Well, youve locked yet another thread today, would you like to explain your reason other than stating it was getting out of hand? Was it the mention of marijuana, or was it the easy women? Perhaps it was the mention of the OP claiming to have been institutionalized? You know, SndCastie, it is people like you who are slowly killing this web site. I realize you may have experienced a rather tidy life and all, including rose-colored glasses, and that you probably think individuals like me are disgusting perverts who have no place in society, let alone Renderosity, but let me explain a few things about me My wife and I each year donate no less than $50,000 to charitable organizations within the metro Portland area, as well as to specific organizations in South Africa. I, on average, donate 300 hours each year to Habitat for Humanity in the way of labor and administrative tasks. My wife donates time and money to various womens causes throughout the western United States. We also host foreign exchange students. We are actively involved in various other forms of community effort, including private funding of programs to help adults overcome illiteracy, and to assist in programs to help at-risk youth. I apologize if you were offended by your quick glance at my personal life, but in reality, everyone has a story to tell and not all stories will be savory to people like you. There was really nothing unsavory about it. Within the generation I grew up in, it was pretty much the norm. I find your indiscriminate use of censuring without intelligently written cause rather alarming. I suspect you do such things out of sheer ignorance; you fail to think before you act. Youre as close to the Kim Jong Il regime as one can get without actually being there. This is not an attack, it is my viewpoint. What Id really like to see happen here is Tim posting a reply, explaining just what the hell it is hes trying to achieve here by allowing you to rampantly run throughout the forums locking threads like a deranged angel with a sword in one hand and a Bible in the other. There must be a motive here, and whatever the motive it sure as hell doesnt mesh with the philosophies of other major art forums. Once again, I apologize if you were somehow morally offended. Now if youll excuse me, Im off to peruse the R rated Renderosity Poser gallery in search of boobs, asses and vulvas while I await Tims reply. I could be there forever.

You need to take it down a few notches, pal. This website is about people co-operating, getting along, acting with some level of maturity and respect for others, and you show no inclination to do any of that.

"...and you show no inclination to do any of that." Oh? Show me where, pal.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=2237165

After I purchased this V2 texture in the RMP, I sent the merchant an e-mail with a screen shot similar to this one. I received an e-mail from the merchant informing me that they were too busy with other projects at the moment, but would upload a fix to the marketplace when they had the time. Well that felt too much like a brush-off, but no biggie...and I kept quiet about it. Needless to say, the merchant landed on my no-buy-from list. Today I remembered this V2 texture, and out of curiosity downloaded it from my purchase history to see if the merchant ever fixed it. As you can see in this render, apparently not. And you know what? This product is still in the marketplace for sale... people are buying it and have been, for three (3) years.

Link attached, image and lock is at the bottom. bonni

I am not a big fan of locking threads, but if they are going to be locked it might be nice if there was actually a valid reason giving for locking them other than "cause I can".

The 2 threads that were locked today weren't even particularly volitile, IMO and no reason was given that I could see.

This appears to be a case of being "drunk on power" and I suspect that while a few members may be cheering, the majority aren't.

I am pretty close to just not coming here anymore, not that the PTB will care since I already refuse to spend any money here based on their uneven enforcment practices that have only gotten worse in the 2 years I've been a member.

However, if stuff like this continues people who actually do spend money here will find more and more reasons to go elsewhere to spend that money.

I imagine this thread will be locked any moment as well, shall we start a pool on how long it takes? ;)

TerraDreamer if you have a problem with me feel free to contact Stacey at StaceyG@renderosity.com as for why I locked this thread is we have explained why we closed down the third OT forum and will not open another one. We gave it 3 tries and they all ended the same with name calling and political wars. This community is for artist and we would rather spend the time helping them then spending all our time breaking up fights. As for the other thread we have already given our views on that subject.

SndCastie
Community Admin

Message edited on: 05/01/2005 23:56

Better lock this one, too, just for good measure. bonni

I would like to know why the thread was locked down containing the image in it. The only explanation of why it was in the thread itself, that I see, is as follows: "38. Re: New Blather Up... by SndCastie on 5/1/05 16:06 Ok this thread is being Locked down. SndCastie Community Admin " Sndcastie I see here, that you have said it was explained three times over, but I must have missed it, so why was it? Perhaps you could tell us a fourth time and we'll all get the message this time.LOL

Re: Once again, SndCastie swings her indiscriminate morality axe by elizabyte on 5/1/05 23:57 Better lock this one, too, just for good measure. bonni Too late! I already got in on it! LOL

The PTB have said they won't host any discussion of an off-site review system. Period. They don't support it, and won't allow people to discuss it (partly because they expect it to turn into a "merchant bashing party", I suspect). As for the image in that thread, well, it WOULD be nice to hear WHY Renderosity is still allowing that product to be sold, and why nobody's allowed to talk about it. listening for the jangling of the keys bonni

The problem with locking threads too quickly is sometimes it doesn't even give folks a chance to respond. There was a huge misunderstanding in one of the locked threads as I assumed my own addition was taken the wrong way. I couldn't even reply quick enough to something that could have been volatile but actually was NOT! Sad that we had to resolve things in IM rather than be able to discuss it further. Makes it look like the thread was locked because of the same reason I thought, yet there wasn't anything to get ruffled about, it was only a misunderstanding and not even that. Sad that as artists who need to express and be unique enough to be ourselves, we cannot even hope to communicate amongst one another not knowing whether in the next moment whatever we may discuss or say may be taen out of context by whomever is on Mount Zeus for the moment and we will be cut off.. Lately it would appear as if the only people on this forum that can have any constant views and expressions that matter here are XENOPHONZ and dialyn, and they certainly are vocal with their freedom to speaketh whenever. Amazing what a little confidence in being allowed to say whatever and whenever you want can nourish while the rest of us have to walk on eggshells or be wary of those timely shackles.

The PTB have said they won't host any discussion of an off-site review system. Period. They don't support it, and won't allow people to discuss it

Well, I really hope that this attitude will bite them in the ass. Nothing is more exciting than something forbidden.

Considering the rather intemperate statements over at PoserPros involving what pieces of anatomy can be inserted where, I can understand why the mods here don't want the same sort of explicit personal attacks. Interrogation and examination by grenade launcher may reveal interesting bits, but it is also extremely destructive to the noncombattants. Pengi has his own site, let him blather away... but does he HAVE to spam all of the other sites as well? Does the entire universe need to be involved in his latest career? Each site is different. Each site has rules which hopefully allow the site to function according to stated purposes. If you don't like the rules of this site, find another which allows you to say what you want, or build your own website. Carolly

Hi bonni, I will get in tough with bshafer about the product they are having problems with. I was not aware of the problem until just now. Thanks for the information. Clint

Clint addressed the product bonni had a question on, other than that, I see no good coming out of this thread. We did explain our position on the "review system" thread and as we thought, it went downhill fast. This new thread in the Poser Forum was nothing more than a thread of the same subject with a different title. When we lock a thread it is done for a reason and if another gets started on the same subject the chances are great that it will go down the same negative path, then it will be locked as well. Stacey Community Manager

Attached Link: Whack!

I didn't ask you to open an OT forum, I asked you why you chose to close the thread in the link above. You stated the thread was getting out of hand. I would like you to point out specifically where the thread was getting out of hand, rather than use your typical canned response.

"We gave it 3 tries and they all ended the same with name calling and political wars."

Then I submit you're doing something wrong. As much as I can't stand DAZ, they at least use intelligence when moderating a forum, and because of that, they receive far better respect from the forum members.

"This community is for artist and we would rather spend the time helping them [spend money] then spending all our time breaking up fights."

I visit three forums here on a regular basis; Terragen, Poser and Vue. It is a rare day that I see a moderator helping an artist. What I DO see is forum members helping other forum members with specific technical questions. I will add that I see more technical assistance from the coordinators than I do forum mods. As a matter of fact, I know of one moderator at one of the forums I mentioned go TEN DAYS without showing up to keep the ball rolling and help create enthusiasm within. The coordinator there does a much better job.

IMHO, the duty of a Renderosity moderator is to quickly censor content that may either compromise the revenue of this web site, or to censor content that the moderator may find personally unappealing, without giving thought to those currently participating. In other words, if you don't like it, then you're going to lock it, even if there is no conflict. It is an abuse of power, as well as the censure of criticism of certain products sold here.

"Lately it would appear as if the only people on this forum that can have any constant views and expressions that matter here are XENOPHONZ and dialyn, and they certainly are vocal with their freedom to speaketh whenever."

Think Sheep.

You know, SndCastie, it is people like you who are slowly killing this web site.

Show me any real evidence that this site is being "slowly killed" -- something beyond mere personal anecdotes -- and then I might consider your premise.

Otherwise, it's just hyperbolic "blather" -- a tres chic word these days.

If anything, this site just keeps right on growing.

Man, oh man -- I wish that I had a nickel for every hysterically dire prediction of Rendo's impending doom that I've heard over the years. I'd be a very rich man today.

This ain't your daddy's Rendo anymore. Better get used to it. Because it's not going back again.

Sure, I'll pop into places where the unending fight still goes on.

But as I get older, I'm finding that constant teenage-level squabbling just doesn't entertain me as it once did.

I've come to develop an appreciation for the muse of the locked thread. It's a true art form. And it requires a certain level of balanced expertise to handle it properly. It isn't easy to do.

Hey -- even Tiger Woods has had his off days.

The people that run Rendo are just that -- people. Not a bunch of evil tyrants out to spoil the joy of describing unsupervised adolescent behavior to us.

BTW -- I've seen the "joy" created in the later years of the lives of the girls who once "knew what to expect" when they were younger.

Boys can usually walk away from the long-term effects. At least in the "short-term long-term".

But girls usually can't. In spite of certain PC thinking to the contrary..........

Regret isn't an easy thing to deal with 20 years later. It can eat away at a person.

But the boys can always be proud of what they did. It was fun. And a great source of braggin' rights. Notches on the 'ol gun.

Like tears.

Adult matters should be handled by adults. Not by kids. And teenagers are kids.

Note to the admins at Rendo:

Lock away.

Think Sheep. He don't know me very well, do he........?

Can someone find the off switch for TerraScreamer please.

Lately it would appear as if the only people on this forum that can have any constant views and expressions that matter here are XENOPHONZ and dialyn, and they certainly are vocal with their freedom to speaketh whenever.
Amazing what a little confidence in being allowed to say whatever and whenever you want can nourish while the rest of us have to walk on eggshells or be wary of those timely shackles.

I (and others) don't have any special privileges around here. And Rendo doesn't always do what I think that they should.

Sometimes, I even disagree strongly with something that the administration has done.

Big deal. My day isn't ruined if a contentious thread gets locked or deleted. Or if the TOS gets changed to answer some new brouhaha du jour or other.

It's just that the admins can expect certain of us to be.......relatively reasonable. Within limits, anyway.

It doesn't require a lot to grasp the difference.

If one can learn how to disagree without being a total "forum jerk" in the process...........

Treat people with at least a tiny amount of respect. Including admins. Admins are people.

You tend to get what you give.

Amazing how it works that way.........

Oh, and BTW again........

I wonder how good it would feel if one of the girls that "knows what to expect" was one's daughter.......?

Just a thought.

;|

At least now we know. Anybody who has the impudence to disagree with Terra is a "sheep".

Not a very smart way to win friends and influence people. But I can think of one way that would promote Terra to legendary status: donate $50,000 to the merchants here, so they can distribute some of their excellent items to the less wealthy members here.

Baa Baa Baa Baa.... I have had the pleasure of working with SndCastie, and I have never known her to be indiscriminate. You may not see all the thinking that goes behind decisions around here, but I do know SndCastie is a thoughtful person. It is absolutely impossible to please everyone in a place this large. The slippery slope is when you try to please one person at the expense of many people. The majority of the conversation probably doesn't happen on these forums. We on the forums don't have the big picture. Hugs to SndCastie and the administrators, moderators and coordinators. I admire your calm, and would not want your task. Thank you for continuing to do an excellent job. I may not agree with all the decisions...that's not the point. I respect the fact that you make a decision and stand by your people is something I don't see often in these pandering times.

Thank you dialyn I enjoyed working with you too. :O) SndCastie

Thank you dialyn. You are absolutely correct about Sandy, she is a very thoughtful person and does an outstanding job. Stacey

"Show me any real evidence that this site is being "slowly killed" -- something beyond mere personal anecdotes -- and then I might consider your premise" there are quite a few "older" members of this site who have either left, or, for the most part merely "lurk". granted, many of them were strongly opinionated. however, these same folks were highly creative, and used to freely help others in forums. personally, i think by losing them rendo has lost a vast knowledge base. and, that is not just in the poser forum....many in the lw community no longer actively participate. rendo seems to be headed in the "all newbie, all the time" direction....from the forums to the marketplace. that cannot be good in the long term for this place. so, for those of you I don't see much of anymore....a cheery little.... Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

Lol to Poppi! Talk about popping you just made my boobs pop out with laughing at your pops! I really do have to get a new bra.

sigh....there was a time when i was always poppin! :*)

there are quite a few "older" members of this site who have either left, or, for the most part merely "lurk".

I don't know exactly how many "quite a few" is.....but I can see the surfer counter at the top of my webpage.

It's not getting smaller. It does, however -- seem to be headed in the opposite direction. Much, much larger than it was in the old days.

In addition to which: people always come and go. It's simply a matter of natural attrition. Some people move on to greener pastures. Others get bored with the entire Poser hobby and quit. Still others disappear for who-knows-what reasons.

If you were able to get a "time-warp modem" and visit this website as it will look five years into the future, then you will not recognize many of the names on the rolls..........

As our grandparents learned in their day: change is inevitable. As is a turnover in membership through the years. It's often sad to other long-term members -- but there it is.

Kind of like the place where the old neighborhood dime store used to stand. Now it's gone.

All that I can go by is the empirical evidence that can actually be verified and quantified.

Renderosity isn't shrinking. Perhaps the day will come when it will.......but not today. And certainly not when it's compared with other sites that have chosen a different management philosophy.

Not that the methods of those other sites are invalid.

But one can only judge results by results. Not by what one's ideology insists "should" be the case.

Others get bored with the entire Poser hobby and quit. Still others disappear for who-knows-what reasons. no, the folks i am thinking of participate at other sites...and show up, here, occasionally.... more is not necessarily "better". what i see is more and more newbies...and, a slew of folks who had the "know how" that are missing. actually, a few of them have been a bit vocal over the "blather" threads that got locked...so, they are just lurking, here, i guess.

Everyone had to be a new person at one time or another. From the new people come the future experts. What's wrong with that? I'm personally hoping Dr. Geep clones himself so he continues with us eternally.

I second that dialyn :O)

no, the folks i am thinking of participate at other sites...and show up, here, occasionally....

Then that's good for the other sites.

I have nothing against other sites. Or against the people that frequent them. I pop in from time to time myself.

However -- a couple of dozen individuals -- no matter how skilled -- don't come anywhere near representing a major portion of this site's membership.

Even one or two hundred departing would have a negliable impact overall.

Not that anyone needs to go away. But if they choose to do so, then that's their option.

more is not necessarily "better".

That depends upon one's point of view.

If I were a site owner, then I'd say that bigger was better.

As for "helpful" and "knowledgeable" -- we've got plenty of 'em right here.

Dr. Geep being one famous example.

But there are many others.

So, we lack for nothing from that perspective. Message edited on: 05/02/2005 17:29

Don't sell 'em short, Poppi. There are plenty of knowledgeable experts here, generous in their advice and help. However, you (or others) have often used that refrain about the old pros and the annoying, uppity newbies in a way that implies you guys think some are more equal than others. Why not give the newbies the benefit of the doubt? Give them a chance to learn, to show their stuff, without any baggage of "the good old days" or any guilt-trips to try to put them in their place.

I wish to thank all of you who have stood up for this site. I know our members are some of the best around who are willing to give of their time to help other members in what ever they do. So Please accept this Thank you and a Big Hug to all of you. SndCastie Community Admin

Things have changed though. I remember when people would say "thanks" when you spent the time to help them. People don't bother anymore. They take the help and walk as if you owed it to them.
The poser forum used to be more comunity friendly but thanks to one person, no more personal discussions, period. So yes, it has changed.

Crossposted with you SndCastie, I do with the admins would realize sometimes that those of us who have been here awhile and appear to disagree with the different changes really do want the same things. To make this site better. Some changes are not for the better.

I remember when people would say "thanks" when you spent the time to help them. People don't bother anymore.

I've experienced this. In real life as well as in the forums.

People are rude. And sometimes ungrateful. And sometimes vicious.

I don't think that Rendo holds a monopoly on these negative human traits.

But I think that they are attempting to do certain things to keep as much of a lid on it as possible.

That's a pretty sweeping generalization. I have had people thank me for my sad little bits of information. It's not everyone here that is thoughtless...just some. Not all. Not everyone is new. Not everyone is old. Not everyone is impolite. Not everyone is courteous. The forum can have a different tone from day to day, hour to hour. It's not all good, but it's not all bad. Has it occurred to any of you that maybe the biggest change isn't in the forum but in you? I know I've had a lot of changes in the last year that are reflected in how much I will (or won't) participate in the forums. It isn't the forum that is the difference. It's how I come to it. Just a thought.

Newbies are fine, but there's something to be said when a site and it's new vocal members no longer cherish devotion and are actually very vocal about it. There is a great loss. Value. Kendra above says it all too well. "Some changes are not for the better." You newbies may not see it, and the folks running the site are too busy to care and most of them are actually new as well, so perhaps they themselves feel that same attitude XENOPHONZ and dialyn seem to have and probably just want to follow instructions and do what have to. *********************************************************** This site took years to build on old ideas. It may take years to fizzle with this new attitude of "I don't care or give a damn" and "me, me, me is really all that matters and as long as I am here, what do I care who leaves or who comes." A big part of this place has already died when a site is basically dependant upon it's newbies with attitude and and old lurkers who no longer participate except as forgotten clones. There's very little substance left except for what money can buy, and even that seems questionable at times according to some blathermouths.

"Has it occurred to any of you that maybe the biggest change isn't in the forum but in you?" Yes. For certain there is a BIG change in far too many people. Just ask all the folks who have lost their inspirations. ******************************************************** Explains why many of us have no galleries.

Yes it took years to build and I have been here since the begining and have watched it grow. I have not locked down this topic as we have been discussing it in a civil manor without name calling lets keep it that way. SndCastie Community Admin.

so perhaps they themselves feel that same attitude XENOPHONZ and dialyn seem to have and probably just want to follow instructions and do what have to.

I can't speak for others -- but I can speak for myself.

I've never been a follower. As some can attest -- to their dismay.

But I do have enough mental acuity to recognize when and where I happen to agree with someone else.

And I agree with much of what Renderosity has done for themselves. Not all of it, but the majority of it.

Because I have a grasp of their reasoning.

An agreement between allies is not the same thing as a leader/follower type of relationship.

Attempts are often made to somehow lessen or to invalidate my positions by bringing in the spurious accusation of "doing what one is told".

At least in my case, you have no concept of just what an utterly ridiculous charge that is.............

There are other types of sites with other types of purposes. Those sites cater to a different demographic.

So those sites set things up in such a way as to appeal to their target demographic.

It's purely a business matter. And not a matter of pure ideology.

It may take years to fizzle with this new attitude of "I don't care or give a damn" and "me, me, me is really all that matters and as long as I am here, what do I care who leaves or who comes."

Once again -- THERE IS NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING "FIZZLING".

Other than in the wishful thinking of some.

As for "all that matters is me".......I don't really follow where that one is coming from. I confess that it's somewhat of a mystery.

The only individuals that I see jumping up and down and yelling "ME! ME! ME!" are those persons that show a desire for nothing but their own way.

And not those of us who believe in following the House rules......of whoever's house we happen to visit.

It's the difference between an adult disagreement and a childish tantrum.

The child is the one that screams when he/she doesn't get their own way.........or (in some cases) adult children are known to do a lot of screaming, too.

I have no desire to see this site end or reach any demise, and I know most older members feel the same. Perhaps that is why some of us are trying, attempting to show some 'concern'. I mayself am not that old here, but I have seen enough and heard enough and researched enough just following some threads and run into my own share of disappointments i my time here to establish what is being 'writing on the wall.' I also don't wish to call anyone any names, last thing on my mind, so the 'threat of lock and key' was not necessary. Merely having a discussion. Be nice to be allowed to have more civil ones like these without dark clouds overhead ready to strike.

"There's very little substance left except for what money can buy, and even that seems questionable at times according to some blathermouths." Sorry if I took this the wrong way just wanted to make sure we stay on track here. SndCastie

I don't know exactly how many "quite a few" is.....but I can see the surfer counter at the top of my webpage. It's not getting smaller. That means absolutely nothing, that counters been saying the same thing for the past five or so years I have been a member here under one alias or another.

Logging out for a few hours.

It will be interesting to come back and see where this discussion has gone in the meantime.

Perhaps that is why some of us are trying, attempting to show some 'concern'.

I have no problems with that. Or with the expression of those concerns in the forums.

Where this activity leads to difficulties is when people are totally unwilling to accept anything but their own way. As if they owned the site themselves -- and should therefore be writing site policy.

that counters been saying the same thing for the past five or so years

I don't have the time to do this at the moment -- but there are several independent website traffic-tracking entities/companies that have nothing to do with Renderosity. But you can compare Rendo's traffic with that of other Poser-related websites.

It can be instructive to check these independent figures out.

The only site that's even close to Renderosity in terms of traffic is DAZ.

In addition to which: I don't know what counter you've been seeing over the past five years -- but it sure isn't the same one that I've been seeing.

"Sorry if I took this the wrong way just wanted to make sure we stay on track here." I can always hope I am wrong about the 'substance' part, but the 'blathermouths' part comes from threads called 'blather ups' I've been following that have been getting locked. I voiced my own concerns on one before it was disposed of, I don't necessarily agree with the methodology and think it's a major form of seeking attention at the price of others by the blatherer. There are better ways to attain quality and substance in things we buy than to witchunt and tar and feather a few marketers while they are not looking. Just as there are better ways to have a more relaxed forum that people can come to without feeling uneasy and like they are being chapperoned every moment. There's a always a few bad apples. Why do so many have to pay and be made an example of because of those few. I disagree with dialyn. It is not the people that have changed at all; the forum has changed and the forum is trying to change the people with it to conform to those changes, or else. Forgetting and taking away so much of what the people enjoy along the way is what is sadly missing. Sometimes I think one main misunderstanding here is the moment some of us speak of something perhaps not being right or have a differing viewpoint that is not wanted to be heard about, it is quickly misundertood.

You can, of course, disagree with me. And if you don't want to believe you've changed, then bless be you for stopping the aging process. But you can not speak for me....and I have changed. And the reason I took down my gallery has nothing to do with changes on the forums, and everything to do with changes in myself. Good night all. Have fun.