"Ah, freedom in America. Gotta love it. 8-)" If they would apply their BS rules only on american PayPal accounts I could care less, but the german TOS reads exactly the same, that is what bugs me.

When you've pissed off the Better Business Bureau, pornophiles and the neo-Nazis you must be doing something seriously messed up. rofl! Yep yep. Almost makes me think that they stole their playbook from the AOL billing department. (I have a friend who's had AOL trying to bill her for 3 years for a service they never activated... the monthly charges are STILL rolling in, even though she's never given them a payment, or used their service)

I hope she checks her credit rating periodically. I wouldn't put it past AOL to screw it up. I live in one of the (no doubt many) places in the US of A where you can walk into any hole in the wall and buy a 12 ga. shotgun or a high-powered rifle for yourself or your child about as easily as a six-pack of beer. Anyone selling you a "non health related" vibrator would be arrested. When was the last time you heard of anyone being killed by a dildo? OK, maybe the heavy-duty, AC powered, Sea Biscuit signature model might leave a bruise.

When was the last time you heard of anyone being killed by a dildo? OK, maybe the heavy-duty, AC powered, Sea Biscuit signature model might leave a bruise. Ummm... looks around to make sure no kids are about Do you know where I can order one of those Sea Biscuit models? For, um... educational purposes... of course...

A lot of you americans are missing the point that there is a world outside the US. And for a lot of us, PayPal is the ONLY option. Not everybody has a credit card. I don't and I use PayPal. From Denmark. Show me another option (short of a money order, those are frikkin EXPENSIVE) to make me pay instantly for stuff all over the world and I'll consider it. I get my payments from this site on my paypal and use them to buy stoff, here, on Daz, on Ebay. Never had any problems. The only minor annoyance is the limit they put on unverified accounts (and again, I can't be "verified" without a credit card) but that one can be circumvented pretty easilty by simply opening a new account when the old one is about to be "used up". I've done that for about 2 years now and never had any problems with them yet. Don't hope I will either, I LIKE Paypal. It may not be the cure for cancer, but it's damn CONVENIENT!

I live in one of the (no doubt many) places in the US of A where you can walk into any hole in the wall and buy a 12 ga. shotgun or a high-powered rifle for yourself or your child about as easily as a six-pack of beer. Anyone selling you a "non health related" vibrator would be arrested.
Over here in germany it's exactly the other way round LOL ... there is usually an erotic or porn shop or whatever in every city and no one has a problem with that. Erotic mgazines can be bought nearly at every newsstand or supermarket and although they are usually in the top row of the shelf they are not hidden behind other stuff but you can find then the front row. Buying a weapon is a completely different story. There is no way to buy a gun for someone who has no gun licence and I have no idea where to find a shop that sells guns over here - at least in my city you cannot buy weapons, we do not have that kind of shops. To get a gun licence you need a very good reason - just saying I like to buy a gun to have one will prolly earn you a kick in the butt or further investigation what you might have in mind when you have access to guns. It is seen as criminal - someone who wants to have a gun is suspect because over here no one except the Police, security people or foresters have the right to have a weapon. And I feel very comfortable with that.

Ernyoka, I understand your situation. I'm sure many people here are in a similar position as well. I really like the convenience of PP too--fortunately, I can use my debit card most places, even, I imagine overseas if they accept Visa, though I haven't tried. I've gotten too old and cranky I suppose to put up with this stuff, so I do what little I can to support things I believe in and protest the rising tide of theocracy, self-righteous moral-ism or whatever the hell is going on in my country. Fascinating, Puntomaus. Talk about different cultural priorities! Five US states (Alabama, Texas, Georgia, Massachusetts and Nebraska) in addition to various localities have such laws. The Georgia statute states that: "...any device designed or marketed as useful primarily for the stimulation of human genital organs is obscene material..." Apparently you can even be busted for having a dildo mold. I imagine they're probably watching the produce aisle pretty closely as well. The Texas statute is more detailed, listing artificial vaginas and dildos. Unfortunately Softriver, a little known provision of the Patriot Act banned the Sea Biscuit, along with the JackHammer 9000 Turbo and several varieties of ribbed contraceptive devices. I'm told that some people have created "improvised" vibratory devices (IVDs). Rumors about the Georgia woman found sitting atop her radio tuned to the Old Time Gospel Hour, with the bass and volume cranked up, and babbling about the second coming are probably an urban legend.

Rumors about the Georgia woman found sitting atop her radio tuned to the Old Time Gospel Hour, with the bass and volume cranked up, and babbling about the second coming are probably an urban legend.

Completely unfounded rumours.

It was actually Illinois and Nine Inch Nail's "Downard Spiral" CD.

On a more "on-topic" matter, though. I do understand the position of the overseas users. I, personally, sacrifice a lot for my beliefs (I don't spend money at franchises or Wal-Mart, for instance, which is very hard to do as an American), but I don't expect others to do the same.

But I would ask you all this question:

What services/features would a company have to offer for you to use them instead of PayPal, and would you be willing to switch if someone told you about a viable alternative?

The reason I ask is because merchants can try to seek out viable alternatives for their sites for international customers, but if no one's going to use the alternative, no impetus to do so, then what's the point?

I fear for any site in this community that adopts PayPal. It will certainly lead to increased controls on content, and likely increased restrictions on what users can post and possibly say.

add in that until the purchasers make known their alternative services, AND then actively seek to use them as merchants adopt them, that it will also be for naught Renderosity will not add another service until there is a general consensus outside of them among the other smaller stores -- the indpenedent merchants -- that will force them to adopt such in a bid to stay competitive.

"It was actually Illinois and Nine Inch Nail's "Downard Spiral" CD." Smells like teen spirit to me :-) I imagine to be really successful any PP alternative is going to have to offer pretty much what PP does, the basics at least. No need for branded Visa cards & all that rigamarole but a variety of funding methods, service in at least the EU and major Asian and Latin American markets in addition to the N. America, fast reliable service and easy setup for merchants. With that and without PP's excewssive constraints, they'd be in a good position. The main problem seems to be going international since there seem to be some US only or US/UK PP type services. I've heard about eGold for a while but just now took a quick look at their site. It sounds interesting, different certainly, but I don't know how viable it is. No matter how good another service is, inertia is going to be a big problem. People are going to be reluctant to switch, there'll be hassle involved, they won't be sure if they can trust it etc. It's a chicken and egg thing and PP has a big lead. The tie-in with eBay makes them even more powerful. On the plus side, word spreads fast on the internet, good or bad. Still, I think you might need advertising, maybe merchant incentives etc. to get a good start. I have no idea how much this all costs or what kind of profits you can make or how many hoops you have to jump through with banks. I'm sure some Saudi prince could do it with pocket change. I'm going to look at eGold some more and some of the other services. For me it's relatively painless at the moment. The only PP payments I've gotten were for programming and the company will send you a check, albeit for a few dollar extra fee. I've already contacted some of the people I've used PP to buy from and discussed alternative payments. So far, everything I've purchased using PP was something that worst case, I could've (and in some cases probably should've) lived without anyway. For some folks, it's obviously not so easy.

Last weekend's Bloom County addressed the real problem beautifully. Things will not change unless we are willing to make "sacrifices," even the trivial ones Americans in particular no longer consider "reasonable." Is anybody using PayPal to buy food because it's the only way they can? M

Here's a thought; Make arrangements in the States with folks who don't use PayPal. We can purchase items as gifts for others, correct? Simply make arrangements with friends to reimburse them the cost of the item. You can send a snail mail, good old fashioned check, Rosity gets its money so it can't complain, the gift giver is reimbursed, and the real purchaser is happy. PayPal never enters into it. And very true, Mick. Simple point of tactics; We outnumber 'Them' by several hundred thousand to one. Businesses either make money or go out of business. If the users deprive them of their money (which they have absolutely no right to whatsover. People forget that you have to =earn= the cash, by providing services that please the majority of your customer base), they either change their ways or they go out of business...and a brighter competitor, who saw what happened, has the chance to make a killing. At our level it's simple; You no please the customer, you no get the customer's money. The only thing PayPal truly has going for it is instant gratification. There is nothing it does that a stamp and check can not do, and the latter keeps your credit info much more secure....

Good idea. The only rub is you have to figure out how much $29.95 USD is in Yen, Euros, Zlotys or whatever at the current rate--on the web, easy enough. Then you have to figure out what if any hassle there is, if any, with your bank taking a foreign check and actually putting the money in your account in less than forever. It may be slick and simple, I don't know, but that's the other advantage PP has, all of that is pretty much done for you. So you need to try it I guess to see if it's minor sacrifice or major headache, friendship straining.

There's a serious debate about a viable alternative to PayPal just starting over at Renderotica.

wow i had no idea paypal was doing this. just found this thread, good to know. incidentally the BBB is actually a scam; it's not official or a real "bureau" of anything. what they do is charge companies a large fee to join their club, and you can't get a recommendation or be listed through them as a legitimate business without paying the fee. so if the BBB has no info on a specific company all that means is the company hasn't hunted them down and paid the fee lol.

Yeah, the Legion of Decency wasn't really a legion either. If PP got their ticket yanked in spite of paying the BBB's bribe, excuse me membership fee, then they really must have been evildoers. The only supposedly unbiased news sources I found on the matter date back to 2001. AFAIK, they are back in good graces now, after a spanking and probably an increased bri--, er membership fee :-)