I have a serious problem with the reviews for products policy on Renderosity. While I agree that a merchant must be protected from malicious reviews, or reviews critisising a product because of the users incompetence or lack of knowledge, I have seen a trend that disturbs me. Lately I have been speaking to a few people who say they have bought products that are faulty, or don't work as advertised, and when I ask them why they don't post reviews, they say that their posts are deleted. I am not talking about a newbie that hasn't read the read me file and doesn't know how to apply a texture. I am talking about products that say something like "Wheels turn" and when you open the product only the front wheels turn, and not the back wheels. Or a product that claims to be a figure (which is a CR2) and is actually a PZ3. Or a product that claims to be a figure with moving parts, and turns out to be a prop with other parented props, and when you move the figure it comes apart, or parts stay behind. I am not naming names, and it is not my intention to start a flame war, but I believe that the review function is there to tell people about a product. If a product doesn't do what the creator claims, then you should be able to say that in a review, without having your post removed when the merchant requests it. Maybe the policy should change so that when someone has a legitimate problem with a product, the "bad" review should stay until the merchant fixes the problem, or rewrites the claims about what the product can do. If we as merchants want to improve, and to better the standard of products, some level of negative reviews should be allowed. If people are going to stop posting complaints about products because they think they will just be deleted, how are we going to know what is wrong with our products, how we can improve them, and how we can grow in our level of proffessionalism. I for one, would rather have an honest, well written review of my product that tells me what the user likes and doesn't like, and how it can be improved, than to keep making the same mistakes in model after model.

Hi Helgard, If a product in the MarketPlace doesnt function as advertised the customer should contact our store staff so we can look into the problem. store@renderosity.com As long as the Product Review stays within the guidelines it shouldnt get deleted. "Product Review Guidelines: Acceptable Reviews: Focus on the specific product Sharing likes and dislikes about the product and why Unacceptable Reviews: Personal attacks, profanity or obscenities. Technical support for the product. Please contact the merchant directly (by clicking on the merchant name at the top of this form) Product Reviews that are not specific to the product or violate the guidelines can be removed at anytime by the Renderosity staff." Clint

It's generally been my impression that any user daring to leave a negative review is likely to banned from Renderosity as well as other repercussions(at other sites even). I know that even posting this message I figure I'll be punished in someway or another. As a result I never review any products I can't give 100% recommendation to. It's not worth the risks. It also means I tend to discount the reviews on products greatly, since anything negative is almost always contested by the merchant and then removed. The big problem may be the second line of your "unacceptable reviews". Any problems with the product are seen as "technical support" and not valid for complaint. On the other hand some merchants here go above and beyond to fix problems. I reported a problem with Batlab's A3 conversion of the Schoolgirl outfit and he responded with a fix up in about an hour. This being something he added as a bonus to the product in the first place. Lately I've been considering posting full length reviews of Renderosity products at another Poser site just because it's the only way I might be able to do it without being banned from here. I'd have to do this using a fake name, which I hate. Some of these products aren't so hot and it would be nice if people could tell you about them before you spend money on them.

Clint, I know there are guidelines, but as the post by msorrels just demonstrates what I have been saying, sometimes the complaint is legitimate and meant as an honest review of the product, the merchant complains that it is an unfair review, and the post gets removed. The person who posts the review won't leave reviews in the future. This is happening, even with the guidelines in place. msorrels attitude to reviews has been expressed to me by about six individuals so far. I am not trying to start trouble, I am just saying that this should be carefully looked at, otherwise reviews are going to be ignored as all reviews end up saying this product is "brilliant", "buy it", and no negative reviews ever stay on the site. I have had problems with products, and contacted the merchant and they were fixed, but sometimes the wording is so vague that it is not seen as a problem. For instance, if the review says the product is a figure, the buyer assumes it is a CR2, but if the product is a PZ3, it is still a figure, it just can't be used as easily. If this is stated in a review as a negative comment on the product, the review is removed. This has happened, although I feel the complaint was legitimate. I am not going to mention names and merchants and cases, as I am trying to raise a general point about keeping reviews as a legitimate way for customers to evaluate a product, instead of turning into praise sessions for sometimes sub-standard products.

An example: I wanted to buy a product and there were two reviews saying the product had great textures. I wanted to know what the animation capabilities were, so I contacted both the people who had placed reviews and asked them. They told me that even though the parts could move as advertised, if you moved the main body of the product it came apart, and could therefore not be animated. I asked them why they didn't say that in their reviews. Their responses were: "I don't want to be banned from Renderosity." and "The review will just get deleted anyway." So what value does the product review system hold for me now?

I have similar concerns about reviewing products. The Product Review option in our account screens is a decent start. We immediately see a spot to enter our reviews, then wait for approval. But we should be able to at least easily delete the reviews ourselves. As for "backlash" over negative feedback, let's just say I'm trying to figure how to save enough money to buy Shade 7 so I can try creating my own clothing and scenes at least. In the meantime, any merchants who create problems for me won't get any more of my money.

I have had ONE product review deleted in my time on Renderosity, and I've never been threatened in the least. The reason the review was deleted was because my complaint in the review was no longer valid. I frequently leave reviews about products, and include the good with the bad. I have NEVER heard of anyone getting banned for posting a negative review on a product. I actually encourage people to leave reviews and contact merchants when they have problems. Some of my customers who bought Xie had a problem for over a month that I didn't know about, and they never said a word to me until one day a whole bunch realized the issue. (Daz3d had set the wrong morphs in the wrong folder in their International Beauties set) The problem is, yes, it's not clearly defined what is tech support and what is a genuine problem with the product. I can remember a time when the review system was a LOT different, and people just posted anything and everything, up to and including attacks on the merchants for no reason other than they didn't 'properly support with add ons' a figure. I think this is where a lot of the concern of banning is from. But if people just leave negative reviews, such as: 'This product's textures are very low quality despite the high resolution' or something along those lines, it should be fine. If you're not happy, folks, SAY something about it, please!

The first thing I do when a product don't work like the discription say is contact the merchant. Many merchants are willing to help you or improve the product. Only when a merchant isn't doing a thing about it then I leave the negative review on a product page. But until now I diddn't have to do that because a merchant improved it or helped me out. But always give them a change to do something

Renderosity never bans anyone for leaving a negative review. If they have been I need to know about it since this shouldnt happen and hasnt ever happend to the best of my knoweldge. Again - If you purchase a product at Renderosity and it doesnt function as advertised please either contact the merchant or the store staff so it can be investigated. If the merchant doesnt respond please contact the store staff right away so we can take action as needed. We will review the product and remove it from the MarketPlace if the advertising is false or misleading. This should be rare since the testing staff checks to make sure that its properly advertised and functions as advertised before the product is released into the MarketPlace. Thanks, Clint

Too often a criticism of the product turns into a personal attack on the merchant. That does no one any good, and that, I believe, is what results in banning. I have yet to have a problem with a product that the merchant or Renderosity hasn't resolved to my satisfaction. Maybe I was just lucky, but I know that if you want cooperation from someone, threats and insults are rarely the way to get it.

We use the forums to talk about the good and bad, relating to Poser and Poser-related products. You're going to read more about poser products in the forums than in the Product Reviews. That's because we can very easily post our messages, and more people will read them. This is where it gets complicated. It's not always safe to say anything remotely negative in the forums. It doesn't matter if you use constructive criticism. You're liable to get attacked, and either defend yourself or just walk away in pain.

" Renderosity never bans anyone for leaving a negative review."

then.. one must ask.. are there no negative reviews?

Message edited on: 01/10/2005 10:39

If they fall within the guidelines the review will be left. Clint

On a similar note, I have a couple of reviews on products, where the buyer has stated things they would like to see. On at least one of these, I've created an extra that takes care of that concern/wish. Now I'd like to ask the buyer to leave an updated or new review in light of their concern being addressed, but, having bought, and reviewed items myself, there doesnt appear to be any sort of edit function. And I'd hate to have to ask the buyer to get in touch with the store, so that the old review could be removed before the new one is added. preferably, I'd like for the customer to be able to add a second review in this case, so that potential buyers could see some-one had a concern/wish about the product, and that I did indeed listen to the feedback and address/correct that concern.

Hi Andi - Good suggestion. I'll add this to my list of potential enhancements. Hey nice to see you back on-line! Clint

meh, not properly back on line, having to cope with dial up, because the broadband company have messed up....another day or two, i hope, lol

What about older products? I purchased two products that had been added to the store back in 2002... and both of them had issues. One was a model which came a pz3 instead of a cr2 and referenced a missing Photoshop texture file. The other product was a pose set that changed the shape of the character (probably due to the fact that merchant didn't know about the morph dials). How come I was the first person to find these issues, even though I had purchased the product a year (or two) after it had been for sale? All of the other reviews were along the lines of "Great product!" or "Nice job". It would have been nice to see a review saying, "This is an excellent pose set, but be aware that it changes the shape of your figures." And should product issues be handled by the customer and merchant or should a review be posted to warn potential buyers? Are there some merchants who will take reviews personally and come after a customer, saying "Your review forced me to lose sales."? --John

Hi John, You should contact store@renderosity.com with the product name and problem that you located. We will have the merchant resolve the problem with the product. We have much tighter testing standards today than we did a few years back. We would rather resolve product problems and provide a problem free product for buyers. If the problem cant be resolved we will remove the product from the MarketPlace. Thanks, Clint

but I know that if you want cooperation from someone, threats and insults are rarely the way to get it

This is a lesson that some will never take to heart. They would rather yell than to make any sincere attempt to work things through.

I don't like to leave negative reviews. Potentially torpedoing someone's sales isn't a thing that appeals to me. On the other hand, it is not a good thing to watch others spend their hard-earned money on a lemon.

2-3 years ago, I had a problem with a software package that I bought here.....the difficulty stemmed from a total lack of support on the part of the merchant. A tech support question from me was completely ignored.

At the time, I could have made a bigger stink about the matter than I did. I chose not to -- beyond mentioning the problem a couple of times in the forums.

Based upon some comments that I saw elsewhere, I wasn't the only person to find the rather pricey software package to be less-than-useful.

It would have been nice to have been able to get a refund.

Ah, well. Live and learn.

However -- and this is very important to note -- out of the literally 100's of products that I've purchased here at Renderosity......finding only one item that proved unsatisfactory isn't exactly a major crisis.

Overall, I have to give Renderosity a 5-star rating. It's a superb "supply house" for all things Poser.

Also: RR is a fantastic source of technical help for just about every type of 3D software out there.

I've only had 1 problem and it was solved quickly between myself & the merchant. I prefer to address issues privately...and I won't leave a negative review unless a problem continues to go unresolved. As a matter of fact, I very rarely leave reviews and get severely annoyed if a merchant constantly I'M's me wanting me to leave a review...if I buy something it might be months up to year before I use any said item.

Right now I'm having a problem with an older item as well, from a well known merchant...however, I will not contact said merhcant because the item clearly states for P4 & I'm using it for P5...so I'll work around as best I can. Don't want to ask every merchant to re-do for Poser 5.

Message edited on: 01/10/2005 15:30

XENOPHONZ, Thanks for the kind comments in regards to the 5-star rating. The Renderosity MarketPlace has changed a lot in the last 2 years. We provide better customer support, have better documentation and procedures for the customers, better quality control for products entering the MarketPlace etc.. The store staff works very hard as a liason between the customer and brokered artists as needed. If a customer ever has a problem getting support from a brokered artist the store staff should be engaged so we can help facilitate a problem resolution. If a resolution cant be reached we will work with the customer to make sure they feel they have been treated fairly by issuing a refund or gift certificate. Again thanks for the kind comments. Regards, Clint

Hey Clint ? Remember that review I posted on another site about a RMP product and the merchant a) told us we did not have his permission to post the objective, non-inflammatory review and b) accused me of warezing and c) Threatened Silvermage with a BSA review ? This because we sent a courteous, and normal "Hi, i got your product, here's the review" e-mail - Silvermage had to send you a heads up because of it sometime in dec 2003, iirc. Please don't tell me -some- of the RMP merchants don't throw shitfits if you say something negative about their products, and that even constructive stuff is way too easy to interpret as an insult if you've decided your product is perfect anyway. ~S