Using the skin node in P5, I get results like the head on the left. But now in P6, I get skin like the head on the right. The skin seems to have metallic properties now. I have made no changes to the skin node properties, though. Both heads were rendered with Firefly, using the same lighting (shadows off), and material properties. The head on the bottom is rendered with shadows turned on. Strangely, with shadows turned on, the skin appears lighter and more diffuse, yet still metallic. Is anyone else having problems with the skin node in P6? Are there ways around it?

Screen shot of MAT setup? Maybe I can help. Nerd3D

Thanks for replying, Nerd. The settings for P5 are on the left, and the P6 settings are on the right. Those blinn nodes are not connected to anything right now. The only difference is the bump value; P6 seems to have adjusted that on its own. I can upload render settings, too, if needed. DM

lighting looks way different, but you prob. already checked that? ::::: Opera :::::

Yeeps, I think the value for the KA is different. This might be a bug I'd have to do some more tests, but it looks like the KA value on the skin node needs to be trippled. It may have something to do with the way the P6 handles "real" values and the thickness setting too. P.S. I'd use a diffuse node between the skin and the AltDiffuse root. I think that's why you are getting strange shadow behavior.

I've found the same thing with the characters I've had using the skin shader

Try setting all the skin parameters to 1.00 and campare it to the P5 version (I don't have p5 on this box.) They may have normalized the skin parameters for P6. Nerd3D

I used "Global 014" from the free RDNA Global Environment Lights. But i got the same results no matter which lighting set i used, even the P6 default lights. The same difference occurs if the P4 renderer is used. removing the skin node yields a normal-looking render. setting everything to 1.00 made her glow in the dark... but it seems that Ka is the main problem. Here, with one light above, Ka was set to 0.5 on her forearm, but it's still more ambient that it should be. Looks like a new combination of settings are needed. Nerd, i'd never tried putting the diffuse node between the skin and altdiffuse. that's something new to play with for later, thanks. I'm gonna keep meddling with it for now... DM

On second thought, that is about the right amount of ambience when compared to a P5 render. The wierd shadow is still a problem, though. I'll see what that diffuse node can do about that, and play with the other settings more. At least the ray tracing on the eyes and earrings seems to have improved in P6, and I've gotten refraction to work on the corneas for the first time in Poser. Those results were... interesting.

I don' have P6, but I wonder if there might not be some funky new settings on the lights ya missed?

Well I think that Poser 6 default distance units have changed, if I remember correctly from the reading that I have done, could this be the problem?

As far as I can tell, the lights are exactly the same as they are in P5. And they're all infinite lights, so I don't think that the distance units would matter (even though i just changed them with no effect). Also, rendering primitives under identical conditions in P5 and P6 showed no difference at all. This seems to be entirely in the skin node. Still tweakin'...

I'm still waiting on my P6 shipment so I can only comment from my experience in P5. If you apply the skin node to just the face, the default Ka setting (ambient light?) reduces the darkness of shadows on that surface. Consequently, if there is a dark shadow running along the face to the neck and body, the shadow is SIGNIFICANTLY darker on surfaces without the skin node. This sometimes resulted in eyes, lips and teeth being unnaturely dark (compared to the skin) if there was a shadow across them. I either adjusted the Ka on the skin node or apply the skin node to all of the surfaces (eyes, lips, and teeth.) It looks like CL just fixed the skin node so that the shadow darkness matches across all surfaces, both with and without the skin node attached. In other words, they fixed it in P6. Just try adding another light shining in the front of the face, or turn up the Ka if you want to match P5 settings.

I always add skin nodes to the other body parts as well. If this is a "fix" from CL, then I'm not sure I like it. Now, with the same settings, I've gone from this large clip from P5, to the little inset rendered in P6. The render quality was reduced for the P6 pic to give a quick example.

There is an enormous difference between the skin shading and the clothing shading now. Note that there's no ambience on the clothes, only blinn alt Specularity.

So, I dunno if i could call it a fix...

Message edited on: 03/29/2005 20:47

OK, try this setup. The neck is Plain ole' diffuse the head is setup with the settings depicted. Give that a whirl. Nerd3D

note from the peanut gallery.... this is like listening to Spock dump out the science behind the Warp Drive. right on node warriors! I for one am learning a lot. ::::: Opera :::::

I'm learning just as much here, Operaguy. :) Your settings are workable, Nerd. I'm at a better starting point now, thanks! the only thing now is that using the diffuse node takes away some of the skin node's "edge highlights", like that blue around her jawline, chin, and nose in the P5 picture above. But the horrible shadow is mostly gone. I'll play with it more tommorow, since i'mm starting to nod off here...

Wow, I didn't play with the skin node until yet. Seems I can learn a lot of new things here... Just continue with the discussion, I'm listening, and thanks for sharing nerd... @DapperMan: Great clothed girl render.

I've been experimenting with settings (because someone asked for a script to automate adding the extra node), and the problem appears to be with the lights rather than the settings in the Skin node.

The images that follow are three from the series that I did.

New Scene. Loaded Jessie. Setup Skin node for Head material. Default Lights.

Deleted all lights. Added an IBL light and turned on AO.

Kept fiddling with lights and other settings. This is about 50 variations later.

One IBL light, one specular only light, a backfill light, all have AO on.
Added Bump map, as Fast Scatter node (not sure if it's connected correctly).

I'll dig all the settings out if anybody wants to know.

Uh-Oh. That is major serious. I realize it is a lot to take shots of everything, but you obviously have worked out something important. Would you post anything additional it took to get that look, including any 'thinking' behind it. It would be appreciated, and explored, speaking for myself. Thanks nruddock ::::: Opera :::::

First image is default everything except I added the Skin node.
I couldn't tell from the earlier posts what lighting was used.
I haven't tried anything with Spotlights or Point lights (yet, maybe you could).

Second image, (according to the timestamps on the PZ3 I saved), I changed Light 1 to white, and Light 2 to IBL with AO, render settings unchanged from default.

Settings in following posts.

Light 1 position settings.

Light 1 Material Room settings.

Light 2 position settings.

Light 2 Material Room seetings. IBL image is "Lagoon Desaturated"

Message edited on: 04/09/2005 23:52

Material Room settings for Head material.

Render settings.

Final notes. I deleted all the original default lights and then created two new ones just in case there was a problem (it didn't make any difference). I also tried turing off shadows on various combinations of the default lights (no real difference). I tried setting all default lights to White (no real difference). Need sleep. Have fun.

I used regular infinte lights in my previous posts, and basically default FireFly render settings. Haven't tried point lights, but spotlights gave me the same results as previously shown. I haven't really worked with this since i last posted, so there's no new progress at my end... Two weeks late, I know, but thanks for the compliment Singular3D. Someday I'll toss an extra light on her so she doesn't look like an under-exposed photograph.

Thank you nruddock and all others. This will be my first exploration once I get P6 installed and stable. I won't be happered by a transition from P5 because I never got to skin_node level in 5! Dapper, I agree there is 'something' about the image, the foreshortening in the pose. Hope to see the final sometime. ::::: Opera :::::

Heck, Opera, here it is now since I rarely bother with the galleries. It was just something silly and fun that was done for my desktop. It's ike the idea of parking your motorcycle in your apartment/loft, as in Dark Angel. I thoroughly doubt any more will be done to it, since I just took elements from other projects and threw them all into one for fun. nruddock, I really like your final Jessie head, even if it wasn't what you were intending. That specularity is nearly what I was shooting for in P5 a while back.