I'm sure this has been asked before, but I'm asking it again anyway. And don't think you shouldn't answer just cause you use p4. you're vote still counts (for conforming, obviously). 8-) E.D.

I have no preference...either one works for me :) Doesn't help much does it :(

Message edited on: 04/15/2005 17:45

nope, its fine. no pref is still a vote ;-) keep'em coming. E.D.

Dymanic can give better results but it's too time consuming for a gal with no patience so my vote goes with conforming ;-)

Conforming! :)

Conforming

I'd like to see some dynamic clothing that is as well-made as conforming clothing. Detailed textures, finished edges, seams, etc. I love the way dynamic cloth flows, but often it looks fake, because people don't put the kind of detail into it that conforming clothing often has.

No preference ... it depends upon the desired end result. The so-called "potato sack effect" is a bit of a drawback, but I think we mostly have clothing like that because working with the grouping tools in the cloth room take time, effort, and trial & error. I'd love it if someone could make dynamic robes that look like the Statue of Liberty's draped clothing or those you see in 17th & 19th century European paintings.

conforming

definitely dynamic, though it is a pain. but so is conforming. at least dynamic will cover the figure...

Actually, the best is both worlds. Things like tight fitting jeans, and closely tailored outfits work better as conformers; you don't get into the collision issues of trapping cloth between body parts. But you can't beat dynamic for flow and motion reaction. I'm using dynamic more and more, but randy has a point; most D cloth is just a simple polygon sheath. The details that get worked into conforming hasn't really been done yet. A lot of that has to do with the P5 launch fiasco; hopefully, people will be looking at dynamic as a viable alternative. And the crown will go to the person who combines the two, saving resources and time and still getting the kind of motion reaction only dynamic clothing can give...

Conforming for ease of use, although personally I'd like to see a combination. Conforming in the tight/easily pinched bits, with dynamic drapey details.

If there was such a thing as dynamic clothing with details like edging, seams, the kind of stuff you see on conforming clothing then I'd say dynamic for sure ... even though I'm a P5 hater. (but actually own P6) Conforming is terrific if you want detail and realism. Dynamic is terrific if you want sheets draped over things.

There could be edging, seams, and other detailing. The Cloth Room allows soft and hard decorations, constrained and choreographed groups, etc. And there's always displacement maps.

I think the problem is that the people currently making dynamic clothing are the techo-nerds, not the fashion wonks. ;-)

Hi, well yes, if dynamic was good quality and reliably worked I would use it, having the same outfit in both types is ideal as for some scenes at closeup you use dynamic and ffor quick renders with the person furthur away, use conforming. Shadow net has made a dorm set for V3 that has both types for the same outfit and it's very good. Love esther

Conforming.

Considering I'm still using Poser 4..conforming, please..;)

I use both without preference. As people already said above, there are advantages to each and reasons each works better than the other depending on the circumstance. Even if a considerable number of people weren't still using Poser 4 (and there are a lot of people who are), I still wouldn't abandon conforming clothing if I were a designer.

Both. Each has it's pros and cons. I use what I need, not what is dictated. I quite often turn conforming into dynamic. Great way of making morphs.

Agree with Dale_B. Conformers for rigid clothes. Dynamic shoes or armor is madness. I've converted quite a few commercial conforming clothes to dynamic, with good results. For example the V3 Wizard Robe and the M3 High Elven tunic. I exclusively use these converted ones, since the conformers are a bear to pose well. Conformers for tight clothes? I'm still better off using dynamic cloth. Stockings for instance; a real pokethru pain with conformers, work perfectly as dynamic cloth with all vertices constrained. I agree about the lack of high quality dynamic clothes. The best I've seen are those by hmann, the quality is mainly due to the good texture/bump/displacement maps. I might spend some time this summer to do some detailed dynamic clothes. I'm talking seams, buttons, pockets, hemlines and so on. I've learned a few tricks, time to put them to use.

conforming...just because it's faster with animation...though I Do like the results with dynamic. Hope this will be less of a problem as technology improves over time.

Conforming ;o)

Randy you probably have that right :) Most people aren't techno and fashionable ... it's a left and right brain thing :D Tis the very reason you see those ultra-smart people wearing the most hideous outfits. Is it possible to make a piece of clothing with modelled in edging, seams, buttons, etc, actually dynamic? I read somewhere that it will only take one-sided mesh and screws anything else up really badly.

I haven't actually tried it myself. But people have said you could do rolled edges, pockets, and that sort of thing as soft decorated groups. Buttons are other "hard" trim would be rigid decorated groups. And yes, they would be dynamic.

It is possible. The edging and seams should be soft decorated groups, buttons should be rigid decorated groups. These groups can be closed meshes. One of my first experiments in creating dynamic clothes has buttons on the blouse and a zipper on the skirt, both rigid decorated. The buttons were made using a boolean difference of two cylinders - simple but effective.

hmann uses soft decorated groups for seam effects too.

Soft decorated groups are also very usable to make fastenings without connecting the mesh, allowing for open/close settings within the same clothing item. A trick I learned from Serge Marck.

Message edited on: 04/15/2005 21:14

It's conversations like this that make me understand how little I know.

Is it possible to make a piece of clothing with modelled in edging, seams, buttons, etc, actually dynamic?

It is possible, but the models do have to be selected with care. The main thing it doesn't like is intersecting faces, which can wreak all kinds of havoc and can cause dynamic calculations to slow down or even halt.

Clean, one-sided meshes DO calculate much more quickly, so that may be one reason why people recommend them more readily (I have done that myself). However, it doesn't necessarily mean that anything other than that is impossible ... it just takes a lot more thought and a lot more calculating time to make it work. When you start assigning vertices to the special groups it adds more to the calculation time.

Bevels and similar edges that make clothing look thicker in certain points will have to be assigned to soft decorated groups, as would trimmed edges. Pockets are also for the soft decorated group category if they are not attached to the clothing (otherwise they'll fall on the floor). Rigid decorated group can be used for buttons, pins, clasps, and whatnot. Some of the effects desired for finished looking edges and seams can be compensated for with displacement mapping as well, which would make the construction of the clothing lighter in polygons. Less polygons means less calculation time.

Message edited on: 04/15/2005 21:36

Conforming. Everything I do is for serious post-work and dynamic is too time consuming. I am very worried about this shift to dynamic, good maybe for the hyper-real set but not so good for those of us that need simplicity and SEEP I think.

SPEED that is! Conforming. Conforming. conforming.

I think there is a place for both ... it depends on the clothing as to which I prefer. For flowing clothing (skirts, capes, togas, robes) there is no question that dynamic would make it look more natural. For jumpsuits, pants, tight clothing, skimpy clothing, conforming makes sense.

Conforming

The P6 cloth room is very speedy - a big improvement on P5. I think speed will be less of an issue with dynamic clothing now.

One thing I love about dynamic: it's so easy to fit it to different characters. No more buying a whole new wardrobe every time you get a new figure.

conforming

conforming... I have the attention span & the patience of my 5 year old so dynamic is out for me!!

I've never tried Dynamic clothing, just conforming stuff. So I have nothing to compare it to really. I use conforming because that's all that's been in the clothing packages I have. I did find a site that had an excellent tutorial on working with dynamic clothes and even had the clothing downloads available for you to work along with, but I lost the links when I reformatted my computer.

Possibly it was PoserFashion.net? Good tutorials, and great free clothing (dynamic and conforming).

Conforming.

Conforming.

Quote - Possibly it was PoserFashion.net? Good tutorials, and great free clothing (dynamic and conforming).

Yes! That's it. I was attracted to it because of the 40's style vintage clothing. I kept meaning to try those tutorials from there but didn't get around to it. I'm just finishing up some renders with some vintage textures for MFD that I got here (gorgeous and recommended), so while I'm in the vintage mood, I think I'll take a look at one of those tutorials and see how it goes.

I use each for different things, e.g. conforming for the tight dress but dynamic for the flowing skirt. What I'd really like is a blending of each to give the best of both worlds. I guess I'd want to have a piece of conforming clothing with a "dynamic" texture map, i.e. a 0.0 to 1.0 (0-255) value that rates how dynamic that triangle/vertex/edge should be. I think about a dress, and I'd want it to be conforming around the torso but shift smoothly into full dynamic as it flows off the hips. Or for a man's dress shirt, I'd want it to be conforming around the major joints (armpits and elbows) but reasonably dynamic in how it hangs, especially if it's unbuttoned. You could just paint those values onto a texture channel, much as you would transparency or reflectivity. Then when you told Poser to calculate clothing dynamics, it would constrain those areas that were mostly conforming (to alleviate problems) while allowing the dyanamic portions full freedom up to the cloth's dyanamic settings. One more thing for the P7 wishlist.

You could just paint those values onto a texture channel, much as you would transparency or reflectivity. So you are wanting some sort of vertex map control over the behavior of clothing. Hmmm ... in effect, you kind of, sort of have that right now ... any piece of clothing can have multiple dynamic cloth groups. This is in addition to the soft and rigid decorated groups, and the constrained and choreographed groups. You can select any number of vertices and create separate dynamic groups for them. Then you could assign properties that would make that section of the clothing stiffer than others (for example), by adjusting the dynamic control settings accordingly. That would probably accomplish something similar to what you are describing.

conforming

My preference used to be conforming, but P6 seems to calculate dynamic clothing faster and it gives some very nice results. So I use both types nowadays.

Conforming.

Attached Link: http://www.philc.net/tutorial4.htm

Conforming! Much easier to use.

Conforming clothing - I only have Poser 4!

Dynamic. Conforming clothing just doesn't work as well as it should. A simple 30 frame animation is much faster than tweaking endless dials and magnets to get things to fit properly. Not to mention a lot of the conforming items just sit oddly on the character...especially mens clothing. I have modeled a few items with beveled edges and they worked great in the cloth room.

It is amazing how many other people like conforming. I thought I was the only one. I wonder if conforming dress would flow more naturally if there were all these additional body parts aside from those for the actual limbs... that is articualated fold panels with ERC like easy pose or with those posinging handles like on Sara. Just a thought!

Well-made conforming clothing with lots of morphs and posing handles is great, but still very limited compared to dynamic. You can only use conforming clothing on the figure it was made for. Posing conforming clothing with a lot of morphs is easy, but if you're doing animation, dynamic is still easier. And conforming clothing with a lot of morphs can be a real load on the system resources. Dynamic clothing tends to be lean and mean.

An example of clothing that should have been dynamic: The Dress at DAZ. The way they did it was really klunky, IMO. They made morphs for the dress that matched each of the standard DAZ poses that come with V3 or SP (depending on which figure the dress was for). Sure, it looked great and was easy, but it's awfully limiting.

As i don't do animations, conforming is fine for most stuff, but i surely prefer dynamic skirts, robes and the like, where it's faster to calculate than to spin dials ;-)