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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 12 9:45 pm)
Subject: Poser 6: What's the betting?
Possbily, but I can deal with the whacky cameras, and the limited Undo feature. Even with creaky old legacy source code if it ain't broke, don't change it, just update it is the philospy of many code monkeysinside joke* that I know*, its still fairly stable. The areas in need of DRASTIC improvment are the render engine, and the animation engine. Frankly, Poser has the weakest renderer of any software out there. I mean, I know that I shouldn't be asking for a Maya/Lightwave class renderer in a $300 program, but I would like something beefier than a glorified etche-sketch. Not only that, but I shouldn't have to spend HOURS upon HOURS in Photoshop to fix, or spruce up my image. That creaky legacy code is a decent foundation, which I admit needs some serious touching up. But at its core, its stable and fairly reliable. I've been using Poser for going on 4 years, through Poser 4.0 to Poser 5.0, and I can say that in someways Poser 5 was a major step up, with its speed in the Poser 4 department, and the texturing, and cloth areas, but a bit of a disappointment with the FireFly renderer. So they added Ray Tracing, something thats been in every 3D program since about 1998. Not much of an addition frankly. It should have been put into Poser 4, and then in Poser 5, we should have had Stencil Lighting, Normal Mapping, and Volumetric Lighting. When a full list of features comes out, I'll make my judgement then, but I will still buy it and use it, simply because I'm a fan of it. Now if only my favorite sport would gets head out of its butt, and get a season for next year, I 'd be a happy man :)
For $79 I wouldn't expect it to do much more than just pose figures. I have other programs I render figures with.
www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG
Having been down this road before with Poser 5, a lot of us know how it's going to go. This will be software with a lot of promise, everyone gets their hopes up, some people bad mouth it without ever seeing it, the software is released less than perfect (because nothing is perfect), some people bad mouth it without ever trying it, and eventually the kinks work out (somewhat) and a bunch of talented people will put out tutorials that show it can do more than we thought, and some people will bad mouth it on general principles. Been there. Done that.
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=2123035&Reply=2123930#45
Here you go...
Seems to me for many people, Curious Labs can do nothing right, Poser 5 was rushed out to satisfy all the whiners, "We want it now". Curious Labs was only trying to appease many in this community, So many people here only have themselves to blame. Don't start bashing something that is not even released yet, myself i'm looking forward to the release.
I just wanna know has anybody bought it yet... lol Cause even though it's just a pre-order, I'm dying to order it. The image-based lighting, and Ambient Occlusion alone sound great to me... All Poser 5 really needed were better lighting and camera angles... and of course a faster renderer, but I guess we can't have it all. I bought shade just 'because' of the lighting, I don't do much modeling. But considering Shade gave me about the same quality as Poser with Raytracing, I've almost given up on it. Turned out, the lighting I like (HDRI) that I saw in the promos, takes FOREVER to render... and I do mean forever. And I just built a new system with an AMD 3500+ AND a Raptor 10,000rpm drive. Still takes about 7 hours to render a good HDRI image with V3 (size being 1000px x 1000px). My only worries with Poser 6 is that it'll take an hour or two to render with the new light settings (shorter than Shade, but still much longer for Poser). I guess we'll just have to see. I know I'm gonna be pissed if it does... that'll be terrible for animating.
Thanks PBM! And I agree, dirk ... sometimes it seems as far as CL and DAZ go, it's "damned if you do, damned if you don't." I was one of those who got P5 early. And it didn't work on my machine until Service Pack 4, when I really started using it. I am giving it another shot because I agree with geep ... dollar for dollar, it's the most enjoyment I have ever received from ANY software program. And that includes 3DS Max and LightWave I love those programs as well, but I am TOTALLY hooked on Poser! LOL.
Although I'm one of those who still can't stomach the disappointment (to put it mildly) caused by Poser 5 I'm inclined to agree with those who say "wait till 6 comes out before you pass judgement". I should add to this (moved by previous experience): "And wait for another six to eight months, till service release 3 comes out, before you buy it".... ;)
"That's another fine mess you got me in to!" -- Oliver Hardy
Whatever happened to all those "brilliant" Poser soothsayers who were absolutely convinced that Daz Studio was going to "kick the crap" out of Poser and take over the marketplace? Funny how you don't hear from those guys anymore. Truth, as it turns out, is much stranger than speculation. Long live Poser. -jjsemp
JJ, the thing that D|S lacks is a history with the consumer. Its hard to compete with a product that's been around for 10 years. Granted, I personally don't care for studio's interface, but I've heard others that like it. I think in general, D|S is dependent upon converting disenfranchised poser users rather than creating its own audience.
"Funny how you don't hear from those guys anymore." DAZ Studio isn't even at version 1.0 yet, and I've already had less problems with it when building complex scenes than I ever did with Poser. Don't worry, you'll hear from us eventually. ;) I plan on waiting until those who purchased Poser 6 share their findings as well, but either way, DAZ Studio is a very polished alternative. SnowS
my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/
I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.
I guess you DO still hear from those guys from time to time ;-)
Actually, I LIKE Daz Studio -- a lot. And I think it's going to turn out to be a really strong alternative to Poser. It's just that as a community we have to be wary of "extreme" opinions about one thing or another before people have had a chance to sample what's being offered.
And predictions, no matter how well-intentioned, aren't worth the pixels used to make them.
-jjsemp
Message edited on: 02/17/2005 13:11
It is, dollar for hour of fun, the cheapest hobby I have ever had.
Yep.
As for the rest of the niggling: I sleep well at night.
Exactly what xonocastle said. It was put out in a hurry because of financial considerations (read - 'we're broke')
'Whatever happened to all those "brilliant" Poser soothsayers who were absolutely convinced that Daz Studio was going to "kick the crap" out of Poser and take over the marketplace?
Funny how you don't hear from those guys anymore'
Well, maybe most of us are too busy working in studio and enjoying it. LOL.
No, seriously, I've seen exaggerated claims for every new software that comes out, studio included. But until apps are actually out of beta, or in P6's case, actually released, it's unwise to open your mouth and put your foot in it.
Dax studio is turning into a very nice app, thank you very much, and I find it a pleasure to work in. Most of the stability issues have been resolved and the more advanced functions are starting to appear. Since it's based on solid coding, it has immense potential, and the ability to implement up-to-date technology. But it still has a lot of things to be added. Still, it already has excellent reflection/refraction and displacement, a toon renderer, spot render and multiple undo, and it is free, ya know.
I admit to being skeptical of P6. Once bitten, twice shy. But I'm not going to pre-judge it. I'm just saving my money until I know that it works, is all. I'm uneasy hearing about new features. If it's stable and easy to work in, I'll be happy.
mac
Message edited on: 02/17/2005 16:17
Dax studio is turning into a very nice app, thank you very much
Where can I find a copy of DAX Studio? Never heard of it.
;-)
D|S will be worth a look into -- one of these days. D|S sounds like it is s-l-o-w-l-y coming along. Who knows where it might ultimately end up going? But until D|S gets past P4 equivalency, then I don't really see much purpose in adopting it. Yet.
In the meantime, I am looking forward to trying out the advanced features in Poser 6. And I don't expect Poser to stop advancing with P6, either.
What's wrong with the orthogonal cameras? Did you never notice? Load Vicky. Switch to Right View. Now try and zoom in on her ear. Zooming in on her FEET is easy; anything else is near impossible. I said at the beginning of this thread I may be prejudging P6, but from the screenshot I suspect not. The very fact that it has "Figure1/Main Camera" suggests they still haven't worked out that EITHER you should have Figure1 selected OR Main Camera, but not both unless you specifically request it. The main problem with Poser 5 is not the render engine, it's the hopeless scene management system. If you think these tools are OK, then either you haven't worked much with other 3D apps or have never attempted anything very complex in Poser. It is POSSIBLE to construct complex scenes in Poser, but doing it is a nightmare. Show me one other 3D app where it is impossible to see from the view window what is selected. Show me one other 3D app where you cannot select two items and move them together (without cludges like parenting one to another and then unparenting them again). And so on. Poser is set up the way it is because in early versions it was never intended as anything more than something with which to pose figures for export to other applications for rendering. Poser only really became positioned as a stand-alone application with version 5, but Poser 5 bolted a render engine onto a posing tool without creating a proper scene management system. I had hoped CL had realised this and were going to fix it in Poser 6, but I don't see any signs that they have. If there's a new "scene setup room" I'll be very happy, but if there were I think CL might have mentioned it. Those who have no interest beyond "load Vicky - load temple prop - load sword - render" will have plenty of fun playing with the new lighting features in Poser 6, I am sure. For anyone wanting to set up complex scenes, the solution will continue to be to use Poser for posing and to make the render in Bryce or Vue.
'But until D|S gets past P4 equivalency, then I don't really see much purpose in adopting it. Yet' Well, it depends what you mean by 'equivalency'. Studio is built around an entirely different system to poser 4. In most ways, it's way beyond P4, even in beta. But it doesn't yet have what some people would consider 'basic poser functions'. For example, currently you can't add an obj as a morph target. No doubt, that'll be added in time. I can't think of other examples offhand, but in general, I'd say that studio is far superior to P4. Basic things like multiple undo, multiple selection of materials and body parts, multiple material pasting, unlimited libraries, a material picker, unlimited merging of scenes (pz3s), clearing of textures for each new scene. OK. These are things that are taken for granted in most 3d apps, but they're sadly lacking in poser. I think DAZ are concentrating on building the base of a solid, expandable program. The real bells and whistles will come later. Oh, and we also get to throw in our own suggestions to the programmers, which is cool. 'DAX studio' - LOL. Dem denged typos! mac
What's wrong with the orthogonal cameras? Did you never notice?
Load Vicky. Switch to Right View. Now try and zoom in on her ear. Zooming in on her FEET is easy; anything else is near impossible.
Are you still using the scale dials or camera controls? Try the zoom tool (or view magnifier, or whatever they're calling it in P5), instead. Works beautifully.
*Basic things like multiple undo, multiple selection of materials and body parts, multiple material pasting, unlimited libraries, a material picker, unlimited merging of scenes (pz3s), clearing of textures for each new scene. OK. These are things that are taken for granted in most 3d apps, but they're sadly lacking in poser. I think DAZ are concentrating on building the base of a solid, expandable program. The real bells and whistles will come later.
Oh, and we also get to throw in our own suggestions to the programmers, which is cool.*
It all sounds good. I'm always up for trying something new. But I'm going to wait on D|S until it reaches "critical mass" (I.E. - past the beta stage).
I know that DAZ is working on it. They should be given the time to come up with something truly useful.
As for the camera issues in Poser......yes, it's always been a pain. And, yes -- such issues were what originally started me looking at alternative ways of rendering Poser scenes.
I've settled on Vue. And I'm glad that I did.
Phantast, as usual, brings up legitimate issues about the software package. I wouldn't mind seeing some action taken by CL in reaction to those points.
I'm expecting great things from P6. However, if the software comes out imperfect -- I won't lose any sleep over it. I'll just wait and see when and how the fixes come down.
It's been said many times before: we should wait until we know.
Also:
Sometimes, one gets what one is looking for.
;-)
carolly, I forgive you. You are in fact, half right. I didn't open it until SR 4 came out. I'll perfectly honest. I don't like P5 much. I use it because, as a merchant, I now make my products compatible with P4/P5/DS. The material room is the one feature of P5 that I really do like and I've spent a lot of time creating nodes for my stuff. I just find P5 very awkward to use, but it certainly has some excellent functions. Lucifer, I like daz studio, but I wouldn't even attempt to place it's material capabilities on a level with P5's. There's no question that P5 is streets ahead. Having said that, I'm confident that far more advanced features will come with later versions. It's only in beta and it's displacement is already on a par with P5's. mac
Once D/S is out of Beta & the plugins start to show up I'm sure we'll be DAZzled (heh sorry) by it's wonderous features :D I do actually find D/S harder to use than Poser5, maybe I've just been spoilt all these years with the simple interface that poser has, I really need to give it a proper chance to grow on me.
Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1
'I do actually find D/S harder to use than Poser5' It's only natural when you go from one software to another that it can get confusing. I think the major problem is that a lot of poser users try DS and expect it to be like poser. It is a poser-like app, but it has a very different approach to doing the same things. I didn't find it difficult because to me, DS is just the same as all the other apps I use - poser is the exception to the rule. LOL. And of course, a lot of the features we take for granted in poser don't exaist in DS yet. So if you try to edit joints for example, and find that there's no joint editor, you obviously think 'Hey, it's crap. It isn't even finished yet!' Which is true. It isn't finished yet. But by using the various versions as they come out, I now have a fairly good knowledge of how things work and what to expect. So, when new features are integrated, I can take them in my stride. Also, I kinda like discovering the new things in each version. 3d is supposed to be fun, right? mac
The very fact that [the screen shot] has "Figure1/Main Camera" So, we're up to Poser 6 and CL is still calling figures "Figure 1" and "Figure 2"? Why isn't the figure in the image called something more appropriate like "SnowQueen" or "P6Female". It's not that hard to change the name of a figure... if I can write a tutorial on how to edit a cr2 file to do it, then the programmers at CL can surely build it into the figures from the beginning. --John
VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions
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... that it STILL has the same limited undo, the same malfunctioning orthogonal cameras, and a host of other legacy annoyances? I may be prejudging it, but the information so far looks as though yet again CL have bolted on new features (primarily in the render department) to creaky legacy code. Someone from CL said last year that they would NOT be doing that; but then they said that Poser 5 would be all-new code. It's like taking a cottage and building another 15 floors on top of it.