Hi. I know I am not very active all the time here, but Ihave realy been trying. I bought Poser 6. Pre-ordered the new book coming out. Tried to find tutorials. Even offered money to many merchants here for some help. Phil C made me a N'Varra Wren once. That is why I started Poser. Since then, I have wanted to learn to do one myself, or to update her in some way, maybe even make her sellable. But I have been trying for a while now. Can't figure out modelling in Shade 7. Can't figure out bones in Poser. No idea how dynamic cloth works, no matter how many tutorials I try. So basically, just wanted to say goodbye to everyone. I will probably eBay my Poser 6 and VUE 5 Infinite. Apparently 3D is not for me. Thanks.

i know small parts of 'getting around' in several apps., i haven't spent enough time in just one, to learn as much as i should/can. i don't know how long you have been trying to learn how to do stuff in poser/shade, but maybe in the modelling aspect, if you could get your head around something simpler like wings3d you could see how the process developes. things like rhino and blender have so many buttons, it confuses me, too. i was noodling around a 30 day demo of modo[ a lightwave brreak away i suspect...; ^] and it seemed more familiar than shade, i own lightwave, as well as cinema4d, amorphium, carrara, ei universe, bryce, poser and several others. strata cx has a friendly interface, renders are quite nice. it does quite a bit, and people have modelled some amazing things with it's somewhat basic modelling toolset. bottom line: find something free and easy to learn, to get a feel for what does what...

hey War Don't give up, this modelling thing is a bit tricky to get started on, unless you are a genius :) If you want some help with the cloth room I'll give you a hand, it's not too tricky, just not very intuitive. Don't get me started on shade :) it's gotta be one of the least friendly programs let alone 3d programs I've used. I still kinda like it though, if only for the render engine :) Anyway I've no clue about bones n stuff, but I can help with the cloth room if you like. Let me know. John.

Already purchased the main three, VUE Infinite, Poser, and Shade. Been trying to learn Poser for over six months now, same with VUE. Just frustrated. Nobody to blame but myself really.

Hey, hang on there guy [or gal]. I don't know how long you've been trying but please don't give up on it. Reading your post I'd say you're trying to do too much too soon. I also have bought P6 and got Shade7 with it. Now Shade7 is installed and I took one look at it and decided it can wait, it looks quite complex at the moment. Stick to Poser and just create scenes for now, forget modelling, it's not something you can jump into without knowing a bit about what you're doing first. hell I'm been playing with Poser for 2 years now and I haven't gone near modelling yet, I may never bother with it, who knows. Take it one step at a time and please don't give up. If you want me to send you a tute on dynamic cloth send me an IM with your E-mail and I'll send it you. It was written by one of the best dynamic cloth creators in the poser world so you should have no problems with it. thefixer poser coordinator

For everyone ... Poser is a unique application in that it allows folks an easy way to get into 3D. By easy, I mean that you can create and render scenes very quickly, and also have an enormous amount of content that is ready-made for you. That is a GOOD thing. For those who want to go beyond, and begin to learn more about modeling and building scenes, and rendering, and the intricate details of lighting and creating textures, they find it's a whole new world. It is NOT something that you can learn overnight ... in fact, it can take as long as a year to learn all of the main features of a 3D program, and even longer to master it. Does that mean you should give up? NO! It is worth the study, and it is worth the trouble, and it is worth all of the work. Because in the end, you are learning how to create something that is truly your own! Don't get discouraged. I've been into 3D art since 1993, and I'm STILL learning things, because it's the newest and latest stuff that makes it fun! That is what makes it continually exciting. Head up, shoulders straight, and keep marching!!!

I don't expect to master it so soon. But when I have been trying for months on end to learn how to even make something like a shirt, bring it into Poser, and have it work, and still not even one clue where to start, it leaves me frustrated. So many ideas in my head, not enough skills.

Trying to start with clothes modeling is probably not the way to go. Learn to use Poser first. Then learn to model props. Or maybe dynamic clothes. Conforming clothing is probably among the most difficult things to make. You're trying to run a marathon before you've learned to walk.

Have you looked at PhilC's Clothing Creator plugin? Not sure if it works in P6; I've used it in P5. It simplifies making dynamic clothing. There are also instructions for making the dynamic clothes props into conforming figures, but making conforming clothes really is a pain.

heck, I've had Poser 4 for 2 years, and just used my first morph 2 weeks ago..;) I'm the slacker king!..;)

Dont give up!!!! Seriously! I'm one of those, that "play" with a program until i figure it out, manuals and even some tutorials leave me in the dust. The problem I find, is those that know the programs well, ROFL, (no offense here guys) use terms I cant understand such as: "Take the cloth into a scene and get it to frame 30". Frame 30? how do i do that? what is a frame? I dont animate..... do i need to? Then is start rippin my hair out. Each aspect has that same degree of "what the heck are they asking me to do? whats that button? Er.. what the heck is XYZ i need to do before I render?". Terminology can be the main problem. At least in my case, I'm sort of dense in knowing what to do, or whats being talked about. I require the ABC elementary school version of explinations (pictures and diagrams like "this thing here stupid") usually helps me ROFL. I just got poser 6, like a foreign language, but i'm taking my time mastering ONE thing at a time. Shade?? Came with it, loaded it, looks chinese to me, lol. Poser 4 took me nearly two years to get the hang of. I just learned with much help MUCH MUCH help, to use the cloth room. Here I post the truly easy man's guide to doing it, in plain language. Should be the same as 5 as for 6. Hopefully this helps more than you, i'm sure there's others like us who are program challenged! Dynamic Cloth the easy way: Open Poser Delete out poser guy Add your figure from figures menu (jessi, vicki, so on) Once figure loads, go to the top menu bar and go to figure-inverse kinetics, and uncheck anything checked. Then, click on your figures body in the scene, anywhere will do. Then go to the top bar, window-joint editor, and click zero pose. Once thats done, load your dynamic clothing into the scene. Once loaded, look at the very bottom of the poser screen, bottom center just above your windows taskbar, you'll see a hump with a squigly thing, click on it, the frames come up. Move slider to 30 Once thats done, select your figure again, and pose her the way you want her/him. Pose, angle, zoom, all that. Finished with the posing (dont worry about the clothing leave it be) go to cloth room. In cloth room, do the same thing, open frames and slide it to thirty. Okay, now click new simulation, and then click "clothify". In clothify, select your dymamic clothing figure. Next, after that box closes, choose "collide against", chose your main figure (vicki whathave you), then go the menu and deslect the last two boxes. Back to the collide window, uncheck drape from zero, and click on ignore and and feet. Finally, click calculate simulation..... and wait. You'll slowly see the figure and clothing move, until it hits frame 30, and voila. Beautifully draped figure. I got these easy instructions from mishmashing information from VERY helpful peeps here on Renderosity and from a tute on RDNA. Hopefully this helps anyone else dyamically challenged! I just KNEW it was easier than it looked!

Don't pack it in just yet :) I'm a person of little patience and am a slow learner when it comes to Poser. It takes me awhile to learn any program actually. That's just the way it is for me. Take it one program at a time. Work with Poser, learn it. Then move into making textures. Then start in with dabbling into the 3D programs to make models. As people keep telling me, slow down and learn to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run. There aren't any good books about Poser on the market. But Dr. Geep has some good tutorials. You just need to keep working through tutorials that you find, some more than once while working with a different object using different settings etc in order to get the hang of the dials and buttons and stuff. These programs aren't easy, at least for me they aren't. But don't give up. There are lots of people here that can help you... and me... and anyone else who is new, or newer, to learn. Just pick one program to work with instead of trying to figure them all out at once. You have sensory overload and are feeling overwhelmed and probably a whole lot confused.

Hmmm..... As I read the posts here my initial reaction was to say "Don't quit!" But... You know you better than anyone else does. This is obviously a hobby for you and you are frustrated. I can understand that. I think what you need to decide is wether or not you LIKE to work in 3d. If you do then you should stick with it and, as many have said here, set your goals to small managable chunks. Don't make clothes make a prop. Learn by working in small chunks. If you really must make clothing then you can even do that in small pieces. There is a skirt tutorial over at shaders cafe. Try that. Then do it again. Then do it without the tutorial. Then modify it. Then shade it etc.... There's a bunch of tutorials over there you can look at. I am trying to learn shade myself so I can feel your pain. I am working through the tutorials over at the cafe now and I am going chapter by chapter in the manual. Now, as I said eariler, you really need to decide if you like 3d. Maybe you like 3d but not creating it. If that's the case then don't kill yourself. There is nothing wrong with just hanging out in the galleries either. Whatever the case, I assume this is a hobby. If it is then you should enjoy it. If you dont then find something you do enjoy. Whatever you decide I wish you luck! Eric.. btw I am jealous you have Vue infinite! WOW! What a great prog!

Keep in mind that you're trying to leanr many apps and many jobs all at the same time.. remember, baby steps! The jobs you ar trying to learn (and each takes time and practice) are: modeling uv mapping texture painting figure grouping creating morphs and pozerizing, which includes: regrouping (if needed) rigging texture application/material setting joint adjustment. If each of these tasks took 2 months to learn (for some, it's less, for others, it's more, then you'd be looking at a minimum of 20 months to learn them all! For example, I'm been modelling in lightwave for 15 years, and STILL don't know half what I probably could. Take you time, and rather then working at your final goal, work on something EASY first, and work your way up from there.

For example, I'm been modelling in lightwave for 15 years, and STILL don't know half what I probably could. Max and LightWave for 12 here, and that gets a big Amen from me as well. I haven't even TOUCHED Layout yet, I do everything in Modeler. I keep saying "One of these days ...." I plod along. Eventually I'll get there. No worries! 8-)

Yep, same here... I can manage a render in lightwave, and USED to be able to do a decent setup, but those skillz are from 10 years ago, and layout has added so many new features. It always amazes me though how people talk about modelling being so hard.. with the new tools we now have, modeling is SO much easier then the old days, without subpatching, and heck, without uv maps!

WarAngel..I don't know you at all, but stick with it, i believe you are overwhelming yourself, stick with one, play with it when you feel comfortable with it, move on to another. Myself I make pics and have learned many things, but I have no clue how to model or do "bones" in poser, if you want to learn those get a major feel of the apps you use first. Don't leave and don't give up, even if you just used all of them as a hobby or to pass time. I sure never thought i'd be making pics on my computer, now I sell buttloads of Christmas cards every year. This might come very easy to some but I would have to say that for most of us we have all screamed at our computers, pulled on our hair, ranted and raved, and turned a bit gray (with what hair we have left) over all this but we still keep at it. So stick it out with the rest of us loonies :)

If you're frusterated and tired, just set them aside for a while and come back in a week or two. All except for Vue 5 Infinite that is. Go ahead and give up on that one. How much you want for it?

Plus, it's just like oil painting, or sculpting. You can learn the basics very quickly, but some people never master them, and others hone their craft over years.

All except for Vue 5 Infinite that is. Go ahead and give up on that one. How much you want for it? LOLOL You sly devil! ;-)

It's not that I don't how to do ANYTHING. I can make images, even animations. I understand that. And I buy a LOT of stuff from Renderosity from many of our great merchants. I guess my frustration is when I would like to make my pants do this instead of that, or If only I had this, but nobody makes one. I can texture and such now. That took a while. I just really want to learn to make my own model from scratch. Want to make PhilC, As Shanim, Wusamah and all the others who take the time helping me proud. I want to give back to our community. I will take a break for a few days.

Warangel,

There has been some very good "sage" advice given in this thread. All I can add is "been there, done that". Computer 3D looks so easy on the surface, but it really isn't that easy. It takes time, and lots of it, to learn. I think you're simply trying to learn too much at the same time. Although some of the skills learned in Poser may ease the learning curve in Shade or Vue, they are two very complex and different programs (more complex than poser).

If you really want to model, one thing to consider is that Shade may not fit well with the way you think. Having a modeler that "fits" with your thought processes helps a great deal (speaking from experience here). Pick a simple modeling project, like a house with a couple of doors and a few windows, or a shirt or pair of pants. Try to model it in Shade, then try the same project in a few other programs like Wings 3D (free), Anim8or (free), older versions of software that have come free on 3D World and Computer Arts magazines (Cinema 4D V6se and Carrara 1.1), or demo versions of software. I would recommend trying Cinema 4D (it was the first one I could get my head around), Carrara Studio (has an interface very much like Poser), and Rhinocerous 3D (CAD like nurbs modeler), TrueSpace, and the free modelers. These will give you a very good cross section of different modeling styles/approaches. You'll know right away when you find the software that "fits", because things will just be more intuitive, and easier to do.

I tried 3DS MAX (couldn't do anything in 3DS), Lightwave (worse than 3DS), Rhino, and Blender - thought I'd never be able to make any complex models. Then I gave Cinema 4D a try. I could actually use it without wearing out the manual! But I know people who find C4D very difficult. I also find Carrara very intuitive. All I can say is it's all in your head!

Also, don't expect to be doing great things right away. If you spend 10-15 hours a week, it could easily take a year before you become somewhat "comfortable" with Poser and a modeling program (throw Vue5 Infinite into the mix and give yourelf another 6 months to a year). Keep in mind, that you won't be a 3D Guru after the year (unless your a genius), but you will be able to do many of the basics well.

Good luck, and hang in there. There are a lot of great people here who are willing to help. We've ALL been in your position, and many of us (myself included) are still on the lower end of the loooong learning curve.

Great advice, DustRider. Finding the right modeling program is half the battle. The program I find easy, you might find impossible, and vice-versa. Shade is not for everyone. Try others.

Me, I tried a bunch of demos and free programs, but couldn't do squat until I tried Anim8or. I found that program very intuitive. Hadn't been able to make a thing with any of the others, but with Anim8or, I made something in an afternoon. I'm used to CADD-type programs, so Anim8or was a good fit for me. You might prefer Wings3D or Rhino or MilkShape or Truespace. Find the one that works for you. (And definitely try the demo before you buy!)

I'd second and third all of the above and add that I don't necessarily think that modeling is something that everyone is ever going to be real comfortable with. Like most things if you put enough time and sweat into it you can accomplish something but I'm pretty convinced that some people just don't have the brain wiring to see and intuitively think in 3D space and for them, it's always going to be a struggle. That's not to say it can't be done, but it may be more than one is willing to invest. If that's true then you might be better off concentrating on other aspects of 3D--just my opinion. Having said that, it's quite possible that any of the other things mentioned are the main problem, trying to do too much too soon, not finding the "right" program, just needing a break, etc. If you're determined to do clothing, then perhaps try modifying some existing items or start with simple(er) things like hats or shoes. Above all, don't give up. When you hit a wall in learning anything, the best thing to do is often to just let it go for a while. You may have run yourself into a rut. A lot of times, coming back later will allow you to find a new insight you were missing before. You may have to do that more than once but you will make progress--though it may not be as fast as you'd like :-)

It can also give you a head start for modeling in a 3D program. You can take the meshes it creates into a modeling program to touch them up or modify them further.

And no, I have no connection to Phil, except as a customer. It just seems that at this point, you need some success at making clothing, and this plugin can give it to you.

making clothing conform is not that difficult if you cut up your clothing to match the bones in an existing piece of clothing. regardless of what app you use, just name these the same....ie...hip abdomen chest, etc. you can save them as materials. run them through uvmapper and map and name the parts. import into poser using the free phibuilder program from roy riggs. well, create a hierarchy file with this, and then import that hierarchy file into poser. save it in your library....get out of poser. use wordpad to edit the cr2 file you are going to use...the one from the original piece of clothing that you mimiced the part cuts from. now change two lines near the beginning of the cr2 file that point to the old geometry.....in this place, put the name and location of your new mesh. close this file...copy it and rename it whatever you are calling your shirt. go to the drive where you keep poser and delete the cr2 file you created in your new figure you brought in with phibuilder. copy in the new cr2 that you just made for your new object. this is sort of quick when you get the hang of it. sorry if i didn't explain very well, but am having my first cup of coffee. also, don't set yourself up to want to make something to sell before you get the hang of things. i see so many here jumping right into the marketplace as newbies, and, i believe it is one of the reasons others are having problems with the quality in the store these days. it may be better to practice and become a master than simply a merchant.