY use Paypal, but IF there are I urge them strongly to give their customer's more payment options like Visa and Mastercard. It seems that some like BBay have now created more options, Visa etc. So maybe being trapped with Paypal if you want to do business with a Vendor is a thing of the past for the computer arts community. I hope so. PERSONALLY, If I were a vendor I would not have anything at all to do with them. But of course that is easier said than done. I imagine that a lot of people use paypal simply because they use ebay and have not had problems with paypal, even if they also have "real" credit cards. I wonder, though, if it would really hurt business to drop Paypal. I guess for vendors it comes down to personal circumstances and feelings whether to drop them entirely. But anyway, you have my two cents.

I was shocked when I saw www.paypalsucks.com a while ago, and there is a lot of horror stories, but for every bad transaction, there's at least 500 good ones. They are a little risky, but they are incredibly convenient.

I add myself to the list of millions who've never had any problem with paypal... I guess it's just a case-by-case basis...

There are two very simple reasons why paypal is used by vendors, sometimes only. The first is cost. Merchant accounts -- which are needed to handle credit card transactions -- cost money to set up. While 100 to 150 (on the low end) isn't a great amount for some, it's only part of the costs of operating with such -- not something that a smaller site can easily do until they've established themselves. The second is acceptance. Despite the horror stories, paypal is the single most widely used and accepted form of payment on the internet. It exceeds even credit cards. And, since US Custoemrs don't need to even have a paypal account now to use the paypal system to make a credit card payment, they make it much easier for smaller merchants to get in there. I've read paypal sucks, and most of the time, the issues come from not paying attention to what they were doing and what they were dealing with. Paypal is not a bank, does not have government oversight, and has few effective competitiors. In fact, within the US, they have no effective competitor. As for how roisty keeps their ability to use it, well, it's either the whole membership thing (can't see bad stuff unless you are a member), the volume of money (paypal gives them a bye 'cause they make a lot of money), or no one's complained yet.