Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=833506

I want to improve till I can produce professional quality art i.e. art that people will be willing to pay for. I am aware that this may take me years. But one cannot improve unless one receives feedback on what s/he's doing wrong and how to improve on it.

I would like honest, constructive feedback.

I need to know what needs to be improved, and how to perform the improvements.

Unfortunately, I've seen several pictures in the galleries with significant, obvious defects, but nary a constructive criticism in sight. Just comments like "Awesome work!" or "Cool colors". But few tips for improvement.

I think we all need tips for improvement. How shall we get better otherwise?

On the other hand, I don't think anyone wants non-constructive criticism, e.g. "Your stuff sucks" or even worse, personal insults, e.g. "You're the most pathetic artist I've seen".

I leave constructive criticism whenever I can. Before I do so, I ask myself, "Is this one of the BEST piece of art (Poser or non-Poser) that I've seen in my LIFE? If not, what could be done to make it one of the best?"

My first Gallery image is at the link below. I know it could do with improvement, but what? And how? Be honest! And constructive!

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=833506

Thanks.

I agree with your sentiment. I would like to improve, and while I appreciate the "Great Work!" pats on the back, some appropriately phrased critique would be very appreciated on my part. I really do want to learn how to be better, and I know there are experts here that could help. Maybe we need to post "I ain't ascairt of no criticism!" on our notes?! :-)

I think you'll find many people have been burned already. I know people who have left viable constructive comments and have been attacked because of it, not always by the artist but by their friends and followers. For that reason many do not bother. Personally, if I see an image that I spot what I think maybe a flaw or error, I will IM the artist privately rather than posting a public comment and start with "I hope you won't be offended, but....." Most appreicate it and thank me - but I have had some nasty retorts ... the usual - if you haven't got anything good to say about my work then shut up. Not all, but many who post their work here are only looking for a pat on teh back, not helpful comments :-(

I sort of assumed that was the case here - I haven't been posting long, but it seems that people here like to comment on their friends work without much regard for its actual worth as a piece, but more for the sake of support. Which is very valid in its own way, of course. Most people would like a place to come and share their work and be validated by friends. But for someone who wants to get hones st feedback in order to grow, it's hard. I will just keep asking for constructive criticism in my posts, and accept it with a little "Ouch!" when it hits too close to the mark. I would rather be criticized by great artists than praised by not-so-great ones, any day. :-)

I looked at your pic and my only criticism is that the two elements, the character and the background, don't belong together, they aren't consistent. No one would ever accuse Charles Schultz of being a great technical artist, yet he was enourmously successful because his work spoke to people, and it was consistent. He was, in fact, a great artist. The simple character drawings were matched by the simple backgrounds.

The main reason they don't offer constructive criticism is that they know it will usually be taken the wrong way, especially by more sensitive people. So they try to say something positive or encouraging instead. The other reason they don't do it is that it tales a real expert with a real investment in time and energy to tell people how to improve their work, and there's no return on the investment.

If you want constructive crits -real ones- then you're better off not posting on some other art site. All you'll get here are "oohs and ahhhs" or perhaps the obligatory "Stunning" once in a while.

there are some sites out there which will tear you a new one for using Poser (or Bryce), the 'pro's' wouldn't deign to use anything less than 3ds Max or Maya (nice programs, it's just not easy for everyone to come up with sufficient scratch for them)..;)
Yeah..you do develop 'amen corners'..I've gotten outstanding reviews on some stuff that's..well..not really outstanding..;) I usually mix a little constructive criticism with encouragement, so far I've only been nailed a few times..;)

If you really want constructive crticism here. The best way I have found to get it, is to ask for it in the text of your description but be very clear about what you want. Tony

True artists take criticism with a grain of salt; it's an opportunity to learn from our mistakes and to improve our craft that applies for all aspects in life. If I see an image that I like I give them a good comment, but if I see something wrong with it, I tell them. But I also have noticed some folks give the usual "good job", "great image" even if the image sucks donkey butter, as a community we all have to stop doing this, if somebody does something wrong in an image, or the Poses look stiff, or the expression looks bland, we should tell the artist, so he/she is aware of her mistake, and is able to fix this and improve his/her style.

We have to stop being afraid of hurting people's feelings and truly criticize in a tactful informative manner.

"sucks donkey butter"? Hahaha. Love it. I'm going to slip that into conversation at work tomorrow and see what sort of reaction I get. No point reinventing the wheel .. maybe Rosity should consider splitting off a WIP or Criticism Wanted gallery like a number of other sites?

Destructive is how most here see any sort of critical feedback, constructive or otherwise, especially those that glory the hot twenty quite regularly. You have to be afraid to say anything much less than wow here because anything much less than a wow here in most cases can land you a troll medal and even mauling by the masses of followers of that person you have just insulted by trying to actually help them improve. As I have been told more than once, when I gave my honest opinion, most here are just hobbyists and are not interested in negative feedback of any kind and my opinion is irrelevant because the artist(s) are not interested in anything but enjoying their hobby. Negative feedback, no matter how constructive, is not necessary for hobby enthusiasts that just wish to enjoy posting here for those that like their work, the rest can just keep their opinions to themselves. I have no gallery myself so anything critical I may have to say is instantly dismissed even moreso, and really gets em going, even though for all they know, I could be an art enthusiast or art director, and maybe I am.

I've never been attacked for constructive critisism. though with any point I'm making I include:

I would have done
[insert description of different method / lighting / focus]
though that might not portray what you are trying to in the way you want.

which seems to help people realise you aren't being negative.
as it doesn't invalidate thier efforts.

There seems to be an somewhat of an assumption that everyone who visits the galleries is or considers themselves to be an artist, capable of rendering the desired technical criticism, much less recommending the necessary changes. I think a lot of people simply enjoy looking at the images and complimenting the ones they personally like. Even a lot of people who use Poser may not feel that they are qualified to comment in that way. For the people who do have the chops and who aren't thin-skinned about taking criticism, perhaps there's a need to form some kind of informal group that can further this process.

Pesonally, I look for the artist to mention that they welcome criticism before giving any. Of course, by that same token, I refuse to give any rating or comments on those that do not. After all, if they don't want criticism, they must not want kudos either right? ;) I am a hobbyist myself, but when I do get around to putting an image up (only have 2 left up right now) I ask for honest input.. not only to improve my abilities, but to get others viewing my pieces to think for themselves 'how would I have done this better if it were my work?' Frankly, if you don't want criticism, don't allow it. That's why the check is there for "allow comments."

I think different people have different ideas about how they want their galleries to be viewed, and I'm okay with that. Some want praise and encouragement, while others are solely interested in artistic critique. If I were to want honest feedback, I think I would make a mention of it in my comments on the image. Something like . . . "I would really appreciate comments on how I can improve this image so I can grow as an artist. If you see anything you would have done differently, please let me know." I sometimes get critique from people that is very useful. Other times I realize they don't know what they are talking about, but I'm at the point in my life (and my artistic development) where I can shrug things like that off easily. However, I have to shamefully admit that I love the kind comments that people send along. Like many of us here, I liken a lot of comments to success. The personal attacks will happen too if you post controversial images. Mine are all down now (Thank you, Paypal), but I had some up there with comments like "This is disturbed" and my favorite "Rendered with hatred and viewed with disgust." -sigh- Best of luck with your gallery. I'm gonna head over there now and leave you a comment - if I see anything that hasn't been pointed out already. Best Blessings, --Invidia

"There seems to be an somewhat of an assumption that everyone who visits the galleries is or considers themselves to be an artist" I'm a poser hobbyist myself, and I welcome criticism if it's constructive, and even if it is for hobby purposes most folks still want to get better at it. If you are willing to show folks what you do, you have to ready to take whatever they say, good or bad, if it is good take it, use it, and drive on. If it it's bad, brush it off, and drive on. If people can not take constructive criticism then maybe they shouldn't post their images for the world to see. Criticism must be done in a tactful constructive manner.

Anyone is welcome to comment on my images; praise, suggestions, critique, what have you. I wouldn't have comments enabled otherwise. I have not yet felt the need to have a hissy fit over a suggestion that someone has made on one of my pics. If I comment on an image that I feel needs improvement, I'll say so. Otherwise, I'll generally say something nice. The truth is, IMO, there are a lot of damn good artists here and if I see a pic I like, I will say so. Seems pretty straightforward to me. :)

I would like honest, constructive feedback. I need to know what needs to be improved, and how to perform the improvements. Put that in the comments on any/all images you make. You'll be far more likely to get constructive input if you make it very clear that you want it and you won't get all bent out of shape over constructive input. :-) bonni

The problem is there are people who say they want criticism so they can improve, then get bent out of shape if you take them at their word and offer it.

Back when I posted in the gallery a lot, I found that it helps if you respond to criticism publically, in your comments section. ("Thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't thought of that" or "I tried to do that, but it looked funny, because...") Sometimes I incorporate the suggestions and post an updated version. If people see that you actually do welcome criticism, they are more likely to give it to you.

looniper said: "Frankly, if you don't want criticism, don't allow it. That's why the check is there for "allow comments."

A good point, however; there are some artists who will say that they don't want to hear anything critical and still leave their comments on.

I am not a Poser artist (or a graphic artist in any way, shape or form) but I frequent the Poser gallery because I like a lot of the images and even when I go to an "all galleries" view, the bulk is Poser work.

I cannot offer technical crits for ppl, but I will still offer artistic ones and if a character is missing a ground shadow or something like that, I'll mention it because I think looking at the various galleries has helped improved my eye for this sort of thing :>

Even if an artist doesn't state they want/appreciate constructive crits, if they have comments open but disallow ranking - I tend to suspect that they are more open to honesty.

cara *edited to correct an-I-ought-to-be-asleep related typo

Message edited on: 12/15/2004 00:59

I try to leave comments open and disallow ranking. But I tend to forget about those little boxes. I often end up not allowing comments unintentionally, just because I forget the check the little box. (So I fully understand why so many people forget to set the nudity flag, LOL!)

LOL!!! cara